Welfare drug-screen goes into effect

[rushmc 23]

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1) Then make the testing random. Pretty simple, huh?

I'm curious how it would work to do random testing in this situation. With workers, they're generally at work five days a week, so it's easy to randomly send them to do a test while they're already at work. I don't know a whole lot about how the welfare system works, but I sort of doubt that there is anywhere near that much contact with the recipients, which would make it pretty difficult to do effective random testing.

Anyone who has a CDL has to go through random drug tests. No criminal implications with a positive test, just the loss of the CDL for a year (first time caught) Which also means loss of job where I work. Have to have a CDL in many positions

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Illegal search and seizure, no probable cause for the search of one's person.

For starters....

CDL holders are subject to random testings as required by the feds. How is this different?

CDL and a positive test means loss of CDL (commercial drivers license).

Positive test on welfare, loss of welfare.

Easy stuff

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Rdutch 0]

Florida does some things right, not many of them but I like this law. My brother has been a long time food stamp and welfare recipient, and he now has to do comunity service to pay for his food stamps and check. The parks and city stuff in his town have never looked so good. He gets all the stuff from the state because he claims he cant find a job, now basically he works for the state at a much lower rate than he would make if he actually tried to find work.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[Amazon 7]

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Florida does some things right, not many of them but I like this law. My brother has been a long time food stamp and welfare recipient, and he now has to do comunity service to pay for his food stamps and check. The parks and city stuff in his town have never looked so good. He gets all the stuff from the state because he claims he cant find a job, now basically he works for the state at a much lower rate than he would make if he actually tried to find work.

I like that idea... I like it a lot. The welfare state of mind must be removed at all costs.... no work.. no pay.

It is goat fuck stupid to pay stupid women to have babies who will also be supid fucks. They need to set up group day care so they all can work at SOMETHING and instill some pride in earning a paycheck.. not sitting on their ass all day waiting for their next baby daddy to show up so they can get a pay raise in 9 months

[freethefly 6]

I really have no problem with the test as long as it is used in the manner that the University of Michigan suggest that it should be used. As their study has shown mental illness is a more prominent problem. It should be used to screen and treat. It should not be used to screen and boot people out onto the street creating an even more serious problem, such as mentally ill homeless people wandering the streets aimlessly.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Amazon 7]

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I really have no problem with the test as long as it is used in the manner that the University of Michigan suggest that it should be used. As their study has shown mental illness is a more prominent problem. It should be used to screen and treat. It should not be used to screen and boot people out onto the street creating an even more serious problem, such as mentally ill homeless people wandering the streets aimlessly.

Coool.... treatment concentration hospitals... can we send all the alcoholics there too??


Oh wait.... didn't they close those kinds of places as a cost savings too??

[Shotgun 1]

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1) Then make the testing random. Pretty simple, huh?

I'm curious how it would work to do random testing in this situation. With workers, they're generally at work five days a week, so it's easy to randomly send them to do a test while they're already at work. I don't know a whole lot about how the welfare system works, but I sort of doubt that there is anywhere near that much contact with the recipients, which would make it pretty difficult to do effective random testing.

Anyone who has a CDL has to go through random drug tests. No criminal implications with a positive test, just the loss of the CDL for a year (first time caught) Which also means loss of job where I work. Have to have a CDL in many positions

To be clear, when I said effective random testing, I'm talking about testing that can basically happen at any time. For workers, that means at any time throughout their work week, throughout the year, someone pops in with a cup and has the worker do a test with no chance to go get something out of the locker or whatever. With a welfare recipient, I think their contact is limited to once or twice a month, and it is generally scheduled, even if on short notice. A scheduled drug test is pretty easy to get around for all but the most severe addicts, either by short-term abstinence or by masking substances.

So it seems to me that now the taxpayers will still be funding illegal drug use (for the small percent of welfare recipients who actually use illegal drugs), but they will also be paying millions for drug testing and possibly even the very things that are used to get around the drug tests.

While I sort of agree with the idea on principle (though I think most drugs should be legal anyway), I just don't see it being cost-effective or actually solving any problems.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Florida does some things right, not many of them but I like this law. My brother has been a long time food stamp and welfare recipient, and he now has to do comunity service to pay for his food stamps and check. The parks and city stuff in his town have never looked so good. He gets all the stuff from the state because he claims he cant find a job, now basically he works for the state at a much lower rate than he would make if he actually tried to find work.

I like that idea... I like it a lot. The welfare state of mind must be removed at all costs.... no work.. no pay.

It is goat fuck stupid to pay stupid women to have babies who will also be supid fucks. They need to set up group day care so they all can work at SOMETHING and instill some pride in earning a paycheck.. not sitting on their ass all day waiting for their next baby daddy to show up so they can get a pay raise in 9 months

Well I'll be buggered...we agree on something!
Happy 4th of July!

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Shotgun 1]

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My brother has been a long time food stamp and welfare recipient, and he now has to do comunity service to pay for his food stamps and check. The parks and city stuff in his town have never looked so good. He gets all the stuff from the state because he claims he cant find a job, now basically he works for the state at a much lower rate than he would make if he actually tried to find work.

I think that is a great idea. That way people are not getting "something for nothing," and it's better for everyone involved.

[Southern_Man 0]

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With a welfare recipient, I think their contact is limited to once or twice a month, and it is generally scheduled, even if on short notice. A scheduled drug test is pretty easy to get around for all but the most severe addicts, either by short-term abstinence or by masking substances.

So it seems to me that now the taxpayers will still be funding illegal drug use (for the small percent of welfare recipients who actually use illegal drugs), but they will also be paying millions for drug testing and possibly even the very things that are used to get around the drug tests.

While I sort of agree with the idea on principle (though I think most drugs should be legal anyway), I just don't see it being cost-effective or actually solving any problems.

People refer to a variety of government entitlement programs as "welfare" so it depends on which particular program a person is on but generally eligibility determinations are conducted every 6 months or yearly. Honestly the caseloads are so large that the case workers don't have time to see people more often then that (although some specific programs have more stringent requirements). Also at this point a lot of the benefits are distributed electronically through direct deposit or through an EBT card, further reducing direct contact needs.

I agree with you in general, I am not opposed on principle to the drug testing for welfare recipients but I suspect it may just be an added cost to facilitate political grandstanding.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[freethefly 6]

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Coool.... treatment concentration hospitals... can we send all the alcoholics there too??

Alcoholism appears to be a greater problem amongst long term recipients. Treating the problem would do far greater good than simply dumping the problem off on skid row.

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Oh wait.... didn't they close those kinds of places as a cost savings too??

Yes, they did. Under Reagan's administration they closed treatment facilities and dumped severely ill/alcoholics/drug addicts on the streets. Many ended up in prisons, skid row, and/or potters field. It created a even greater problem for law enforcement and the general safety for the people in the communities that the homeless typically gravitate towards. It was also a boom in profits for the prison industry. All of which is paid for by the taxpayers at an even greater cost than welfare and treatment would had cost. You can't break a leg and then hop around on the good leg hoping that the bad leg will never be a problem. Dumping people with severe problems on the street will eventually cost more than the original problem. If no fix is in the plan then solely testing and dumping will do nothing but put a poorly made bandage on a broken leg. Eventually, society will have to address the greater problem that has been created.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Alcoholism appears to be a greater problem ...

Once again you need reminded....consumption of alcohol is not illegal for those who are no longer considered a minor. If you don't believe me you can check for yourself.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

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Alcoholism appears to be a greater problem ...

Once again you need reminded....consumption of alcohol is not illegal for those who are no longer considered a minor. If you don't believe me you can check for yourself.

What do you think is the percentage of criminal activity and mayhem in our society that can be directly attributable to drunken assholes or at least those under the influence.. robberies... domestic violence... vehicular murder .... and the beat goes on.

I wonder what percentage of the prison population is there for things they did while they were drunk.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Alcoholism appears to be a greater problem ...

Once again you need reminded....consumption of alcohol is not illegal for those who are no longer considered a minor. If you don't believe me you can check for yourself.

What do you think is the percentage of criminal activity and mayhem in our society that can be directly attributable to drunken assholes or at least those under the influence.. robberies... domestic violence... vehicular murder .... and the beat goes on.

I wonder what percentage of the prison population is there for things they did while they were drunk.

I have no argument about that. Those connections are very well known and documented.
But alcohol is still legal.
Weed and crack are not.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

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I have no argument about that. Those connections are very well known and documented.
But alcohol is still legal.
Weed and crack are not.

So you are good with all the drunks on welfare buying booze instead of food for their children ... got it

[freethefly 6]

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Alcoholism appears to be a greater problem ...

Once again you need reminded....consumption of alcohol is not illegal for those who are no longer considered a minor. If you don't believe me you can check for yourself.

So... you are fine with alcoholics drinking away welfare checks because alcohol is legal?

By the way, I do not drink nor do I smoke pot. As I have stated, I am fine with the program if it is implemented in the manor that the U of M suggest that it be used. It would be wrong and costly, overall, to solely screen and create a far greater problem putting those with mental, alcohol (two greater problems not being addressed), and drug addiction (the lesser problem) out on the street homeless. Sooner or later the growing homeless population will have to addressed at a greater cost to the taxpayer.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[rushmc 23]

Yes

I agree with the testing in principle

But to your point, whether it works or not is a whole different thread

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[flashvortx 0]

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Florida does some things right, not many of them but I like this law. My brother has been a long time food stamp and welfare recipient, and he now has to do comunity service to pay for his food stamps and check. The parks and city stuff in his town have never looked so good. He gets all the stuff from the state because he claims he cant find a job, now basically he works for the state at a much lower rate than he would make if he actually tried to find work.

I like that idea... I like it a lot. The welfare state of mind must be removed at all costs.... no work.. no pay.

It is goat fuck stupid to pay stupid women to have babies who will also be supid fucks. They need to set up group day care so they all can work at SOMETHING and instill some pride in earning a paycheck.. not sitting on their ass all day waiting for their next baby daddy to show up so they can get a pay raise in 9 months

First paragraph = intelligent. Second paragraph = the rant of a bumbling idiot.

It sounds like you knocked someone up and are pissed that you have to pay for the kid now

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I have no argument about that. Those connections are very well known and documented.
But alcohol is still legal.
Weed and crack are not.

So you are good with all the drunks on welfare buying booze instead of food for their children ... got it

On moral principles....no.
On legal principles....yes.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Alcoholism appears to be a greater problem ...

Once again you need reminded....consumption of alcohol is not illegal for those who are no longer considered a minor. If you don't believe me you can check for yourself.

So... you are fine with alcoholics drinking away welfare checks because alcohol is legal?

By the way, I do not drink nor do I smoke pot. As I have stated, I am fine with the program if it is implemented in the manor that the U of M suggest that it be used. It would be wrong and costly, overall, to solely screen and create a far greater problem putting those with mental, alcohol (two greater problems not being addressed), and drug addiction (the lesser problem) out on the street homeless. Sooner or later the growing homeless population will have to addressed at a greater cost to the taxpayer.

In response to your first question...see my response to Amazon.
In response to the rest of your post....why should the government concern itself with supporting everybody who can't or won't get a job? I know it sounds harsh and uncaring, but stop giving handouts to everyone that asks for one and you'll suddenly find people really can find work.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[quade 4]

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I know it sounds harsh and uncaring, but stop giving handouts to everyone that asks for one and you'll suddenly find people really can find work.

In a normal economy you might be right. However, today, that's simply not the case.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Belgian_Draft 0]

I was out riding this weekend. put about 350 miles on the bike.
I tried to count how many 'Help Wanted" signs I saw.
I stopped counting at 100.
Sure, most weren't 30k+ jobs. But it would sure beat the hell out of unemployment.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[freethefly 6]

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In response to your first question...see my response to Amazon.

Legal or not, tax dollars are being used for other than living expenses. That is a slap to the face of the taxpayer. Why should Joe Taxpayer support those who would rather drink all day? The same goes for people who rather use drugs. Tax dollars should not support addictions to alcohol, drugs, food... Tax dollars should be used to screen recipients and then to treat those who are able to get well enough to go back to work. Simply dumping people who have substance abuse/mental health problems onto the streets will create a greater problem for the agencies (namely, the police departments) that will, ultimately, have to address the problem. They will need a bigger budget in order to do so. We all know how Reagan's policy to dump the mentally ill onto the streets went. Increase in crime, overworked police, clogged courts, and overcrowding in the prison system.
It's a good idea if used to treat the problems that got them there in the first place. It's a bad idea if all it does is put people out onto the street.

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In response to the rest of your post....why should the government concern itself with supporting everybody who can't or won't get a job? I know it sounds harsh and uncaring, but stop giving handouts to everyone that asks for one and you'll suddenly find people really can find work.

The government should not support those who flat out refuse to work. There will always be that small section in society that prefer skid row. On the other-hand, we, as a people, have a responsibility to support those who cannot work, or who want to work, but have problems that are barriers. Again, I am for the testing if the results are used to identify the barriers and to get over those barriers. I am against any program that will push a problem off on another department. There is no cost savings in doing such.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[quade 4]

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I was out riding this weekend. put about 350 miles on the bike.
I tried to count how many 'Help Wanted" signs I saw.
I stopped counting at 100.
Sure, most weren't 30k+ jobs. But it would sure beat the hell out of unemployment.

Even if I believed you, which BTW I don't because who the fuck counts shit like that, what you're saying is you found 1 job every 3.5 miles.

I don't know where the heck you live, but the population density around my house is a bit higher than that and wouldn't even begin to put a dent in the unemployment rate.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

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Florida does some things right, not many of them but I like this law. My brother has been a long time food stamp and welfare recipient, and he now has to do comunity service to pay for his food stamps and check. The parks and city stuff in his town have never looked so good. He gets all the stuff from the state because he claims he cant find a job, now basically he works for the state at a much lower rate than he would make if he actually tried to find work.

I like that idea... I like it a lot. The welfare state of mind must be removed at all costs.... no work.. no pay.

It is goat fuck stupid to pay stupid women to have babies who will also be supid fucks. They need to set up group day care so they all can work at SOMETHING and instill some pride in earning a paycheck.. not sitting on their ass all day waiting for their next baby daddy to show up so they can get a pay raise in 9 months

First sentence = intelligent. Second sentence = the rant of a bumbling idiot.

It sounds like you knocked someone up and are pissed that you have to pay for the kid now

Your post... FAIL... Fuck... can you even read?????

But that was some funny shit.... DUDE.... reallly... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA