Greek debt crisis is Europe's 'Lehman moment'

[dreamdancer 0]

here we go again...

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Stock and bond markets lurched on Thursday amid fears that the Greek sovereign debt crisis was about to unleash a "Lehman-like" shock on the global financial system.

Traders feared that the political chaos and riots across Greece would cause a default, which in turn would trigger a tsunami through the financial system – as the collapse of Lehman Brothers did in 2008.

Neil Mackinnon, an economist at VTB Capital in London and a former Treasury official, said: "The probability of a eurozone Lehman moment is increasing. The markets have moved from simply pricing in a high probability of a Greek debt default to looking at a scenario of it becoming disorderly and of contagion spreading to other economies like Portugal, like Ireland, and maybe Spain, Italy and Belgium."

London's FTSE 100 closed down 0.76pc at 5698.81, following a 1pc drop on Wednesday. Major exchanges in Germany and France plunged as well. Asian stock markets had already fallen overnight on Wednesday and US markets followed in early trading yesterday.

The euro hit an all-time low against the Swiss franc and fell 0.1pc against the dollar to $1.4161. The cost of insuring Greek debt against default also hit a fresh record. Five-year credit default swaps on Greek government debt rose by 124 basis points to 18.5pc. Greek debt is the most expensive in the world to insure, with the next closest being Venezuelan debt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8580951/Greek-debt-crisis-is-Europes-Lehman-moment.html

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[DougH 270]

It would be our Lehman moment also, just part II. Our banks aren't sitting by on the sidelines watching with popcorn in hand, we are deep in this shit too.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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It would be our Lehman moment also, just part II. Our banks aren't sitting by on the sidelines watching with popcorn in hand, we are deep in this shit too.

Yup, unless Ds and Rs learn to work together, you are looking at your own future.

[marks2065 0]

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here we go again...

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Stock and bond markets lurched on Thursday amid fears that the Greek sovereign debt crisis was about to unleash a "Lehman-like" shock on the global financial system.

Traders feared that the political chaos and riots across Greece would cause a default, which in turn would trigger a tsunami through the financial system – as the collapse of Lehman Brothers did in 2008.

Neil Mackinnon, an economist at VTB Capital in London and a former Treasury official, said: "The probability of a eurozone Lehman moment is increasing. The markets have moved from simply pricing in a high probability of a Greek debt default to looking at a scenario of it becoming disorderly and of contagion spreading to other economies like Portugal, like Ireland, and maybe Spain, Italy and Belgium."

London's FTSE 100 closed down 0.76pc at 5698.81, following a 1pc drop on Wednesday. Major exchanges in Germany and France plunged as well. Asian stock markets had already fallen overnight on Wednesday and US markets followed in early trading yesterday.

The euro hit an all-time low against the Swiss franc and fell 0.1pc against the dollar to $1.4161. The cost of insuring Greek debt against default also hit a fresh record. Five-year credit default swaps on Greek government debt rose by 124 basis points to 18.5pc. Greek debt is the most expensive in the world to insure, with the next closest being Venezuelan debt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8580951/Greek-debt-crisis-is-Europes-Lehman-moment.html

The greek debt is a perfect example of why socialism doesn't work.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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The greek debt is a perfect example of why socialism doesn't work.

True, just like the US debt crisis is a perfect example of why capitalism doesn't work. Funny enough, the end result is close to being the same.

Turns out the succesful economies have a hybrid system in place.

[marks2065 0]

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The greek debt is a perfect example of why socialism doesn't work.

True, just like the US debt crisis is a perfect example of why capitalism doesn't work. Funny enough, the end result is close to being the same.

Turns out the succesful economies have a hybrid system in place.

Problem is that the government debt is a form of socialism and not capitalism and the stronger the fed gov gets the worse it gets. we need to severly limit the fed gov and let capitalism take control again.

[Amazon 7]

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The greek debt is a perfect example of why socialism doesn't work.

True, just like the US debt crisis is a perfect example of why capitalism doesn't work. Funny enough, the end result is close to being the same.

Turns out the succesful economies have a hybrid system in place.

Problem is that the government debt is a form of socialism and not capitalism and the stronger the fed gov gets the worse it gets. we need to severly limit the fed gov and let capitalism take control again.

YEAH... just6 like the good ole day of the robber barons.... thats the ticket.

[kallend 2,150]

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The greek debt is a perfect example of why socialism doesn't work.

True, just like the US debt crisis is a perfect example of why capitalism doesn't work. Funny enough, the end result is close to being the same.

Turns out the succesful economies have a hybrid system in place.

Problem is that the government debt is a form of socialism and not capitalism and the stronger the fed gov gets the worse it gets. we need to severly limit the fed gov and let capitalism take control again.

Good job the government was there to bail out AIG or we'd be in a depression, not recovering from a recession started by greedy Wall St. capitalists.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[marks2065 0]

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The greek debt is a perfect example of why socialism doesn't work.

True, just like the US debt crisis is a perfect example of why capitalism doesn't work. Funny enough, the end result is close to being the same.

Turns out the succesful economies have a hybrid system in place.

Problem is that the government debt is a form of socialism and not capitalism and the stronger the fed gov gets the worse it gets. we need to severly limit the fed gov and let capitalism take control again.

Good job the government was there to bail out AIG or we'd be in a depression, not recovering from a recession started by greedy Wall St. capitalists.

The bail out was not what I would have done but it was done in a way that most of the money from Tarp was paid back, unlike the stimulus waste of money.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

How do you figure it was a waste of money?

How did you calculate that the economy would have done better without the stimulus spending?

[kelpdiver 2]

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How do you figure it was a waste of money?

How did you calculate that the economy would have done better without the stimulus spending?

bit hard to calculate - more an exercise in shoveling bullshit.

OTOH, it's a lot easier to calculate the bill.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

That was pretty much my point.

Doing nothing, IMHO would have resulted in a worse economic situation. Though I am sure there are efficiencies available in the process. But there almost always is in government run programs.

[mnealtx 0]

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How do you figure it was a waste of money?

How did you calculate that the economy would have done better without the stimulus spending?

bit hard to calculate - more an exercise in shoveling bullshit.

OTOH, it's a lot easier to calculate the bill.

There was a nifty little chart the administration was using as a talking point when they were pushing the stimulus bill...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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That was pretty much my point.

Doing nothing, IMHO would have resulted in a worse economic situation. Though I am sure there are efficiencies available in the process. But there almost always is in government run programs.

the second sentence in my post addressed the consequences, which we have yet to face. That cannot be ignored in an opinion of "would have resulted in a worse economic situation."

Personally, I'm pretty disappointed at how little of that spending was truly on infrastructure projects that would pay off for decades.

[DanG 1]

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The bail out was not what I would have done but it was done in a way that most of the money from Tarp was paid back, unlike the stimulus waste of money.

Since most of the stimulus was in the form of tax refunds, I would think a person like you would be happy that the money was returned to the rightful owners, namely the people.

- Dan G

[kelpdiver 2]

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The bail out was not what I would have done but it was done in a way that most of the money from Tarp was paid back, unlike the stimulus waste of money.

Since most of the stimulus was in the form of tax refunds, I would think a person like you would be happy that the money was returned to the rightful owners, namely the people.

by what fancy math did you come to a conclusion of "most?" Spending represented 2/3rds of ARRA. Tax refunds in the guise of 400/800$ represented only $145B of it.

[kallend 2,150]

To be really mediæval one should have no body. To be really modern one should have no soul. To be really Greek one should have no clothes. Oscar Wilde.

Pretty accurate.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.