Two Sides ...

[Butters 0]

... of the same coin.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[JohnRich 4]

That's odd, where are all the liberals who bitched about how evil the Patriot Act was when George Bush signed it? They are strangely silent now...

[Amazon 7]

Quote

... of the same coin.

I think this is the main difference for the reading challenged...

Quote

A short-term expiration would not have interrupted ongoing operations but would have barred the government from seeking warrants for new investigations.

I seem to remember a hell of a lot of warrentless searches and wiretapping and thumbing of the nose at the FISA Courts. The NSA warrantless surveillance controversy exploded because they brought the powers of foreign intelligence gathering home to the USA which seemed to be used against enemies of the Administration more than against terrorists in what is against our laws. But since it was done by Mike and JR's fellow Texican who can do no wrong and is their favorite president of all time it was all good.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

... of the same coin.

I think this is the main difference for the reading challenged...

Quote

A short-term expiration would not have interrupted ongoing operations but would have barred the government from seeking warrants for new investigations.

I seem to remember a hell of a lot of warrentless searches and wiretapping and thumbing of the nose at the FISA Courts. The NSA warrantless surveillance controversy exploded because they brought the powers of foreign intelligence gathering home to the USA which seemed to be used against enemies of the Administration more than against terrorists in what is against our laws. But since it was done by Mike and JR's fellow Texican who can do no wrong and is their favorite president of all time it was all good.

Same laws, same application

Just cherry picking by the liberal blind

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

... of the same coin.

I think this is the main difference for the reading challenged...

Quote

A short-term expiration would not have interrupted ongoing operations but would have barred the government from seeking warrants for new investigations.

I seem to remember a hell of a lot of warrentless searches and wiretapping and thumbing of the nose at the FISA Courts. The NSA warrantless surveillance controversy exploded because they brought the powers of foreign intelligence gathering home to the USA which seemed to be used against enemies of the Administration more than against terrorists in what is against our laws. But since it was done by Mike and JR's fellow Texican who can do no wrong and is their favorite president of all time it was all good.

Same laws, same application

Just cherry picking by the liberal blind

Oh so THAT is what following the laws of our land are.... COLOR me surprised you and your ilk would disregard laws that are inconvienent for you.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

... of the same coin.

I think this is the main difference for the reading challenged...

Quote

A short-term expiration would not have interrupted ongoing operations but would have barred the government from seeking warrants for new investigations.

I seem to remember a hell of a lot of warrentless searches and wiretapping and thumbing of the nose at the FISA Courts. The NSA warrantless surveillance controversy exploded because they brought the powers of foreign intelligence gathering home to the USA which seemed to be used against enemies of the Administration more than against terrorists in what is against our laws. But since it was done by Mike and JR's fellow Texican who can do no wrong and is their favorite president of all time it was all good.

Same laws, same application

Just cherry picking by the liberal blind

Oh so THAT is what following the laws of our land are.... COLOR me surprised you and your ilk would disregard laws that are inconvienent for you.

Same law
same application

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

... of the same coin.

I think this is the main difference for the reading challenged...

Quote

A short-term expiration would not have interrupted ongoing operations but would have barred the government from seeking warrants for new investigations.

I seem to remember a hell of a lot of warrentless searches and wiretapping and thumbing of the nose at the FISA Courts. The NSA warrantless surveillance controversy exploded because they brought the powers of foreign intelligence gathering home to the USA which seemed to be used against enemies of the Administration more than against terrorists in what is against our laws. But since it was done by Mike and JR's fellow Texican who can do no wrong and is their favorite president of all time it was all good.

Same laws, same application

Just cherry picking by the liberal blind

Oh so THAT is what following the laws of our land are.... COLOR me surprised you and your ilk would disregard laws that are inconvienent for you.

Same law
same application

You seem to forget that The Shrub and Gonzales... were above all those pesky applications of the LAW.. so they just ignored them.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

... of the same coin.

I think this is the main difference for the reading challenged...

Quote

A short-term expiration would not have interrupted ongoing operations but would have barred the government from seeking warrants for new investigations.

I seem to remember a hell of a lot of warrentless searches and wiretapping and thumbing of the nose at the FISA Courts. The NSA warrantless surveillance controversy exploded because they brought the powers of foreign intelligence gathering home to the USA which seemed to be used against enemies of the Administration more than against terrorists in what is against our laws. But since it was done by Mike and JR's fellow Texican who can do no wrong and is their favorite president of all time it was all good.

Same laws, same application

Just cherry picking by the liberal blind

Oh so THAT is what following the laws of our land are.... COLOR me surprised you and your ilk would disregard laws that are inconvienent for you.

Same law
same application

You seem to forget that The Shrub and Gonzales... were above all those pesky applications of the LAW.. so they just ignored them.

Same law
Same aplication

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

And the so called warentless wire taps you seem to think went away, are still in full force. After the Obama admin won the right in court to continue using them

That was posted about on this site some time back

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Wow. Back in 2009 they renewed provisions, too. Your thinking and reasoning is rock solid: "Bush did it and it was bad. Well, Bush and the righties did do it. President Obama and Congress have no choice now because Bush did it. Obama and the progressives said they objected to it, even though many of them voted for it initially but they now regret it so much they had to vote for it again and the President had to sign it. Bush did it."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Wow. Back in 2009 they renewed provisions, too. Your thinking and reasoning is rock solid: "Bush did it and it was bad. Well, Bush and the righties did do it. President Obama and Congress have no choice now because Bush did it. Obama and the progressives said they objected to it, even though many of them voted for it initially but they now regret it so much they had to vote for it again and the President had to sign it. Bush did it."

GAWD you guys are so DESPARATE to believe the law is still being applied the same way it was applied by YOUR hero...sad really.

[rushmc 23]

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/obama-sides-republicans-patriot-act-renewal-bill-p

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Quote

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush

Yours does NOT EQUAL this

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/05/12/ana05054.html

No matter how much you want to BELIEVE


***
Bush's Enemies List. Why Did Bush Commit an Illegal, Impeachable Act When All His Lawyers Had to Do Was Walk Into a Secret Court?

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS

Okay, so here's the real deal.

In the wake of the Nixon's abuses of our Constitution, our liberties and our privacy, Congress (in 1978) set up a secret court that the Executive Branch must -- by law -- go to if it is seeking wiretaps or surveillance of foreigners or Americans "suspected" of terrorism or espionage.

This is the law.

It was passed by Congress to prevent the kind of abuse that the Bush Administration is guilty of. This law is called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

This secret court (the last we knew it was headed by GOP hack partisan federal judge David Sentelle -- who got Poindexter and North off the hook and put Kenneth Starr on the job -- but that may have changed) has never been known to deny a government request for wiretapping, surveillance or searches.

So, if the secret court always approves the White House requests for wiretapping, surveillance and searches, why did the White House get its approval in some cases (with a dramatic increase of court-approved spying under Bush) but not others?

Why did the Bush Administration need to engage in illegal spying on American citizens in hundreds if not thousands of cases, if the court so acquiescently approved of its requests?

We know that Bush fashions himself a dictator who can create the law as he sees fit. But why go to the trouble and potential legal and political problems if all his administration had to do was go to the secret court, which, we repeat, always approves the White House requests? And no one's known of a leak coming out of this secret court.

Ah, there's the rub.

The answer is that the White House didn't go through the legal process on these specific cases and, instead, committed a grossly illegal violation of the U.S. Constitution and a Congressional law specifically designed to provent such executive branch abuses for one reason -- and that reason likely has to do with who was under surveillance, who was being wiretapped and who was being illegally searched.

In short, if the American public were to see the list of hundreds -- and perhaps thousands of people, according to The New York Times -- the Bush Administration violated the law to spy on, we might see names akin to Nixon's "enemies list." Only in this case, it would be Bush's "enemies list."

Why, we might see names like Joe and Valerie Wilson, or Richard Clarke, or Cindy Sheehan, among others. The White House wouldn't want even a secret court to know that it was spying on political enemies. This was exactly why the FISA law was passed. To prevent just such illegal political spying by the White House.

Yesterday, The New York Times (which suddenly has awakened from a decades long slumber) also reported that the FBI was spying on domestic advocacy groups -- and let's just say that they weren't groups complaining that "liberals are conducting a war on Christmas." They were groups that are at odds with the Bush agenda, expressing their viewpoints -- as is their Constitutional right -- under the American Constitution.

So what we have here is a White House that is using illegal actions to spy on American citizens who the same White House considers not a threat to the United States, but a political threat to their one-party, dictatorial rule.

That, dear readers, is tyranny.

It is why there was an American Revolution against King George.

It is why the Democrats would be enabling treason if they reach any "compromise" on the UnPatriot Act.

No one can anymore have an excuse for putting blinders on.

Bush has failed in his "war on terrorism." It is only a political tool for him, not a national security goal. He uses it as a cudgel of fear to cow wobbly, weak kneed Democrats into submission. But, meanwhile, we are less safe as Americans because of Bush's incompetent leadership -- and he is conducting a war on our Constitution and dissent at the same time. That is the war that really interests him.

Those who would sacrifice our liberties and our freedoms can be terrorists, or they can be people in the White House.

Both are a threat to our democracy.

Right now, the Bush Administration is the one who is dismantling our Constitution, spying on us, invading our privacy, denying us our liberty, and acting illegally.

If the Democrats don't push back with passion, courage and conviction, we are doomed to live under the yoke of tyranny.

It will take dedicated patriots to save us.

This is not about business as usual. This is about law breakers and preserving the legacy of the American Revolution.

This is about letting the terrorists win by allowing an administration to do their work of undermining democracy for them.

This is about justice.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush

Yours does NOT EQUAL this

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/05/12/ana05054.html

No matter how much you want to BELIEVE


***
Bush's Enemies List. Why Did Bush Commit an Illegal, Impeachable Act When All His Lawyers Had to Do Was Walk Into a Secret Court?

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS

Okay, so here's the real deal.

In the wake of the Nixon's abuses of our Constitution, our liberties and our privacy, Congress (in 1978) set up a secret court that the Executive Branch must -- by law -- go to if it is seeking wiretaps or surveillance of foreigners or Americans "suspected" of terrorism or espionage.

This is the law.

It was passed by Congress to prevent the kind of abuse that the Bush Administration is guilty of. This law is called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

This secret court (the last we knew it was headed by GOP hack partisan federal judge David Sentelle -- who got Poindexter and North off the hook and put Kenneth Starr on the job -- but that may have changed) has never been known to deny a government request for wiretapping, surveillance or searches.

So, if the secret court always approves the White House requests for wiretapping, surveillance and searches, why did the White House get its approval in some cases (with a dramatic increase of court-approved spying under Bush) but not others?

Why did the Bush Administration need to engage in illegal spying on American citizens in hundreds if not thousands of cases, if the court so acquiescently approved of its requests?

We know that Bush fashions himself a dictator who can create the law as he sees fit. But why go to the trouble and potential legal and political problems if all his administration had to do was go to the secret court, which, we repeat, always approves the White House requests? And no one's known of a leak coming out of this secret court.

Ah, there's the rub.

The answer is that the White House didn't go through the legal process on these specific cases and, instead, committed a grossly illegal violation of the U.S. Constitution and a Congressional law specifically designed to provent such executive branch abuses for one reason -- and that reason likely has to do with who was under surveillance, who was being wiretapped and who was being illegally searched.

In short, if the American public were to see the list of hundreds -- and perhaps thousands of people, according to The New York Times -- the Bush Administration violated the law to spy on, we might see names akin to Nixon's "enemies list." Only in this case, it would be Bush's "enemies list."

Why, we might see names like Joe and Valerie Wilson, or Richard Clarke, or Cindy Sheehan, among others. The White House wouldn't want even a secret court to know that it was spying on political enemies. This was exactly why the FISA law was passed. To prevent just such illegal political spying by the White House.

Yesterday, The New York Times (which suddenly has awakened from a decades long slumber) also reported that the FBI was spying on domestic advocacy groups -- and let's just say that they weren't groups complaining that "liberals are conducting a war on Christmas." They were groups that are at odds with the Bush agenda, expressing their viewpoints -- as is their Constitutional right -- under the American Constitution.

So what we have here is a White House that is using illegal actions to spy on American citizens who the same White House considers not a threat to the United States, but a political threat to their one-party, dictatorial rule.

That, dear readers, is tyranny.

It is why there was an American Revolution against King George.

It is why the Democrats would be enabling treason if they reach any "compromise" on the UnPatriot Act.

No one can anymore have an excuse for putting blinders on.

Bush has failed in his "war on terrorism." It is only a political tool for him, not a national security goal. He uses it as a cudgel of fear to cow wobbly, weak kneed Democrats into submission. But, meanwhile, we are less safe as Americans because of Bush's incompetent leadership -- and he is conducting a war on our Constitution and dissent at the same time. That is the war that really interests him.

Those who would sacrifice our liberties and our freedoms can be terrorists, or they can be people in the White House.

Both are a threat to our democracy.

Right now, the Bush Administration is the one who is dismantling our Constitution, spying on us, invading our privacy, denying us our liberty, and acting illegally.

If the Democrats don't push back with passion, courage and conviction, we are doomed to live under the yoke of tyranny.

It will take dedicated patriots to save us.

This is not about business as usual. This is about law breakers and preserving the legacy of the American Revolution.

This is about letting the terrorists win by allowing an administration to do their work of undermining democracy for them.

This is about justice.

It is always fun when you realize you have lost

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Marc do you ever have a day where the delusions are not as profound??

[rhaig 0]

Quote

Marc do you ever have a day where the delusions are not as profound??

so you're ok with the patriot act extension?

--
Rob

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Marc do you ever have a day where the delusions are not as profound??

so you're ok with the patriot act extension?

No I am not... it should never have been enacted... BUT..... I will bet this administration is utilizing the law in accordance with its intent.. instead of as a political tool to wiretap their "enemies". Too bad so many of the rePUBICtards in that Administration cut their teeth in the Nixon Administration.

The Patriot Act is a travesty that was used indiscriminately to take our country closer to a police state.. and most of the conservatards have been blithering their support for it.. till a new administration renewed it.. then its BAD BAD BAD...

bunch of fucking hypocrites

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

BUT..... I will bet this administration is utilizing the law in accordance with its intent.. instead of as a political tool to wiretap their "enemies".

Of course you do. And, like usual, you have no proof that they are.

Quote

The Patriot Act is a travesty that was used indiscriminately to take our country closer to a police state.. and most of the conservatards have been blithering their support for it.. till a new administration renewed it.. then its BAD BAD BAD...

And now it's GOOD GOOD GOOD because Obama is in charge...got it.

Quote

bunch of fucking hypocrites

Yeah...but we're used to that from y'all.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

Poor Mikeeeee

So so wrong .


as usual...

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Poor Mikeeeee

So so wrong .


as usual...

Well by all mean, show us the proof behind your claims....for once.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Poor Mikeeeee

So so wrong .


as usual...

Well by all mean, show us the proof behind your claims....for once.

Still lookin for those oak leaf clusters for your Bush Cross Mikee?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Poor Mikeeeee

So so wrong .


as usual...

Well by all mean, show us the proof behind your claims....for once.

Still lookin for those oak leaf clusters for your Bush Cross Mikee?

So, like usual....you've got nothing.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[airdvr 210]

Wait for it.......

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[sfzombie 3]

what was franklin's famous quote about safety? anyone? and jefferson's quote about outlawing fire because it may burn or water because it may drown you?
and the thing i hate about reading these forums(besides some of the opinions expressed, which is ok, they are opinions) is when someone feels he has to put the text that he is replying to in a quote. stop it already, i've read the one before yours, i don't need to read it 32 more times!! this to me is asinine and i've been using it as a guage of intelligence of the users who do this. it just seems stupid to me, but that too is an opinion.

http://kitswv.com