New WI Public Employee Union Rules a Success?

[hwt 0]

Quote

Imagine that...

Money taken away from honest working people and given to corporations and the wealthy in the form of TAX CUTS.

All cheered on by right wing idiots who hate average working people with a passion. The right wing idiots who are in favor of keeping huge tax cuts for corporations and the extremely wealthy in place, while cutting services for the poor, the elderly, and the disabled.

Why do you fucking assholes hate your fellow citizens so much? Why do you love corporations and the wealthy so much? Why do you want to finish the destruction of the middle class? Driving down wages and benefits does NOT help the country in any way, dumbshits.

What the fuck is wrong with you assholes?

_____________________________________________
You are exactly right...Those lazy ass union workers are taking money from the average workers... tax payers ( many who make 20- 40 k a year have to support these union leaches.

Unions make up about 10% of the work force so don't say they are the average worker...

Ban all public sector unions period...

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Indeed, Amazon. The people getting free health care, retirement, and making more that 80% of the rest of the population are not greedy at having to contribute to their health care and retirement. It's the people that ARE paying for it that also have to pay for their own health care and retirements that are the greedy ones.

Are you fucking high?

Why do dopers always think everyone else is on the same high they are on....

To answer your question.. no.. sorry not into dope nor alcohol... although I am pretty damn sure a hell of a lot of people here in Speakers Corner abuse them based on their entirely and completely fucked up world view that they roll out for everyone to see on a daily bases.

I really do hope you guys get your wet dream world... where GREED and avarice rule..... but beware..... eventually the masses you have stolen everything from and who then have nothing begin hunting down those they see as having everything.


No wonder you guys want your fringe right private armies.... Hope yall can afford Xe zombies when the time comes. I hear they come with a very high price... as well as a litmus test...... Onward Christian Soldiers marching off to butcer the have nots..... with the psuedo cross of Jesus... going on before..

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Most people who work in a union shop do so for the purpose of being represented by a union.

Dude, you are barking up a tall tree to those on this board who vehemently oppose unions. They are convinced that union people are lazy, uneducated commies not worth what they are paid. They are convinced that unions are the downfall of failing companies. Pick any woe in society and they contribute the problem to unions.

I've work for a good number of years as a union welder in a factory. Every person in that plant worked for the dollars they earned. Being lazy didn't cut it. If you didn't do your job has described, you were gone. The union would not back a person who refused to do his/her job.

Hussmann fought the union for years, until they realized that the union was on both sides. Without the company, the employee did not have a job. Without the employee, the company did not produce a product. Sadly for more than 1000 employees (myself included) when Ingersoll Rand (they pay no taxes to the U.S. government) bought out Hussmann they lost their jobs. Jobs were sent to Mexico and China. There was nothing that the union could do to stop the exportation of American jobs. Hussmann was doing over 1 billion dollars in sales, so it had nothing to do with keeping the company from failing. Hussmann is the largest commercial refrigeration company in the world. They operate on a global scale. It was the employees and the union that made them such. It was the greed that is Ingersoll Rand that put so many out of a job. How American of them.
Guys like Lawrocket, Marc Rush, and others here will never understand the need for unions.

Dude
I was in local IBEW 204 for 17 years in a right to work state. I understand perfectly what a government workers union does today and how it holds those who work hard back and protects the lazy fucks that are part of the membership.

While in the union I had one guy tell me, because he was in the union, and had worked at the company for 30 years, they owed him a job, regardless of what he did or did not do. I told him, the company only owes one and hours pay for an hours work. Want to keep working, make your self valuable to the company.

I now manage 204 members. We have a great relationship. 204 has grown up (unlike the public sector unions that fuck us all daily) They understand how they fit and they work to make themselves valuable, and they are!

The unions had reasons to exist years ago

They can exist today and provide a benefit to their membership. But it is antiquated attitudes like those which you display here is what makes the bad unions bad

I don't understand?

Funny shit man, give yourself a break

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mirage62 0]

If unions are such a great and wonderful thing why have they declined so much?

The truth is that employees that are hard working get paid very well, there simple aren't enough to go around. If you get one you do as much as you can do to keep them.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[skygypsie 2]

You really should check the factual statistics of what we the people of Wisconsin have been providing to some of these state workers, before the Act went into effect !

Teachers, WI. Dep't of Corrections, etc. were collecting $1000's of dollars annually; beyond their wages, salaries, health & retirement benefits, due to Union agreements & loopholes.

While corporate companies located here (i.e. GM, etc ) were closing doors after Federal bailouts, leaving a cloud of dust.

The trickling affect resulted in 1000's more losing their jobs & the closing of many small businesses, due to those workers lost income & inability to spend & support those businesses !

Unions such as UAW nor Teamsters did little, as in nothing to protect those many 1000's.

That imminent affect has crossed into every aspect of employment, income ( to include DZ's) & quality of life in every home in WI., & no doubt every state is experiencing it.

With so many blue collar & those from every other profession ( to include DZ's) out of work, or with little, to no income collected...to tax, to pay these State workers perks...where would you suggest the line is drawn ?

There are local efforts to recall our Govenor, who had the balls & initiative to do what was best,equally across the board...perhaps you could step up with some brilliant plan you may have & present yourself as our new Govenor..or maybe your & every other State would like to pick up their tab !

Wait...I think you might already, in the form of Federal taxes

HAPPY 4TH OF JULY

[Amazon 7]

Quote

You really should check the factual statistics of what we the people of Wisconsin have been providing to some of these state workers, before the Act went into effect !

Teachers, WI. Dep't of Corrections, etc. were collecting $1000's of dollars annually; beyond their wages, salaries, health & retirement benefits, due to Union agreements & loopholes.

While corporate companies located here (i.e. GM, etc ) were closing doors after Federal bailouts, leaving a cloud of dust.

The trickling affect resulted in 1000's more losing their jobs & the closing of many small businesses, due to those workers lost income & inability to spend & support those businesses !

Unions such as UAW nor Teamsters did little, as in nothing to protect those many 1000's.

That imminent affect has crossed into every aspect of employment, income ( to include DZ's) & quality of life in every home in WI., & no doubt every state is experiencing it.

With so many blue collar & those from every other profession ( to include DZ's) out of work, or with little, to no income collected...to tax, to pay these State workers perks...where would you suggest the line is drawn ?

There are local efforts to recall our Govenor, who had the balls & initiative to do what was best,equally across the board...perhaps you could step up with some brilliant plan you may have & present yourself as our new Govenor..or maybe your & every other State would like to pick up their tab !

Wait...I think you might already, in the form of Federal taxes

HAPPY 4TH OF JULY

MMMMMM So.. that is the fault of other unions... and not the greedy fucks who run the corporations.... right got it


I have a simple solution.... if you as a corporation wish to do business in ANY form in the USA.... you will hire Americans and you will pay taxes based on that business in the USA. Perhaps all this patriotism shown by such WONDERFUL Americans in corporate America today will be rewarded soon with their just deserts.

[Bolas 5]

Quote

MMMMMM So.. that is the fault of other unions... and not the greedy fucks who run the corporations.... right got it

It's the fault of the greedy fucks that run the unions and the corporations.

Quote

I have a simple solution.... if you as a corporation wish to do business in ANY form in the USA.... you will hire Americans and you will pay taxes based on that business in the USA. Perhaps all this patriotism shown by such WONDERFUL Americans in corporate America today will be rewarded soon with their just deserts.

That could seriously backfire as companies might simply pull out even more. Depending on the product, they may even decide it doesn't make economic sense to even try to sell it in the US.

In a world economy, you can only push so hard before the initial costs of relocating pale to the onging costs. The unions learned this one the hard way.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

MMMMMM So.. that is the fault of other unions... and not the greedy fucks who run the corporations.... right got it

It's the fault of the greedy fucks that run the unions and the corporations.

Quote

I have a simple solution.... if you as a corporation wish to do business in ANY form in the USA.... you will hire Americans and you will pay taxes based on that business in the USA. Perhaps all this patriotism shown by such WONDERFUL Americans in corporate America today will be rewarded soon with their just deserts.

That could seriously backfire as companies might simply pull out even more. Depending on the product, they may even decide it doesn't make economic sense to even try to sell it in the US.

In a world economy, you can only push so hard before the initial costs of relocating pale to the onging costs. The unions learned this one the hard way.

Great let them and pull out... and the owners can fucking leave too.

If they want to wrap themselves in the flag and blither on and on about PATRIOTISM.... then they need to take care of their fellow Americans first.

Perhaps then... some small businesses can build products that Americans want... and help our ecomomy recover.. Sorry folks.. but unfair competition by all your favorite big corporations that sent your jobs away ARE THE PROBLEM not a solution. Oh and just because your benifits are shit because you are not in the same contracts that unions are....you really do not need to desire to bring ALL those who do have them down into your cess pool to sink or swim like you are doing.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Guys like Lawrocket, Marc Rush, and others here will never understand the need for unions.

I understand the past need for unions. Good wages and worplace safety. Now we have a Labor Code that makes the law of the land what unions fought for.

What do they do now? They don't fill "needs." They fill "wants." One of the problems with people nowadays is the confusion of subjective "want" versus objective "need." The government laws provide the "needs." Unions provide "wants."

This is why the unions don't have credibility. Like other politicians, they frame "wants" as "needs" and frame "us" versus "them." Like a politician who says something is "best for everyone" such a statement is ALWAYS and WITHOUT FAIL an objective lie.

Tell me what "needs" a union fills that laws do not fill?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Bolas 5]

Quote

Great let them and pull out... and the owners can fucking leave too.

So you think America would be better off with no big corporations or rich people?

Quote

If they want to wrap themselves in the flag and blither on and on about PATRIOTISM.... then they need to take care of their fellow Americans first.

Perhaps then... some small businesses can build products that Americans want... and help our ecomomy recover.. Sorry folks.. but unfair competition by all your favorite big corporations that sent your jobs away ARE THE PROBLEM not a solution. Oh and just because your benifits are shit because you are not in the same contracts that unions are....you really do not need to desire to bring ALL those who do have them down into your cess pool to sink or swim like you are doing.

And where is this small business going to get the startup or expansion money?
* Not the gov't, cuz once the GDP was reduced by 75% or more they finally cut programs and raised taxes when the Chinese threatened to forclose because the US couldn't even pay the interest anymore on the massive loans given.
* The middle class doesn't have any money to spare as millions lost their jobs and then find out unemployment was axed.
* Those that still have jobs are paying such a high tax rate they're living paycheck to paycheck.

You talk about "shooting zombies" when things crash, taxing heavilly all the rich people and corporations will bring it faster than anything.

It's a world economy. There are much cheaper places to produce goods and also live than here, and there are much bigger untapped markets as well.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[skygypsie 2]

I'll try to simplify my position for you.

I do not support nor commend corporate American business', whether Union supported or not, who once their pockets are full to suffice; specifically by the hard working blue color worker, nor Unions affiliated with, nor those who ultimately dumped & fled those workers doing so & by abandonment of the once honored & 'needed' Union's positions organized solely for the workers by the workers.

Mottos & positions:
" united we stand divided we fall"
" an injury to one is a concern of all"...once meant something to Unions, but it's evident not to all, for all !

My position with State & Government employees collective bargaining rights here in Wisconsin, or any other state for that matter...what choice is there ?

Our gardens are sparse...our turnips are in despair, shriveled, withering & bled dry!

[rushmc 23]

Quote

If unions are such a great and wonderful thing why have they declined so much?

The truth is that employees that are hard working get paid very well, there simple aren't enough to go around. If you get one you do as much as you can do to keep them.

I agree with you. I think today they (unions) are a waste of members money. If my post implied other than that forgive me.

But, if they exist they can (and some have) make themselves viable and valuable to those they work for. But it is nothing like it used to be

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mirage62 0]

Naaa I wasn't responding to you..... we pretty much agree fwiw

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[grimmie 186]

Have a great time working at Wal Mart for $1.50 an hour.

Collective bargaining means a right to negotiate.

Strippping public employees from the rights to negotiate is a socialist move.

[skygypsie 2]

I have a simple solution.... if you as a corporation wish to do business in ANY form in the USA.... you will hire Americans and you will pay taxes based on that business in the USA
---------------------------------------------------------

That is the brilliant plan I was talking about...I'm in 100% agreement

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Have a great time working at Wal Mart for $1.50 an hour.

Collective bargaining means a right to negotiate.

Strippping public employees from the rights to negotiate is a socialist move.

Not really

And remember, for the most part I have been talking public/gov worker unions

So your post really has nothing to do with this

And socialist move?

Fail

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[hwt 0]

Just look at Greece and tell me that America needs public sector unions...

[skygypsie 2]

What's your point ?

I don't have a clue nor care about Greece's situation...I care only about the here & now & futuristic affect on EVERYONE by what State/ Federal/ Gov't Union's have done (or not done ) to benefit their employees, at the expense of ALL taxpayors...whether in our locales or as a country as a whole !

We all have a right to a position on this, as those same employees are our employees, as well!

It is a shame it has come down to this, but based on the domino effect of political & corporate empowerment, misuse & corruption...it has !

Why do these Government workers have the entitlement NOT to be affected based on taxpayors subsidizing their benefits, nor to be untainted by the economic woes all others bear, due to the power of their Unions & Collective Bargaining Rights ?

Private sector unions do not have much influence on my position nor opinions, other than what I stated earlier