High School Student Stands Up Against Prayer at Public School and Is Ostracized, Demeaned and Threatened

[dreamdancer 0]

religous brainwashing at its best...

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Damon Fowler, an atheist student at Bastrop High School in Louisiana, was about to graduate. His public school was planning to have a prayer as part of the graduation ceremony: as they traditionally did, as so many public schools around the country do every year. But Fowler -- knowing that government-sponsored prayer in the public schools is unconstitutional and legally forbidden -- contacted the school superintendent to let him know that he opposed the prayer, and would be contacting the ACLU if it happened. The school -- at first, anyway -- agreed, and canceled the prayer.

Then Fowler's name, and his role in this incident, was leaked. As a direct result:

1) Fowler has been hounded, pilloried, and ostracized by his community.

2) One of Fowler's teachers has publicly demeaned him.

3) Fowler has been physically threatened. Students have threatened to "jump him" at graduation practice, and he has received multiple threats of bodily harm, and even death threats.

4) Fowler's parents have cut off his financial support, kicked him out of the house, and thrown his belongings onto the front porch.

Oh, and by the way? They went ahead and had the graduation prayer anyway.

http://www.alternet.org/belief/151086/high_school_student_stands_up_against_prayer_at_public_school_and_is_ostracized%2C_demeaned_and_threatened

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
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[beowulf 1]

Sad but not surprising.

[DiverMike 5]

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Fowler's parents have cut off his financial support, kicked him out of the house, and thrown his belongings onto the front porch

Sounds like there is more to the story than religious beliefs if his mom and dad think he is a jerk.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Unless they're religious nut-jobs, which even the religious must surely accept occasionally exist.

[DiverMike 5]

That possibility exists, but when I hear hoofbeats I think horses, not zebras. I think it is more likely a teenage boy is rebelling against the world than nut-job parents are throwing out a perfectly good teenager.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[lawrocket 3]

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1) Fowler has been hounded, pilloried, and ostracized by his community.

So what? So he threatens to use court process and hounds, pillories and ostracizes but wants to remain anonymous? The pussy thought he'd get away with it anonymously?

Welcome to the world that is not the internet.

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2) One of Fowler's teachers has publicly demeaned him.

That teacher should be fuckin fired. The kid is captive at school.

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3) Fowler has been physically threatened. Students have threatened to "jump him" at graduation practice, and he has received multiple threats of bodily harm, and even death threats.

So deal with the kids making the threats - that is, if there is any evidence to support it. Unfortunately, real-life trolls tend to make shit up. This is a kid who'll off himself when he hits 25 years old and figures out he just isn't relevant or important in this world.

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4) Fowler's parents have cut off his financial support, kicked him out of the house, and thrown his belongings onto the front porch.

"Welcome to the real world, she said." This is either: (1) a kid who weighed all the risks and showed the moral courage to do it anyway; (2) a kid who didn't weigh all the pluses and minuses and went ahead without taking the effort to appreciate what would happen; or (3) a snot-nosed, attention seeking brat whose parents are fed up with him, along with fellow students and those in the community.

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They went ahead and had the graduation prayer anyway

I'm torn on this. While I dddo not believe that the state has any business sponsoring any religious ceremony, this was not a problem for the first 200 years of the Constitution. Now, of course, we are in a situation where the many must yield to the one.

It is a profound showing of disrespect to threaten lawsuits and such things because people choose to exercise their beliefs that I may find repugnant but, shit, doesn't do anything but make the ceremony last a minute longer.

I took a look for Mr. Fowler's own words and found them:

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My graduation from high school is this Friday. I live in the Bible Belt of the United States. The school was going to perform a prayer at graduation, but due to me sending the superintendent an email stating it was against Louisiana state law and that I would be forced to contact the ACLU if they ignored me, they ceased it. The school backed down, but that’s when the shitstorm rolled in. Everyone is trying to get it back in the ceremony now. I’m not worried about it, but everyone hates me… kind of worried about attending graduation now. It’s attracted more hostility than I thought.

My reasoning behind it is that it’s emotionally stressing on anyone who isn’t Christian. No one else wanted to stand up for their constitutional right of having freedom of and FROM religion. I was also hoping to encourage other atheists to come out and be heard. I’m one of maybe three atheists in this town that I currently know of. One of the others is afraid to come out of the (atheist) closet.

Though I’ve caused my classmates to hate me, I feel like I’ve done the right thing. Regardless of their thoughts on it, basically saying I am ruining their fun and their lives, I feel like I’ve helped someone out there. I didn’t do this for me or just atheists, but anyone who doesn’t believe in their god that prayer to Yahweh may affect.

Okay. Let's examine this. I had no problem with the violation of law. That's fine. I applaud him. Where did this go wrong? "The school backed down, but that’s when the shitstorm rolled in. Everyone is trying to get it back in the ceremony now. I’m not worried about it, but everyone hates me… kind of worried about attending graduation now. It’s attracted more hostility than I thought."

Yep. THe failure to recognize that certain issues like this are important to people on a visceral level. He's one against 900. Well, I've learned that when it's you against the world that I'll bet on the world. "It's attracted more hostility than I thought" means he expected hostitlity but - in his way of thinking - it shouldn't be like this. It's a storm that he created and knew he'd face shit. He got what he expected and more.

Now this part: "My reasoning behind it is that it’s emotionally stressing on anyone who isn’t Christian." Good bye! I hate to break it to you, kid, but if you think this is emotionally stressful, there has been a fundamental failure of society, the educational system and your parents. Also note the crusading aspect of this: "Regardless of their thoughts on it, basically saying I am ruining their fun and their lives, I feel like I’ve helped someone out there. "

Okay. For the one person out there you'll ruin the party. That's nice.

Hey, kid, here's a lesson for you: "It is against the law to do it." That's fine. That's enough. Making it into something bigger and self-aggrandizing is sooooo 2000's.

ALso note - a girl who spoke led a prayer. A student.

There is SOOOO much more to this story - and so much less.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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That possibility exists, but when I hear hoofbeats I think horses, not zebras. I think it is more likely a teenage boy is rebelling against the world than nut-job parents are throwing out a perfectly good teenager.

True, but to a nut-job parent they're not throwing out a perfectly good teenager but a demented God-denying atheist to-be-rejected bastard-child destined for no where but the gates of hell.

[JohnRich 4]

Damon is a spoiled little selfish brat who should try following this advice:

"school officials suggested that Fowler, and other students who object to school-sponsored prayer, should respect the majority of their classmates"

You don't always get to have things your way, and you should respect and tolerate the beliefs of others. If you don't want to participate in the prayer, you can remain silent or walk out. Geez, why is that such a big deal?

And everyone in this forum who exhibits such intense hatred for religious people should try it too.

[dreamdancer 0]

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if you don't want to participate in the prayer, you can remain silent or walk out.

or you can make a principled stand against religious brainwashing. perhaps those who want to pray can do it in their own homes and not force it on others...

(and do you not understand the concept of separation of state and religion - what the school was doing was illegal)

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[Shotgun 1]

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If you don't want to participate in the prayer, you can remain silent or walk out.

Rather than having a Christian prayer (which, in this case, was basically just giving the finger to anyone who didn't agree with it), why not just have a "moment of silence" where every student can pray or not pray as they choose? This is a public (not Christian) school, after all.

I don't think I have an intense hatred for religious people, but I do relate to this kid because I have often felt alienated by the Christian majority "team" who would rather "win" than respect others' beliefs.

[rushmc 23]

Christian majority "team" who would rather "win" than respect others' beliefs.

[Shotgun 1]

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Christian majority "team" who would rather "win" than respect others' beliefs.

That works both ways

[rushmc 23]

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Christian majority "team" who would rather "win" than respect others' beliefs.

That works both ways

I assume you are talking about individuals not respecting others' beliefs, and I'll agree that that works both (all) ways. But I was referring to being alienated by a majority.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Damon Fowler has been embraced and welcomed by the atheist community. Atheist writers have been all over this story from the moment it broke: it's been covered on Friendly Atheist, Pharyngula, BlagHag, the Richard Dawkins Foundation, Atheist Revolution, The Thinking Atheist, Atheist Underworld, WWJTD, Rock Beyond Belief... the list goes on. Several atheist organizations are applauding Fowler for his courage.

American Atheists said of Fowler, "This kid deserves mad props for letting his principal know on no uncertain terms that ACLU would be contacted if the prayer wasn't canceled. Good job, Damon, you speak for the freedoms of people who are trapped in the bible-belt!" JT Eberhard, high school specialist for the Secular Student Alliance, said, "Despite the vile threats, bullying, and hatred his community has given him, we recognize Damon for what he is: a brave student speaking up for religious liberty and inclusion." Freedom From Religion Foundation spoke about "his courage in speaking out for his and other students' rights."

http://www.alternet.org/story/151086/high_school_student_stands_up_against_prayer_at_public_school_and_is_ostracized_demeaned_and_threatened?page=entire

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Shotgun 1]

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I assume you are talking about individuals not respecting others' beliefs, and I'll agree that that works both (all) ways. But I was referring to being alienated by a majority.

Yes to the first part and
It can be the same for the second part

I am commenting on this particular story. The kid was not disrespecting others' beliefs; he was asking that the school follow the law. He got ganged up on by the Christian majority in the school.

Yes, people of all beliefs, whether in a majority or minority, can and often do disrespect others' beliefs.

[billvon 3,118]

>Okay. For the one person out there you'll ruin the party. That's nice.

I can think of a great many times in our history when we have supported the rights of a minority against the will of the majority, even when that minority is very, very small. Indeed, I am sure you agree with 99% of those actions.

[Coreece 190]

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"...we recognize Damon for what he is: a brave student speaking up for religious liberty and inclusion."

That's a good one...what a bunch of comedians.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Southern_Man 0]

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"...we recognize Damon for what he is: a brave student speaking up for religious liberty and inclusion."

That's a good one...what a bunch of comedians.

Just some food for thought for some of you Christians backing school based and led prayer....Louisiana has a large Catholic population. If you are in a part of the state where the Catholics comprise the majority are you okay w/ public school prayers to the Virgin Mary?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Coreece 190]

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If you are in a part of the state where the Catholics comprise the majority are you okay w/ public school prayers to the Virgin Mary?

They can pray to an apparition of Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich for all I care...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[dreamdancer 0]

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If you are in a part of the state where the Catholics comprise the majority are you okay w/ public school prayers to the Virgin Mary?

They can pray to an apparition of Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich for all I care...

no, not 'they', will 'you' pray to the virgin mary if catholics are the majority in your school...

or to allah if muslims are a majority...

and if not, why not?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[lawrocket 3]

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>Okay. For the one person out there you'll ruin the party. That's nice.

I can think of a great many times in our history when we have supported the rights of a minority against the will of the majority, even when that minority is very, very small. Indeed, I am sure you agree with 99% of those actions.

Absolutely. My issue here is his stated emotional distress at the thought of hearing a religious statement. It's a matter of respect, right? I look at dreamdancer as saying that religious belief is unworthy of respect. Religious speech is unworthy of protection.

It's why I say, "stick to the law. It's illegal. That's enough."

When a kid is talking about his hurt feelings it is done without regard or consideration to those of others. Apparently, plenty of other students had their feelings hurt byit - hence their responses. Once feelings come into it I suggest that they should be balanced. The "feelings" of the religious are no less legitimatye than those of the atheist. The statement of the kid - by its nature - implies that his feelings are more important than evertyone else's. Dreamdancer agrees.

I am an atheist. And I find the behavior repugnant. It's like using bible burning to fight bible thumping. Yes - it created a shitstorm because of the failure to recognize that other people's feelings are there and that those feelings have validity. Want to hurt someone's feelings? Tell that person he or she has been brainwashed.

As a note: dreamdancer - have you recognized the messianic nature of your posts? They are brainwashed! You know the truth? No you don't. You didn't even have all the facts straight. The school district and principal instrusted the student that invocation was canceled and a moment of silence would occur. She gave an invocation, anyway.

What is the truth? What is brainwashing? What is the answer for those who have been brainwashed? Shut them up? Isolate them? Reeducate them? What should be done?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Coreece 190]

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no, not 'they', will 'you' pray to the virgin mary if catholics are the majority in your school...

or to allah if muslims are a majority...

and if not, why not?

No, because they're not forcing me to...

I've learned to fuction in a free society without having to sue people for emotional stess.

I like to engage society's diversity...it allows an opportunity to be an influence.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[dreamdancer 0]

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The "feelings" of the religious are no less legitimatye than those of the atheist.

they can have as many 'feelings' as they want. what they can't do is force even a single schoolchild to pray to their fantasy being...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
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[dreamdancer 0]

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no, not 'they', will 'you' pray to the virgin mary if catholics are the majority in your school...

or to allah if muslims are a majority...

and if not, why not?

No, because they're not forcing me to...

that's because you're not actually in that school. you've got to imagine that you are and that's what they're telling you to do (as in the case of damon). you can imagine a god - surely you can imagine yourself praying to the virgin mary or allah. you wouldn't want to hurt their feelings after all...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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what they can't do is force even a single schoolchild to pray to their fantasy being...

Do you really think that saying a prayer and praying are the same thing?

I can guarantee you that if somebody said a prayer out loud beside me, I would not be praying. Even if I was surrounded by 10,000 people saying a prayer, out loud all around me, I would not be praying.

Even when somebody says, let us pray for the homeless. Even then I can think and ponder the plight of the homeless without actually praying.

Never mind the brainwashing part. I think you need some prior brainwashing, before even considering that a possibility.