And then there was one...

[mnealtx 0]

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Using bold also doesn't make you right.

There, it's fixed. Now you can respond to the post without that scary bolding in the way.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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Using bold also doesn't make you right.

There, it's fixed. Now you can respond to the post without that scary bolding in the way.

Still doesn't change the false claim.

The claim was;

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If it were as hard to get a driver's license as it is to get a CCW permit, there wouldn't be any cars on the road.

And that's nonsense. If higher fees, testing, fingerprinting, background checks or whatever other metric you care to lump into the process were required to get a driver's license, people would still get them and there would still be cars on the road. They absolutely would jump through the hoops, even in Wisconsin.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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Using bold also doesn't make you right.

There, it's fixed. Now you can respond to the post without that scary bolding in the way.

Still doesn't change the false claim.

The claim was;

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If it were as hard to get a driver's license as it is to get a CCW permit, there wouldn't be any cars on the road.

And that's nonsense. If higher fees, testing, fingerprinting, background checks or whatever other metric you care to lump into the process were required to get a driver's license, people would still get them and there would still be cars on the road. They absolutely would jump through the hoops, even in Wisconsin.

Some would, I'm sure. I'm also sure that a lot of people wouldn't jump through the hoops (or wouldn't qualify) if the requirements were the same as getting a CCW...which was his point, even if overstated.

And BTW...Germany doesn't require fingerprints or a background check for a DL....or at least it didn't when I lived there.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

What I find interesting though in this entire discussion is you appear to have acknowledged that the potential threat to society as a whole by use of these devices does, in fact, merit some form of licensing by the operator.

We've just had a brief back and forth that pretty much proves licensing and even odious requirements is not a true impediment to owning and operating said devices by qualified individuals.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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What I find interesting though in this entire discussion is you appear to have acknowledged that the potential threat to society as a whole by use of these devices does, in fact, merit some form of licensing by the operator.

Really? Where did I say that?

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We've just had a brief back and forth that pretty much proves licensing and even odious requirements is not a true impediment to owning and operating said devices by qualified individuals.

False premise, as we are talking about CCW and not basic ownership.

So, taking your statement at face value, you have no issue with voter ID requirements? After all, it proves that 'licensing and even odious requirements is not a true impediment'.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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So, taking your statement at face value, you have no issue with voter ID requirements? After all, it proves that 'licensing and even odious requirements is not a true impediment'.

I've always, since the very first time I voted many, many years ago, thought it was odd nobody checked IDs to prevent fraudulent voting.

What level of ID should be required is debatable, but in principle I'm not against requiring as much proof in that regard as say, would be required to get a library card.

I'm not in favor of a national voter ID card if that's what you're getting at. I simply don't think it would be a justifiable expense.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[popsjumper 2]

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In a few years, even some Chicago professors might be applying for concealed carry licenses!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Wisconsin passes concealed carry law

Well, the governor hasn't signed it yet. Is he expected to do so?
Who's left? Is Chicago the lone holdout at this point, nationwide?

Now there's a few places which should be upgraded from discretionary concealed carry states into shall-issue states. The personal feelings of individual sheriffs should not be used to deny permits, when people otherwise fully qualify.

Governor is expected to sign. There was a push for "Vermont Style" (No permit requred) carry, but the Gov wouldn't sign unless there was a training requirement in the law. Interestingly enough, there isn't any live fire training required in the law, just classroom. The instructors I know are planning on "strongly encouraging" live fire training (and are planning on including it in the course offered, but cannot require it).

Illinois is the only state left with no "civilian carry" permit, but there are a few ways around it. Firearms instructor and "special police" are the two I can think of offhand, I don't know the requirements for the first, but the "special police" means having strong political/LE connections. There was a big stink 15 or 20 years ago when it was revealed how many "special police" there were in the Chicago area (lots) and who they were (a lot of "reputed organized crime" figures). Go figure.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[mjosparky 4]

To quote one of your posts, "Get over yourself". To the rest of the world you are starting to look foolish.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[christelsabine 1]

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If it were as hard to get a driver's license as it is to get a CCW permit, there wouldn't be any cars on the road.

Nonsense.

So, you have a list of the places that require a full set of fingerprints and state/federal background checks to get a driver's license?

Please list them, I'd like to see where they are.

Just as soon as you provide a list of states that require as much training as is required to get a driver's license in Germany, where, if I'm not mistaken, cars are doing just fine.

We're discussing the United States, not Germany. *DO* try to keep up.

Why do you hate us Germans that much?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[mnealtx 0]

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To quote one of your posts, "Get over yourself". To the rest of the world you are starting to look foolish.

Sparky

Since you're claiming to speak for the rest of the world, it appears that YOU need the advice more than I.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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If it were as hard to get a driver's license as it is to get a CCW permit, there wouldn't be any cars on the road.

Nonsense.

So, you have a list of the places that require a full set of fingerprints and state/federal background checks to get a driver's license?

Please list them, I'd like to see where they are.

Just as soon as you provide a list of states that require as much training as is required to get a driver's license in Germany, where, if I'm not mistaken, cars are doing just fine.

We're discussing the United States, not Germany. *DO* try to keep up.

Why do you hate us Germans that much?

I don't - why do you hate Americans so much?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnRich 4]

News #1:

SAF Wins Injunction v. Chicago Gun Range Ban

In a 3-0 ruling issued this morning, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit has reversed a lower court ruling and ordered that court to issue a preliminary injunction against the City of Chicago on behalf of the Second Amendment Foundation that prevents the city from banning gun ranges inside city limits...

Full story: http://eon.businesswire.com/news/eon/20110706006601/en/Sscond-Amendment/Gun-Bans/Lawsuits

News #2:

Second Amendment Foundation Files For Preliminary Injunction Against Illinois Carry Ban

Capitalizing on its federal appeals court victory Wednesday in Ezell v. City of Chicago, the Second Amendment Foundation today moved for a preliminary injunction against the State of Illinois to prevent further enforcement of that state’s prohibitions on firearms carry in public by law-abiding citizens.

Full story: http://www.ammoland.com/2011/07/07/second-amendment-foundation-files-for-preliminary-injunction-against-illinois-carry-ban/

The demise of the Chicago/Illinois gun-o-phobes begins.

[DanJohnson 0]

Free Men don't need or seek any government *permission* to carry fire arms or much of anything else.

Decide that you are Free as intended and live that way.

[popsjumper 2]

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Free Men don't need or seek any government *permission* to carry fire arms or much of anything else.

Decide that you are Free as intended and live that way.

...and spend a lot of your life in jail if you live "free" in America. The only "free" you're going to get is free room and board at your local jail.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DanJohnson 0]

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Free Men don't need or seek any government *permission* to carry fire arms or much of anything else.

Decide that you are Free as intended and live that way.

...and spend a lot of your life in jail if you live "free" in America. The only "free" you're going to get is free room and board at your local jail.

The Founding Fathers risked the noose and loss of their fourtunes to live as Free Men.
Some things are worth risking everything for.
Would you live as a Man or a mouse?

If you love the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for Freedom,go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel nor your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you.May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that Ye were our countrymen.

[popsjumper 2]

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Free Men don't need or seek any government *permission* to carry fire arms or much of anything else.

Decide that you are Free as intended and live that way.

...and spend a lot of your life in jail if you live "free" in America. The only "free" you're going to get is free room and board at your local jail.

The Founding Fathers risked the noose and loss of their fourtunes to live as Free Men.
Some things are worth risking everything for.
Would you live as a Man or a mouse?

The point being that in this country there are a lot, and I mean a LOT, of extremely vocal mice willing to bend and break before they would dream of standing up to the goobermint that takes away those hard-earned rights of self-determination for which the "Founding Fathers" fought.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[JohnRich 4]

Update:

Walker Signs Conceal Carry Law

"Gov. Scott Walker signed the Wisconsin Personal Protection Act into law today along with Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association.

"The law allows people the option to carry a concealed firearm for protection..."

Full story: http://caledonia.patch.com/articles/got-gun-you-can-now-conceal-carry-caledonia

Effective Nov. 1st.