Working for free? The new slavery?

[shah269 0]

More and more I'm hearing about people working for free for large companies on critical systems and projects with hopes of one day either landing a job with the company or utilizing that experience to land a job at another company.

With the every expanding contractor / sub contractor work force where work which was once the domain of full time staff is now covered by equally skilled and educated but significantly lower paid, lower incentivized individuals a thing of the past. Replaced by a sea of desperate people trying to just get a job?

From a purely financial / program manager point of view I would love this! It is one thing to terminate someone and hire them as an independent contractor so that the company no longer has to pay into their 401k or contribute to their health care costs. But this....working for free? How do you get any better than that! Great productivity at no cost?

As a human being I can't help but be appalled by this practice. Yes it's one thing to volunteer to build homes for the homeless or feed those who can't feed themselves. But we are talking about volunteering your time effort and resources to help out a company. Be it an NGO where they are classified not for profit....but the CEO get's great pay...or a straight up for profit company.

How I this even legal?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[JohnRich 4]

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How I this even legal?

Nobody forces anyone to work for free. They choose to do so by themselves.

[Bolas 5]

I wish I coukd find the article but it was all about the Interent being the new free labor source.

It mentioned something about if youtube actually had to pay the costs incurred to create the videos uploaded by non professionals how astronomical that cost would be.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[lawrocket 3]

Well, let's look at taxes. If you start at Jan. 1, in effect, the average American works until May until he or she gets to keep earnings.

Everyone who pays taxes works for nothing. Everything the government gives out was taken from someone. I, for one, don't see a difference. Except for my ability to quit working for free for an entity outside of the government.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,119]

>But we are talking about volunteering your time effort and resources to help out a company.

I've done that plenty of times and I'll do it again. Local breweries often need help during bottling or cleaning. Two local DZ's often need help on busy days doing simple stuff - shagging tandems, dressing students for an hour or so. I've helped out a few startups who needed basic engineering support.

As long as you are free to say no, there's no problem with anyone volunteering their time.

[ryoder 1,590]

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Two local DZ's often need help on busy days doing simple stuff - shagging tandems, dressing students for an hour or so.

This is approved behaviour now?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Bolas 5]

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Two local DZ's often need help on busy days doing simple stuff - shagging tandems, dressing students for an hour or so.

This is approved behaviour now?

I guess once the instructor is done or decides to skip their turn...

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 3,119]

>This is approved behaviour now?

As long as you dress them again afterwards.

[labrys 0]

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How I this even legal?

In my mind, it's a great idea. The company doesn't incur the cost or hassle of hiring someone and then discovering they don't fit in or can't do their job properly.

Some people who might never be hired because they actually told the truth on their resumes or in their interviews about not being certified to do something, but feel they can actually perform well might be given a chance they would otherwise never get.

We hire marketing interns where I work and it's much the same thing. They do get a small stipend but they also get time off if they want to go to a job interview. Some have been hired here, some have moved on with marketing experience they didn't have before.

It's purely voluntary, so what's the problem?

Owned by Remi #?

[shah269 0]

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How I this even legal?

Nobody forces anyone to work for free. They choose to do so by themselves.

Legality and unethical.
You are right, but last I checked the law it was illegal for someone to work for a company 100% with out any compinsation.
It's stealing from the government and worse off it hurts out GDP and devalues the labor pool.
But I personally have never seen this rule applied to white collar companies.

The issue at hand is the "hope" that you may transition from a non paid employee to a paid employee with benefits. There is no promise implied or written. As such YOU as the desperate individual is volunteering your time and energy for YOU feel that maybe just maybe you will be given a full time job.

I for one am offended. However as a business, can you think of a better business model? A free workforce producing at will a product you can then market. Your returns would be through the roof!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[grimmie 186]

Hell, some commuter airlines make the co pilot PAY to fly with them.

[shah269 0]

Ok just did a little reading are you ready for this?
Working for free is illigal.
However if they classify you as an intern they don't have to pay you.
How do you like that!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 3,119]

>Working for free is illigal.

Ah well. In that case, if anyone asks I'm just having fun shagging tandems, bottling beer and designing USB interfaces.

[scruffy 0]

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How do you like that!

A lot actually. I've done two internships and about to do a third that don't pay squat, but they are immersing me in an environment i can network the hell out of and I'm setting myself up for a career that I can get in on that is normally associated with people with way more experience than I have.

instead of working as a barista at starbucks or bouncing from mcjob to mcjob like the vast majority of recent college grads I'm essentially working for free to pay my dues in a very lucrative and very competitive market.

No complaints here.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[idrankwhat 0]

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Well, let's look at taxes. If you start at Jan. 1, in effect, the average American works until May until he or she gets to keep earnings.

Everyone who pays taxes works for nothing.

I wouldn't say that you get nothing for your tax dollars. We may not always like what we bought but we still got something.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/taxreceipt

[shah269 0]

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A lot actually. I've done two internships and about to do a third that don't pay squat, but they are immersing me in an environment i can network the hell out of and I'm setting myself up for a career that I can get in on that is normally associated with people with way more experience than I have.

instead of working as a barista at starbucks or bouncing from mcjob to mcjob like the vast majority of recent college grads I'm essentially working for free to pay my dues in a very lucrative and very competitive market.

No complaints here.

OK so would you do it for a few years?
And if you can do it than bravo for you since you have a support structure that can afford you the free time to do this.

Sadly not everyone can live at home with mom and thus we have to pay bills. Thus "working for free" becomes a serious issue.

As a manager, I would kill to have people like you. All I have to do is just let you do what you want to do for free and I get to then sell your product for money.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[labrys 0]

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As a manager, I would kill to have people like you. All I have to do is just let you do what you want to do for free and I get to then sell your product for money.

He's talking about internships. Employers can't legally benefit from the work done by an intern.

Owned by Remi #?

[kelpdiver 2]

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As a manager, I would kill to have people like you. All I have to do is just let you do what you want to do for free and I get to then sell your product for money.

He's talking about internships. Employers can't legally benefit from the work done by an intern.

huh? Why not?

the problem generally is that you get what you pay for.

[shah269 0]

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He's talking about internships. Employers can't legally benefit from the work done by an intern.

WHAT! So all the work I did for my first internship was non beneficial?
Come on brother!
Hell I was a part of two teams and even went to Europe as an intern to work.
But I got paid!

But now with the ecnomy in the shitter....how abut this....the word of the day is Networking.
So here is a crock of shit I'm going to sell you...come work for me, I will make loads of cash off of your work so you could network and develope false hope that your "network" will get you a job.


YEAH!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Ok just did a little reading are you ready for this?
Working for free is illigal.
However if they classify you as an intern they don't have to pay you.
How do you like that!

Would you care to share with the rest of us anything you have that documents this?
I am not aware of any law that prohibits people from working for no compensation.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 3,119]

>come work for me, I will make loads of cash off of your work so you could network
>and develope false hope that your "network" will get you a job.

So if your DZO offered you the chance to get your AFF rating for free, hoping to make loads of cash off you, you'd decline?

[quade 4]

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>come work for me, I will make loads of cash off of your work so you could network
>and develope false hope that your "network" will get you a job.

So if your DZO offered you the chance to get your AFF rating for free, hoping to make loads of cash off you, you'd decline?

Except that's not the deal being offered by most internships.

Here's a typical one.

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unpaid script reading

Company Name Abbot Literary Management
Job Title Script Reading Internship

Description

Abbot Entertainment seeks a Script Reading Intern to read screenplays and write coverage.

As a script reader, you will help us evaluate new writer submissions. Our readers are asked to cover a minimum of two screenplays per week for three months. Readers are required to edit their coverage according to feedback provided. If two readers cover the same script, they must discuss their differences in opinion. Readers also communicate with writers, answering their questions and acknowledging their thanks or complaints. These responsibilities require roughly 10 hours per week.

At the end of our program, our readers can export their coverage into professionally formatted pdfs for use as a writing sample. Our Internship is good for someone looking to study screenwriting conventions and the coverage process. While Academic Credit can be provided, this it is unpaid work from home internship.

Please e-mail a@abbotent.com a resume and a cover letter detailing your experience working with scripts and your interest in reading them for us.

Abbot Management specializes in finding producers and agents for high quality film and television scripts. After evaluating 6,000+ screenplay submissions, we have placed screenplays with major production companies and talent. We are also associate producing our first two feature films.

Qualifications
- Previous knowledge of screenplay storytelling technique, convention, and formatting.
- Flawless spelling, syntax, & grammar and a professional tone of writing.
- A passion for learning either talent management or film development.

So does that sound like a good deal for the "intern" or simply free labor for the company? I guess I should point out that this company charges writers $39 for each script read and covered by the "interns."

The term "intern" as it pertains to labor law is supposed to provide an educational value to a student in quid pro quo. Interns are not to be considered as "free labor" nor are they supposed to be a substitute for hiring actual labor.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Bolas 5]

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>come work for me, I will make loads of cash off of your work so you could network
>and develope false hope that your "network" will get you a job.

So if your DZO offered you the chance to get your AFF rating for free, hoping to make loads of cash off you, you'd decline?

Barter is totally different.

Were the DZO to expect you to pay for that rating and then do students loads for them for free while still having to pay for your slot that'd be more inline with the standard internship.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 3,119]

>Barter is totally different. Were the DZO to expect you to pay for that rating . . .

?? I gave you an example where you work (i.e. jump with evaluators, help in classroom instruction, help train advanced students) for free in hopes of someday getting a paying job; the DZO may also be hoping you work for them.

The example Shah gave was of someone who works (i.e. helps with day to day business, gets to know how the company works) for free in hopes of someday getting a paying job; the company may also be hoping for a new employee.

Why does the kind of job make a difference?

[Andy9o8 2]

Ethically, I'm generally on your side on this. However, read on....

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How I this even legal?

Nobody forces anyone to work for free. They choose to do so by themselves.

Legality and unethical.
You are right, but last I checked the law it was illegal for someone to work for a company 100% with out any compinsation.
It's stealing from the government

Then you haven't checked. In fact, the government does it, too. For example, there's a job called "Special US Assistant Attorney General (Uncompensated)". Here, take a look:

http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=uncompensated+us+attorney&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&changed_loc=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1024&bih=574&emsg=NCSR&noj=1&ei=y8kDTuiIFcm9tgfUiomWDg

Basically, it's for legal newbies - rich kids, for the most part - fresh out of law school who financially can afford to work for free as a Special US Attorney General (i.e., a foot-soldier level staff attorney at a local branch of the US Atty General's office, in the hopes of either getting a job there some day, or at least getting some litigation experience that can go on their resume.

I dislike it, because, as you say...

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and worse off it ... devalues the labor pool.

Of course it does, in so many ways

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I for one am offended.

As I said- on balance, I don't like it, either. Those who actually have to work for their daily food and roof over their head are essentially priced-out of those jobs; and you can bet it depresses overall salaries, too.