High School Student Stands Up Against Prayer at Public School and Is Ostracized, Demeaned and Threatened

[Coreece 190]

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>I think you'd have to be a punch-drunk dummy to look at the complexity
>of life and not consider that it all came from an intelligent entity bigger
>than ourselves.

You'd have to be a punch-drunk dummy to look at the Giant's Causeway and not consider that it might have been built by someone. But then when you do the research you realize it's all just geology and erosion.

You always stop short when we discuss things like this. You need to go further back...as far as you can.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Shotgun 1]

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The idea of Karma as a positive feedback loop within one lifetime has little to do with Buddhism of Hinuism and more to do with John Lennon.
Those who believe in Karma as espoused by the Bhagavad Gita understand that Paris Hilton is rich because she deserves it due to her behavior in past lives. The same is true for the starving children of the world and those sold into the child sex trade.

Yeah, I find the reincarnation stuff to be a bit silly.

[billvon 3,118]

>You need to go further back...as far as you can.

We can go back several billion years. Sure seems silly to stop short at 6000 years.

[tkhayes 348]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/?test=latestnews

another 'ban' of prayer at high school. One more thumbs up for the Constitution.......

[diverborg 0]

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/?test=latestnews

another 'ban' of prayer at high school. One more thumbs up for the Constitution.......

I don't know if thats just a totally twisted piece of writing considering the source, but if that article is being truthful, I see a lot more pissing on the consitution going on that protecting it. Banning a planned prayer that is part of a ceremony is one thing. Making it illegal for "students" to use certain religious terms in school seems like a much more blatant violation of free speech to me.

[Coreece 190]

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/?test=latestnews

another 'ban' of prayer at high school. One more thumbs up for the Constitution.......

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The judge declared that the Schultz family and their son would “suffer irreparable harm” if anyone prayed at the ceremony.

What a tool...

...but this is quite possibly true. I mean some people start twitching and their eyeballs roll to the back of their head just at the mention of the name Jesus...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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How many billions? And is this an estimate?

http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html

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The best age for the Earth comes not from dating individual rocks but by considering the Earth and meteorites as part of the same evolving system in which the isotopic composition of lead, specifically the ratio of lead-207 to lead-206 changes over time owing to the decay of radioactive uranium-235 and uranium-238, respectively. Scientists have used this approach to determine the time required for the isotopes in the Earth's oldest lead ores, of which there are only a few, to evolve from its primordial composition, as measured in uranium-free phases of iron meteorites, to its compositions at the time these lead ores separated from their mantle reservoirs. These calculations result in an age for the Earth and meteorites, and hence the Solar System, of 4.54 billion years with an uncertainty of less than 1 percent. To be precise, this age represents the last time that lead isotopes were homogeneous througout the inner Solar System and the time that lead and uranium was incorporated into the solid bodies of the Solar System.

A lot of assumptions/beliefs need to be true/fact to make that number correct.

[DanG 1]

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You always stop short when we discuss things like this. You need to go further back...as far as you can.

Yeah billvon, remember, "It's turtles all the way down."

- Dan G

[jaybird18c 25]

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http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html

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The best age for the Earth comes not from dating individual rocks but by considering the Earth and meteorites as part of the same evolving system in which the isotopic composition of lead, specifically the ratio of lead-207 to lead-206 changes over time owing to the decay of radioactive uranium-235 and uranium-238, respectively. Scientists have used this approach to determine the time required for the isotopes in the Earth's oldest lead ores, of which there are only a few, to evolve from its primordial composition, as measured in uranium-free phases of iron meteorites, to its compositions at the time these lead ores separated from their mantle reservoirs. These calculations result in an age for the Earth and meteorites, and hence the Solar System, of 4.54 billion years with an uncertainty of less than 1 percent. To be precise, this age represents the last time that lead isotopes were homogeneous througout the inner Solar System and the time that lead and uranium was incorporated into the solid bodies of the Solar System.

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Because of the RATE research results, the long-age radioactive methods for dating rocks can now be more easily demonstrated to often be faulty, since there are problems with the three crucial assumptions on which they are based:

1.There are uncertainties as to the absence or presence of daughter atoms when the rocks formed, because there is much evidence of the rocks having inherited daughter atoms that were not formed by radioactive decay in those rocks.

2.There is abundant evidence of widespread “open-system” behavior of parent and daughter atoms. Rocks are often contaminated with extra parent and daughter atoms produced apart from radioactive decay. Parent and daughter atoms are also removed by various geologic processes (for example, leaching by fluids) subsequent to the rocks forming.

3.Nuclear decay rates may well have changed in the past.

Much research, even reported in the conventional scientific literature, has found that rocks of known age often yield erroneously old radioactive age estimates because either one of the first two assumptions, or both, can be demonstrated to be false. And if the radioactive “clocks” have not always “ticked” at the currently measured slow rates but were grossly accelerated in the past, then these radioactive dating methods cannot be used to provide reliable age estimates for rocks. After all, if these “clocks” don’t work on rocks of known ages, how can they be trusted on rocks of unknown ages? To be sure, there is a systematic trend of radioactive age estimates for rocks according to their positions in the geologic record, but this would be expected if nuclear decay was grossly accelerated systematically when the rock layers were forming. For example, rocks laid down early in the Flood would yield older ages than rocks laid down later during the Flood because the earlier rocks would have experienced more accelerated radioactive decay.

Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth by Dr. Andrew Snelling

[david3 0]

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http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html

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The best age for the Earth comes not from dating individual rocks but by considering the Earth and meteorites as part of the same evolving system in which the isotopic composition of lead, specifically the ratio of lead-207 to lead-206 changes over time owing to the decay of radioactive uranium-235 and uranium-238, respectively. Scientists have used this approach to determine the time required for the isotopes in the Earth's oldest lead ores, of which there are only a few, to evolve from its primordial composition, as measured in uranium-free phases of iron meteorites, to its compositions at the time these lead ores separated from their mantle reservoirs. These calculations result in an age for the Earth and meteorites, and hence the Solar System, of 4.54 billion years with an uncertainty of less than 1 percent. To be precise, this age represents the last time that lead isotopes were homogeneous througout the inner Solar System and the time that lead and uranium was incorporated into the solid bodies of the Solar System.

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Because of the RATE research results, the long-age radioactive methods for dating rocks can now be more easily demonstrated to often be faulty, since there are problems with the three crucial assumptions on which they are based:

1.There are uncertainties as to the absence or presence of daughter atoms when the rocks formed, because there is much evidence of the rocks having inherited daughter atoms that were not formed by radioactive decay in those rocks.

2.There is abundant evidence of widespread “open-system” behavior of parent and daughter atoms. Rocks are often contaminated with extra parent and daughter atoms produced apart from radioactive decay. Parent and daughter atoms are also removed by various geologic processes (for example, leaching by fluids) subsequent to the rocks forming.

3.Nuclear decay rates may well have changed in the past.

Much research, even reported in the conventional scientific literature, has found that rocks of known age often yield erroneously old radioactive age estimates because either one of the first two assumptions, or both, can be demonstrated to be false. And if the radioactive “clocks” have not always “ticked” at the currently measured slow rates but were grossly accelerated in the past, then these radioactive dating methods cannot be used to provide reliable age estimates for rocks. After all, if these “clocks” don’t work on rocks of known ages, how can they be trusted on rocks of unknown ages? To be sure, there is a systematic trend of radioactive age estimates for rocks according to their positions in the geologic record, but this would be expected if nuclear decay was grossly accelerated systematically when the rock layers were forming. For example, rocks laid down early in the Flood would yield older ages than rocks laid down later during the Flood because the earlier rocks would have experienced more accelerated radioactive decay.

Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth by Dr. Andrew Snelling

Isn’t Dr Andrew Snelling one of the world's most respected creation scientists?


.

[champu 1]

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Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth by Dr. Andrew Snelling

"It is realized that changes in fundamental constants, and also greatly accelerated nuclear decay, are radical suggestions."

Translation: "we just fucking made them up."

I have another radical suggestion for you: The Bible is not the word of any god.

[jakee 1,595]

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And if the radioactive “clocks” have not always “ticked” at the currently measured slow rates but were grossly accelerated in the past, then these radioactive dating methods cannot be used to provide reliable age estimates for rocks.

See this is the bare fact of the creationist argument. Evidence is meaningless because god can juke the evidence.

So why do you even bother with the facade? Why go to the trouble of concocting this fucking abortion of pseudo-science when at the end of the day, it all boils down to "Who cares what the evidence says, god just made it look that way because he wanted to fuck with you"?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Channman 2]

Federal Court Lifts Ban on Public Prayer at Texas High School Graduation After Uproar

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/03/texas-senator-blasts-judges-decision-to-forbid-public-prayer-at-high-school/#ixzz1OGFf3qq5

[Coreece 190]

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Federal Court Lifts Ban on Public Prayer at Texas High School Graduation After Uproar

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/03/texas-senator-blasts-judges-decision-to-forbid-public-prayer-at-high-school/#ixzz1OGFf3qq5

So be it...

(Secret code for "amen.")

However, on a side note...do we really believe God cares about any of this?

I mean, I could go on the rest of my life with out praying aloud. If anything, maybe with a few brothers in privacy.

The following scripture may not necessarily be relevant to this public prayer fiasco, but it's been on my mind:

Matthew 6:1-8
"Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

"Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

"And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[winsor 236]

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Batman IS real - I've seen it in the movies

no, he's not real (heretic)! superman is though and you'd better not disbelieve!

I got a pocket full of kryptonite.

[mnealtx 0]

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/?test=latestnews

another 'ban' of prayer at high school. One more thumbs up for the Constitution.......

You're so cute when you think you have a point.

That one will be going to the Supremes.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[tkhayes 348]

yep, I bet it will. And I bet the Supreme Court will rule that prayer at graduation ceremonies in public schools IS actually state sponsored prayer and therefore unconstitutional.

$5 on it.

[tkhayes 348]

that would be so true EXCEPT for the outcry that would most likely happen if someone broke out into muslin prayer or held a Wiccan ceremony at the same graduation ceremony.

I am pretty sure that this would NOT be tolerated by the 'religious majority who is only trying to express a freedom of speech'

It is a fundamental difference. Freedom of speech - but only as long as it is CHRISTIAN speech....

[mnealtx 0]

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yep, I bet it will. And I bet the Supreme Court will rule that prayer at graduation ceremonies in public schools IS actually state sponsored prayer and therefore unconstitutional.

$5 on it.

I'll take that bet.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SpeedRacer 1]

What would happen if everone stopped trying to "make a point" & stir shit up all the time? Like if Christians didn't have to jump up and make a point of doing loud, public prayers at govt events, and the atheists didn't run crying to their lawyers everytime they see a cross or a creche?

What would be lost if both sides would just STFU and mellow out a little?

Speed Racer
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[Andy9o8 2]

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What would happen if everyone stopped trying to "make a point"?

You have a point.

[winsor 236]

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What would happen if everyone stopped trying to "make a point"?

You have a point.

I think blood sacrifice in schools should be protected by the First Amendment. Pithing frogs before Biology exams would be a good start.

[winsor 236]

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What would happen if everyone stopped trying to "make a point"?

You have a point.

I think blood sacrifice in schools should be protected by the First Amendment. Pithing frogs before Biology exams would be a good start.

And virgins, don't forget about virgins.

"It's only because I love you enough to keep you from being thrown into the volcano. I can make you immune to such a fate."

[rushmc 23]

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You are guiding them to your position on the matter.

No, I am guiding them to their position on the matter.

as do jaybird, rush, jakee and all the others of all these differing beliefs

their position as guided by the parent, the child can decide when they are an adult - in the meantime, we choose what they get exposed to as parents. You have more of a smorgasbord, as do I, and those guys do their thing - as is their right

that's a form of indoctrination - it's not a bad thing, it just is

do you want to force them to take up your style with their kids? if so, then that's a bad advocacy of a different kind of indoctrination

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jaybird18c 25]

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You are guiding them to your position on the matter.

No, I am guiding them to their position on the matter.

I'm wondering if you lock the doors to your house at night. If so, why? Would it be to keep those out who might do your family harm? In that way, aren't you "closed" to the idea of others imposing their wills on you? You want to "keep the bad stuff out?" Now in the realm of ideas, you may expose your children to differing beliefs but do you not instruct them as to what you believe to be true? Do you try and shelter them from what you know might do them harm? Do you not raise them up in the direction you'd have them go? Of course, they may go a little to the left or right but do you not give them your idea of a foundation...a cardinal direction to follow? Or...is it just a "free for all", figure it out as you go along, don't learn from your mistakes, let them suffer through what could have been prevented? That doesn't sound very loving. To teach your kids what you believe is right is in fact a form of indoctrination, I guess. I'll give you that. I hope my kids hold to the foundation that I've tried to provide them. I hope it will carry them through life and give them something to hold onto. Principals to live by which are more important than money, wealth, or power. Character building principals which will help them to mature and live for something bigger than themselves....and for someone who will never let them down...regardless of circumstances. God.