dmcoco84 5 #1 May 26, 2011 Is government... a natural or artificial condition of humans? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #2 May 26, 2011 Well I prefer natural breasts, but I won't complain about either. Ok, sorry not the question you asked. Any way to answer your question I need to understand what you mean by natural and artificial. For Gov to be artificial I guess it would have to be initiated by an outside source and not by humans. Other wise it's a natural progression of human evolution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #3 May 26, 2011 QuoteIs government... a natural or artificial condition of humans? Both, really. It's an artificial construct that is the natural result of intelligent creatures' natural tendency to form social groups and either hierarchies or standards of conduct that govern the social groups. The social rankings, individual roles and disciplinary conduct found in, say, a pride of lions, is part of the natural condition of lions. Human government is really an extension of that natural process; although humans' ability to conceptualize in the abstract, and to put those abstractions into actual practice, might be considered artificial. But it's a grey area, and not a bright line. FAA regulations are an artificial construct of humans' natural inclination to govern society. And yet, is an alpha male lion's tendency to kill lion cubs he has not sired purely natural, or is it the acting-out of some abstract thinking at a most basic level ("Not tolerate cubs not mine")? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,571 #4 May 26, 2011 QuoteHuman government is really an extension of that natural process; although humans' ability to conceptualize in the abstract, and to put those abstractions into actual practice, might be considered artificial. But it's a grey area, and not a bright line. FAA regulations are an artificial construct of humans' natural inclination to govern society. And yet, is an alpha male lion's tendency to kill lion cubs he has not sired purely natural, or is it the acting-out of some abstract thinking at a most basic level ("Not tolerate cubs not mine")? When we're talking about behaviour are 'natural' and 'artificial' actually mutually exclusive? Human intellect is natural.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #5 May 26, 2011 Preemptive to what?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #6 May 26, 2011 Already answered that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #7 May 26, 2011 Where?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #8 May 26, 2011 QuoteWhen we're talking about behaviour are 'natural' and 'artificial' actually mutually exclusive? Human intellect is natural. Yes, I've often thought the same: that that which is the product of human intellect may be viewed as natural, since it is the product of a process of nature, i.e., intellect. Think of the liberating possibilities: DDT is the product of natural intellect; take that, organic farmers! Condoms are the product of natural intellect; take that, Pope! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #9 May 26, 2011 Disapointed - totally thought this thread was going to be about boobies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #10 May 26, 2011 It is an artificial structure created out of an evolved desire for fairness and security. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #11 May 26, 2011 I thought about boobs too. If it is anything made by humans (other than poop) it is by definition artificial. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #12 May 27, 2011 Our Founders believed that the only way you could trust a theory of government... is to know the history of Human Nature... and, They Studied It!! But clearly... too few, now do. This Must Change Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #13 May 27, 2011 QuoteIt is an artificial structure created out of an evolved desire for fairness and security. Locke would agree... government is artificial. But he would disagree with the rest of your statement. Not a criticism, but an observation. Clearly... you have not read the second treatise of government. There are Cliff Notes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #14 May 27, 2011 QuoteI thought about boobs too. If it is anything made by humans (other than poop) it is by definition artificial. Not true .... babies are made by humans and are natural (I know they poop a lot but they are some what different to poop..... in the main) (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,571 #15 May 27, 2011 QuoteLocke would agree... government is artificial. But he would disagree with the rest of your statement. Not a criticism, but an observation. Clearly... you have not read the second treatise of government. Or maybe he has read it but does not take it as gospel truth. Do you think Locke was perfect?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #16 May 27, 2011 In school, we used to be told... "there are no dumb questions." (To promote critical thinking - learning How to Think... not, What to Think.) But, considering everything I have said to date... Do you think Locke was perfect?... that honestly is, a dumb question. Since you are from the UK... "supposed to know less American history... than an American should"... OK. No... Man is Imperfect. Hence, the need for Limited Government... to prevent tyranny. DEFINED: Small and Limited Government http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4058065;page=unread#unread Which is exactly... what I have been talking about. sigh... How about this... Compare and Contrast... Locke and Hobbes. Two of the three, MAIN, contributors to this debate... Why is it artificial? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #17 May 27, 2011 Quote There are Cliff Notes... Some make it all the way through college on Cliff Notes. Sad, but true.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #18 May 27, 2011 QuoteCompare and Contrast... Locke and Hobbes. Psst.. If you're going to do that (which you should), you need to include Rousseau in the mix. Oh, and stop calling people stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,571 #19 May 27, 2011 QuoteBut, considering everything I have said to date... Do you think Locke was perfect?... that honestly is, a dumb question. Then why do you treat his opinions as inviolable truth?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #20 May 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteI thought about boobs too. If it is anything made by humans (other than poop) it is by definition artificial. Not true .... babies are made by humans and are natural (I know they poop a lot but they are some what different to poop..... in the main)Welll, no. We BEGET babies. We can MAKE an android. We don't actually MAKE the baby. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #21 May 27, 2011 >Locke would agree... government is artificial. But he would disagree with >the rest of your statement. Probably correct. But then again, Locke's not always right, either. He was a smart guy, and was working with what he had, but he missed out on a lot of evolutionary behavioral science. >Not a criticism, but an observation. Clearly... you have not read the >second treatise of government. Actually not an observation but an assumption - and you know what they say about them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #22 May 27, 2011 QuoteActually not an observation but an assumption - and you know what they say about them. golf clap see everybody - this is how you call somebody an ass without getting banned. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrokenR1 0 #23 May 28, 2011 artificial - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rap is to music what etch-a-sketch is to art. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #24 May 28, 2011 QuoteIs government... a natural or artificial condition of humans? I'll vote natural but tend to lean toward Andy9o8. Alpha males will eventually dominate such a large territory that the need for subordinates arise. Centralized government is then created.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
