Welfare drug-screen goes into effect

[rushmc 23]

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The problem is simple.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/82/275200442_0fd71ec3c3.jpg?v=0

Too many pigs, not enough tits.

And the many at the tits are on the flip side of the coin

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tits%20On%20A%20Boar

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Studies have shown that in the long run testing does very little as illicit drug use is not an overall problem. Alcohol abuse and mental health is a far more serious problem than the person who smokes the occasional joint. Marijuana is the more prevalent illicit drug of choice. Alcohol is the more common drug amongst welfare recipients. Mental health is the more common barrier to work.

http://www.fordschool.umich.edu/research/pdf/drugtest.pdf

http://www.npc.umich.edu/publications/policy_briefs/brief02/

The cost to implement, more likely, will exceed the benefit. Greater focus on mental health, alcohol abuse, education, and transportation would greatly reduce welfare recipients than screening solely for illicit drugs.

So we just continue giving money to people who refuse to abide by the laws of the same entity that gives them that money.
Real freakin' smart.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[lawrocket 3]

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Anybody want to take bets on whether or not this will be found as unconstitutional?

It's not going to have a hard time. Paul - you have to pee in a cup to get a private pilot's license and there's no challenge for that. This is the same thing.

You don't want a pee test then don't apply for the program. Now, if people are gettin arrested for it, that's a different story.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Bad news for pot dealers, good news for Meth and crack merchants.
Substitution to drugs that clear the system faster has been the effect of drug screening in the oil patch.

By the way, what happens to the people who fail the drug tests? Do they go get jobs now that their welfare is cut off? More likely they resort to crime.

[freethefly 6]

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What about Smokers and drinkers and fat people and .................................

Smoking and drinking and eating are legal. Doing something about the welfare problem is better than sitting and watching it happen. This probably isn't the best way of dealing with it, but it's a start.

Tobacco, alcohol, and obesity problems far exceed any problems associated with illicit drug use amongst welfare recipients (namely marijuana.) So, you're fine with tax dollars paying for obese alcoholics puffing away on cigarettes all day because these 3 biggest killers are legal? Yet, you balk about someone on welfare who might smoke a joint? (Note that marijuana has never killed anyone.) I find it hard to believe that the high-end drugs such as cocaine is prevalent amongst welfare recipients. From what I've gathered, alcohol is the drug of choice and is the cause of a host of problems associated with mental illness. Resources would be put to better use to screen for those who may be using alcohol and for those with mental illness.
They should also reduce the amount that an obese person on welfare can receive for food. The saving should then be put towards a program to promote a more healthy lifestyle.
A more sensible approach would be to not directly deposit funds into a persons account, but to make direct payments to landlords, utilities, as well as other expenses. If a person drives an automobile, issue a gas card. If not, issue a bus pass. This has been done with the food stamp program it can be done in other programs as well.
If the concern is that welfare recipients are using the money for other than living expenses, take the cash out of their hands and use electronic transfers. Implement programs that promotes healthy eating. No fast foods, alcohol, and tobacco. Taking the cash out of their hands would do far greater good to put them on the road to being self-reliant.
Solely testing for drugs, which I suspect would pop more for marijuana than any other substance, will do very little. It would more likely create more homeless. It would do nothing to address the mental health problems that keep a large number of welfare recipients from getting gainful employment.
It is more of a "Look at me! I'm tough on welfare abuse!" It does nothing to address the more visible problems of mental illness, alcohol abuse, and obesity amongst those who are long term welfare recipients.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[freethefly 6]

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So we just continue giving money to people who refuse to abide by the laws of the same entity that gives them that money.
Real freakin' smart.

This coming from someone who has stated he has an extreme hatred for the courts (read into that, hence the law!)
Learn to comprehend what another states. I said nothing about "giving" money to welfare recipients.

Oh, and yes, I am real freaking smart! My GPA in high school was 4.0. In college, it was 3.92.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[airtwardo 7]

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Bad news for pot dealers, good news for Meth and crack merchants.

~~at least THEY have an income!



Substitution to drugs that clear the system faster has been the effect of drug screening in the oil patch.

~~doesn't work with random testing, and really doesn't work with a long time abuser on scheduled testing.


By the way, what happens to the people who fail the drug tests? Do they go get jobs now that their welfare is cut off? More likely they resort to crime.

~~yeah, the government should pay people who break the law, NOT to commit 'other' crimes...huh?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[sacex250 0]

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Anybody want to take bets on whether or not this will be found as unconstitutional?

It's not going to have a hard time. Paul - you have to pee in a cup to get a private pilot's license and there's no challenge for that. This is the same thing.

You don't want a pee test then don't apply for the program. Now, if people are gettin arrested for it, that's a different story.

You can put me down for "unconstitutional." This is nothing but political grandstanding, so some politicians can put their hands up in the air and blame it on the courts when it's all said and done.

Denying government services to someone based on a "status offense" is pretty much going to get steamrolled by the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses. It's not even close to the same thing as getting an FAA medical certificate.

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[bqmassey 0]

Personally, I don't have a problem with people doing drugs. An adult should be able to ingest whatever substance they want to.

I DO have a problem with people on welfare doing drugs. I also have a problem with people on welfare owning really nice cars. Personally, if they want to drug test welfare recipients, that's fine with me. Not because drugs are illegal, but because someone that has money for drugs doesn't need my money.

[lawrocket 3]

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Denying government services to someone based on a "status offense" is pretty much going to get steamrolled by the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses

Oh, yes. You're correct. I forgot that testing positive for drugs is like being born black. I had not realized a cocaine user can be easily spotted and moved to the back of the bus. I also didn't realize that a pot user smiling at a white woman causes lynchings.

It'd really be swell if drug users would say, "I do drugs because I like them. I would like to be able to blow money on drugs and get government assistance."

Equal Protection does not apply to choices we make, dude. Those who choose to do drugs get consequences. Those who are addicted can get treatment. I don't qualify for those benefits - is THAT a break of equal protection and due process? Hell, no, because the government proscribes STANDARDS for who can receive this money.

They can change those standards.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[airdvr 210]

It's simply about personal responsibility. I can look for a job or I can get high. I can do both. I can do neither. As a taxpayer I would like to believe that the people receiving public assistance are making an effort not to be the people receiving public assistance. And as the person receiving that assistance you can go a long ways towards proving you're not by submitting to a simple test.

The liberal crowd here doesn't understand that requiring someone to do something in return for receiving something is not bad...it's not some form of punishment. The real punishment is removing the requirement and allowing anyone to get something for nothing. It sets a bad example and provides no motivation. 50+ years of liberal "Great Society" has produced exactly the opposite.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[quade 4]

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Anybody want to take bets on whether or not this will be found as unconstitutional?

It's not going to have a hard time. Paul - you have to pee in a cup to get a private pilot's license and there's no challenge for that. This is the same thing.

You don't want a pee test then don't apply for the program. Now, if people are gettin arrested for it, that's a different story.

I was only a CFI for a few years and I'm not current, but can you please tell me WHY a private pilot is peeing in a cup Mr. AME? Hint: it has nothing to do with drugs.







Answer.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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I could be wrong but isn't an sba loan supposed to be paid back with interest?

All the more reason to not give them to drug addicts!

Let's test everybody!

BTW, a rather large number of SBA loans are never repaid because they default.

Ok, so I see the difference
It is OK to tell people in companies what they have to do to get gov money. But it is not OK to tell unemployed people who get gov money what they have to do to get that same money

Double standard much?

Your reading and comprehension skill are truly astounding.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[chutem 0]

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Anybody want to take bets on whether or not this will be found as unconstitutional?

It's not going to have a hard time. Paul - you have to pee in a cup to get a private pilot's license and there's no challenge for that. This is the same thing.

You don't want a pee test then don't apply for the program. Now, if people are gettin arrested for it, that's a different story.

The pee in the cup test for a private pilot medical (3rd class) is not a drug screen. It is a blood sugar or other similar test, can't remember for sure at the moment.

As to the OP I have no problem with drug testing welfare recipients. These days you need to be able to pee clean to get almost any decent job and these people are supposed to be looking for work. I do worry about children going hungry because Mom peed "dirty".

James

[Shotgun 1]

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1) Then make the testing random. Pretty simple, huh?

I'm curious how it would work to do random testing in this situation. With workers, they're generally at work five days a week, so it's easy to randomly send them to do a test while they're already at work. I don't know a whole lot about how the welfare system works, but I sort of doubt that there is anywhere near that much contact with the recipients, which would make it pretty difficult to do effective random testing.

[normiss 858]

Illegal search and seizure, no probable cause for the search of one's person.

For starters....

[flashvortx 0]

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Bad news for pot dealers, good news for Meth and crack merchants.
Substitution to drugs that clear the system faster has been the effect of drug screening in the oil patch.

By the way, what happens to the people who fail the drug tests? Do they go get jobs now that their welfare is cut off? More likely they resort to crime.

Yeah, so for every criminal out there, we should just start paying their bills and give them some extra spending cash so they stop stealing.

[flashvortx 0]

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Tobacco, alcohol, and obesity problems far exceed any problems associated with illicit drug use amongst welfare recipients (namely marijuana.) So, you're fine with tax dollars paying for obese alcoholics puffing away on cigarettes all day because these 3 biggest killers are legal?

I'm 100% down with a food stamp-type program where recipients can only spend it on certain things. I'm not a fan of how the government just write you a check and you can do whatever you want with it.

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A more sensible approach would be to not directly deposit funds into a persons account, but to make direct payments to landlords, utilities, as well as other expenses. If a person drives an automobile, issue a gas card. If not, issue a bus pass. This has been done with the food stamp program it can be done in other programs as well.

I couldn't agree more

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It is more of a "Look at me! I'm tough on welfare abuse!" It does nothing to address the more visible problems of mental illness, alcohol abuse, and obesity amongst those who are long term welfare recipients.

If you think our government is capable of handling that, you are high and therefore not eligible for welfare.

[flashvortx 0]

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It's simply about personal responsibility. I can look for a job or I can get high. I can do both. I can do neither. As a taxpayer I would like to believe that the people receiving public assistance are making an effort not to be the people receiving public assistance. And as the person receiving that assistance you can go a long ways towards proving you're not by submitting to a simple test.

The liberal crowd here doesn't understand that requiring someone to do something in return for receiving something is not bad...it's not some form of punishment. The real punishment is removing the requirement and allowing anyone to get something for nothing. It sets a bad example and provides no motivation. 50+ years of liberal "Great Society" has produced exactly the opposite.

Well said

[Gravitymaster 0]

The solution is to give them all big screen High def. TV's with DVR's. Then they will stay home and watch Jerry Springer and Judge Judy and not bother anyone.

[flashvortx 0]

So what I think I'm learning from this thread is the liberal viewpoint is that even though the government is giving away tax money to people for doing absolutely nothing, we can't put any limitations on it and that they deserve the money. Occasionally, in a movie, I'll root for the bad guy to get away. But it seems like liberals are encouraging welfare recipients to get away with as much as possible. The thing I don't get is that it's not just conservative money. Both the left, right, and center are paying for this.

[quade 4]

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Both the left, right, and center are paying for this.

Yes, but in different ways than you imagine.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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So we just continue giving money to people who refuse to abide by the laws of the same entity that gives them that money.
Real freakin' smart.

This coming from someone who has stated he has an extreme hatred for the courts (read into that, hence the law!)
Learn to comprehend what another states. I said nothing about "giving" money to welfare recipients.

Oh, and yes, I am real freaking smart! My GPA in high school was 4.0. In college, it was 3.92.

I stated I had no respect for the court system, I did not state I hated it.
I have respect for our laws.
My GPA in high school was also 4.0 out of 4. My college GPA was also 4.0 out of 4. See, I can make up stuff just like you. Go back to smoking your little majic weed. It's cumulative affects on you are obvious.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[hwt 0]

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http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/02/florida.drug.tests.welfare/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"A controversial law requiring adults applying for welfare assistance to undergo drug screening has gone into effect in Florida. Saying it is "unfair for Florida taxpayers to subsidize drug addiction," Gov. Rick Scott signed the legislation in June."

As much as I dislike the government getting all up in our business, I'm cool with this

_______________________________________________
The war on drugs is already lost.. I am sick of any money being used to make criminals out of drug users. prohibition does not work and neither does socialism...

[rushmc 23]

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I could be wrong but isn't an sba loan supposed to be paid back with interest?

All the more reason to not give them to drug addicts!

Let's test everybody!

BTW, a rather large number of SBA loans are never repaid because they default.

Ok, so I see the difference
It is OK to tell people in companies what they have to do to get gov money. But it is not OK to tell unemployed people who get gov money what they have to do to get that same money

Double standard much?

Your reading and comprehension skill are truly astounding.

Ok, tell me how the two situations are different then

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln