High School Student Stands Up Against Prayer at Public School and Is Ostracized, Demeaned and Threatened
By
dreamdancer, in Speakers Corner
Quote[
My son will be armed with an understanding and a sense that I never had or will have. Billvon has an understanding and was better able to make a choice than I was because he had religious education from an early age. I'm an atheist who is an atheist because I was kept pretty ignorant.
it certainly would have helped when reading English Lit.
Shotgun 1
QuoteI'm an atheist who is an atheist because I was kept pretty ignorant.
Most people are kept pretty ignorant (and often biased) as children in that they mostly learn about whichever religion their parents are. As adults, we choose our religion or lack thereof. If we continue on with our parents' religion or lack thereof, it is either because we have informed ourselves and chosen the same path, or it is because we have chosen to remain ignorant.
Coreece 190
QuoteOkay, not you. Let's say your children.
My "children" are in the hands of this evil world just as I was. I'm not worried about it.
My cousins, age 13, are being taught false concepts of Christianity by a liberal atheistic homosexual at a public school in religion class. I expressed my anger about this in these forums a little while back...it was basically a display of denial and lack of faith.
My son is 11 years old and in the 99th percentile in the country for math and science and works as an actor in Hollywood. He lives in the religious right wing nutcase capital of the world, Colorado Springs. Not only is he an atheist, he's actually adamant against the idea of God and wants nothing to do with it.
I went to a Catholic school for 13 years, I would make out with the chicks at nap time in kindergarden. I became an altar boy and basically lived my adolescents as a rebellious atheist. It didn't matter the crap they taught me. I was a child con-artist and dissolved my first company at the age of 12. The priests, elders and organist ( organist,
) would try to seduce us and hang us in closets and beat us. We would steal the church offerings, drink the wine and get high off incense... I would confess my sins and say my hail mary as if it was ok now, and then as I walked out of the confessional, I would zip up my pants as if leaving a porta-jon...the kids always got a kick out of that one.
My point is that you can't teach kids faith, either you have the gift or not....
What are you people so afraid of?
Children are capable of anything:
Cirque Du Soleil - La Nouba - Diablos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59J8Sn11Na0&feature=autoplay&list=AVGxdCwVVULXdP-cr0T_vbsauLNXnJ9P94&index=3&playnext=3
Have some faith:
Cirque du Soleil - Alegria
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fllDB3FK7pI&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=AVGxdCwVVULXdP-cr0T_vbsauLNXnJ9P94
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
JohnRich 4
QuoteI am an atheist. And I find the behavior repugnant. It's like using bible burning to fight bible thumping. Yes - it created a shitstorm because of the failure to recognize that other people's feelings are there and that those feelings have validity. Want to hurt someone's feelings? Tell that person he or she has been brainwashed...
What is the truth? What is brainwashing? What is the answer for those who have been brainwashed? Shut them up? Isolate them? Reeducate them? What should be done?
It's ironic that so many people label those who are religious as "brainwashed". Just because they don't agree with their religious beliefs, they use derogatory terms like "brainwashing" to denigrate their belief system.
But those people have a right to that belief system. Just because some don't agree with them, doesn't mean that they're wrong or ignorant to possess those beliefs.
And while labeling others as "brainwashed", at the same time, the accusers wouldn't even begin to think that they might be brainwashed themselves.
After all, everyone has many different belief systems. Atheism is a belief system - is that brainwashing? How about Capitalism? Democracy? Marriage? Monogamy? Labor Unions? Free speech? Free health care? Are all the people who believe in those ideas victims of brainwashing too?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
Everyone acquires certain beliefs through their personal life experiences. Just because some are different from others, does not make them ignorant, i.e. "brainwashed".
I'd like to see atheists be enlightened enough to respect people with religious beliefs. But there sure are a lot of people here who don't. And interestingly enough, to the contrary, I can't think of any avowed religious people here who speak of atheists in terms of ignorance or brainwashing...
BrokenR1 0
I hope the kid and/or ACLU sues, and wins. We have laws for a reason. Just because the majority want to trample on the rights of a few does not make it right. The other students and the rest of their cult can go home and pray all they want.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rap is to music what etch-a-sketch is to art.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rap is to music what etch-a-sketch is to art.
QuoteAtheism is a belief system.
no it's not.
(that's like saying that science is a 'belief' system - it's an investigation of reality as it is)
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
bullshit. Atheism is not an investigation. It is a belief that god does not exist.QuoteQuoteAtheism is a belief system.
no it's not.
(that's like saying that science is a 'belief' system - it's an investigation of reality as it is)
Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Yeah we need more lawsuits. Oh, the horror of having to endure a sixty second prayer! I am sure the atheists will need years of psychotherapy to overcome the ordeal.QuoteI hope the kid and/or ACLU sues, and wins. We have laws for a reason. Just because the majority want to trample on the rights of a few does not make it right. The other students and the rest of their cult can go home and pray all they want.
Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Quotebullshit. Atheism is not an investigation. It is a belief that god does not exist.QuoteQuoteAtheism is a belief system.
no it's not.
(that's like saying that science is a 'belief' system - it's an investigation of reality as it is)
It is not a belief system. It is a conclusion based upon evidence or more accurately, a complete lack of evidence to support the null hypothesis.
The key difference between that and and superstitious belief systems is that virtually all atheists are willing to change their minds given conflicting evidence.
Quotebullshit. Atheism is not an investigation. It is a belief that god does not exist.QuoteQuoteAtheism is a belief system.
no it's not.
(that's like saying that science is a 'belief' system - it's an investigation of reality as it is)
god does not exist until you can prove it does. if you cannot prove it then you are not describing reality as it is if you claim there is a god. for instance you can believe that the world is flat but you cannot prove it. you can believe in pixies and fairies but you cannot prove that they exist. therefore you are not describing reality as it is. this is a fallacy thrown out by religious 'believers' to cover their own irrationality.
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
BrokenR1 0
QuoteYeah we need more lawsuits. Oh, the horror of having to endure a sixty second prayer! I am sure the atheists will need years of psychotherapy to overcome the ordeal.QuoteI hope the kid and/or ACLU sues, and wins. We have laws for a reason. Just because the majority want to trample on the rights of a few does not make it right. The other students and the rest of their cult can go home and pray all they want.
We do indeed. There is a reason they exist.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rap is to music what etch-a-sketch is to art.
SkyDekker 1,465
Very well said Jerry!!
QuoteQuotebullshit. Atheism is not an investigation. It is a belief that god does not exist.QuoteQuoteAtheism is a belief system.
no it's not.
(that's like saying that science is a 'belief' system - it's an investigation of reality as it is)
It is not a belief system. It is a conclusion based upon evidence or more accurately, a complete lack of evidence to support the null hypothesis.
The key difference between that and and superstitious belief systems is that virtually all atheists are willing to change their minds given conflicting evidence.
yep - all the believers have to do is provide enough evidence. atheists are still waiting...
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
jclalor 12
Look what the army did to Pat Tillman and his family for being atheist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM9YnsB-oBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM9YnsB-oBo
Butters 0
QuoteQuoteso you'd belittle the virgin mary
Certainly not! Just the Roman Pagan goddess worship of her. I'd use the book from which they base their faith to argue my case.
So you would belittle others beliefs because they are not your beliefs ... so your intolerant and a hypocrite.
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch
Channman 2
I thought student lead prayers was allowed?
As a side note: and maybe this is directed more to dreamdancer, Is it offensive to an atheist if a family out to dinner prayed over their meal in a public setting. Not loud but possibly audible to a nearby table? Should that speech be considered unlawful and not protected under our constitution?
May thought is, if burning the American Flag which I think is repugnant, but considered free speech and protected under the law. I find the discussion of prayer being offensive to some, somehow needs to be quenched and therefore not considered free speech nor protected in public settings.
As a side note: and maybe this is directed more to dreamdancer, Is it offensive to an atheist if a family out to dinner prayed over their meal in a public setting. Not loud but possibly audible to a nearby table? Should that speech be considered unlawful and not protected under our constitution?
May thought is, if burning the American Flag which I think is repugnant, but considered free speech and protected under the law. I find the discussion of prayer being offensive to some, somehow needs to be quenched and therefore not considered free speech nor protected in public settings.
Shotgun 1
QuoteYeah we need more lawsuits. Oh, the horror of having to endure a sixty second prayer! I am sure the atheists will need years of psychotherapy to overcome the ordeal.QuoteI hope the kid and/or ACLU sues, and wins. We have laws for a reason. Just because the majority want to trample on the rights of a few does not make it right. The other students and the rest of their cult can go home and pray all they want.
Yeah, I don't think there is any point in suing the school, since they did cancel the prayer. It's unfortunate that many of the "Christian" students then chose to behave in an un-Christian manner.
Too bad this has to be such a game.
jakee 1,595
QuoteAs a side note: and maybe this is directed more to dreamdancer, Is it offensive to an atheist if a family out to dinner prayed over their meal in a public setting. Not loud but possibly audible to a nearby table? Should that speech be considered unlawful and not protected under our constitution?
Why ever would it be?
QuoteMay thought is, if burning the American Flag which I think is repugnant, but considered free speech and protected under the law. I find the discussion of prayer being offensive to some, somehow needs to be quenched and therefore not considered free speech nor protected in public settings.
The legal issue has nothing at all to do with offensiveness.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
QuoteI thought student lead prayers was allowed?
As a side note: and maybe this is directed more to dreamdancer, Is it offensive to an atheist if a family out to dinner prayed over their meal in a public setting. Not loud but possibly audible to a nearby table? Should that speech be considered unlawful and not protected under our constitution?
May thought is, if burning the American Flag which I think is repugnant, but considered free speech and protected under the law. I find the discussion of prayer being offensive to some, somehow needs to be quenched and therefore not considered free speech nor protected in public settings.
Would you be OK if prayers to Satan were offered up at similar ceremonies paid for with your taxes?
Channman 2
"I thought student lead prayers was allowed?"
You answered a question with a question.
Satanist, offering prayers up in ceremonies funded by the Tax payers.....UM I thought this was already occuring at the Airforce Academy. I could be wrong though. Maybe its because they perfer to use the term of Pagan or Wiccan.
BillyVance 35
Jumping in late, but he could have not made any waves and just put in ear plugs during the prayer.
Stupid fucker.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban
Butters 0
QuoteJumping in late, but he could have not made any waves and just put in ear plugs during the prayer.
Stupid fucker.
They could have not had a prayer which caused waves ... should we call them stupid f**kers also?
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch
BillyVance 35
QuoteQuoteJumping in late, but he could have not made any waves and just put in ear plugs during the prayer.
Stupid fucker.
They could have not had a prayer which caused waves ... should we call them stupid f**kers also?
Well, prayer in school has been around for hundreds of years, including at sporting events. Just go with the flow. That's all I'm saying.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban
[Reply]why the hell does anybody that wants to or claims to preach the "love of Jesus", find justification for their actions of demeaning and shunning this kid? I just don't get it. I think if we were following what Jesus preached, we'd be reaching out to this kid and making your kids invite him over supper, or take him on a family vacation.
I think that when people call them Christians, atheists, etc. it provides a label that dehumanizes to some extent. One of the things that I view about religion is that they are based upon the idea that people are "flawed." Catholics go to confession because it is a given - they sin. There's the part in that Catholic prayer about asking God to grant them the strength to forgive others' trespasses as they would want their trespasses forgiven. Inherent in it isa an acknowledgment that we are human and fail. It's about trying to live a righteous life. Only Jesus could do it right every time.
Still - there is some validity to what you say. Christianity itself takes a controversial position on human behavior. It's human nature to be pissed off at a person who dissipates what we feel is important. Who knows? This may have been the Christian teen equivalent oF a cock blocking.
I suspect that as time goes on, most of these Christians will examine ther behaviors through the teachings of the Bible. Jesus would say that young Damon is your brother and that I should grant shelter for he is also god's child.
It is THIS that I appreciate about the Bible - that I view it as acceptance of human nature with lessons on how to be a "better" person under the standards set forth in the Bible and that document provides the backbone of rules of our preesent society.
The ritual. The deities. I don't agree with that. However, I can ignore it. And if my kids are in the middle of it, I don't need the ACLU to deal with it. First - I discuss it with my kids and have them examine it. They don't have to agree with it or me. But my kid isn't going to be some snivelly bitch who has his feelings hurt over an invocation, over a reading of the Torah, or over the denial of such.
My wife is hotter than your wife.