Sweeeet! NO Huckabee!

[dmcoco84 5]

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But if you only want to read the Bible and keep your scope of the world to JUST the Bible, well then i guess you are welcome to your narrow-minded view of things,- it is your right.

As I have said, several timeson this forum... I'm not a Christian.

I prefer... the "religion of America"

[dmcoco84 5]

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Perhaps you could enlighten us on some of the fantastic BENEFITS of religion in government over the past few centuries......something other than your own personal experience with 'God'

Ummm... let me think.

Declaration of Independence... Very Good!

Done.



Exactly right, 99.9% of human existence... has by tyrannical.

United States of America... a blip of freedom in an ocean of tyranny.

We are Exceptional.

Then the Founders began dying off... and everything went to shit, with Andrew Jackson at the helm.

[DanG 1]

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Participate in a religious ritual? I must have missed where they forced TK to give the prayer.

For some reason I think you might be upset if a local town council whipped out prayer mats and started praying toward Mecca before every meeting, even if the local residents weren't forced to join in.

- Dan G

[tkhayes 348]

The declaration of independence was a political, not a religious document. A lot of the issues were over taxes and oppression, not the stifling of any religious beliefs.

wow, do you ever fact check?

but of course the statement about founding fathers dying off and everything going to shit is not a fact - it is an opinion.

And you are welcome to that as well. Show me where religious zealots wrote the Declaration on account of religion, and you might have something.

And 'America' is not a religion, again, your opinion, but so far from fact, that it cannot be recognized by anyone but you.

[dmcoco84 5]

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The Holocaust (Anti-Semetic) - Bad

You should read this book:
Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy

Church goers... as the trains full of Jews passed by... sang LOUDER, so as not to hear the cries.

SILENCE IN THE FACE OF EVIL IS ITSELF EVIL:
GOD WILL NOT HOLD US GUILTLESS.
NOT TO SPEAK IS TO SPEAK.
NOT TO ACT IS TO ACT.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer

[tkhayes 348]

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SILENCE IN THE FACE OF EVIL IS ITSELF EVIL:
GOD WILL NOT HOLD US GUILTLESS.
NOT TO SPEAK IS TO SPEAK.
NOT TO ACT IS TO ACT.

silence in the face of evil is often fear. (N Korea, Iran, Syria, and the USA in the 1600's for example)

God will not hold me 'anything'

Not to speak is a right guaranteed under the Constitution and can mean many things. Unless of course, you do not believe in the Constitution.

Not to Act? well in what context?

[dmcoco84 5]

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The declaration of independence was a political, not a religious document. A lot of the issues were over taxes and oppression, not the stifling of any religious beliefs.

No... its a God/Anti-Slavery document.

Your thoughts are noted... and as with Quade, I will be putting those thoughts to shame in the very near future.

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Show me where religious zealots wrote the Declaration on account of religion, and you might have something.

Seriously, its like talking to a "Wall..."

Read the Second Treatise of Government, smart guy!

John Locke... have said it before as well.



Well... this thread has about run its course.

We'll chat more later

I'm getting ready to talk about some Koch with Amazon.

[Coreece 190]

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Please refer to my sig line...

Ya, your bias is quite clear.

You seem to be forgetting that Science will also fly you into the thermonuclear era...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=238_1176682608

Thanks Alot!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Amazon 7]

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If you want to live in 1776 - well good luck with that. You would have to first give up your computer, phone, car, job, grown your own cotton and slaughter some animal for dinner......have at it.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Very Ignorant...

Why 1776? I would at least want to live in 1789ish... after the adoption of the Constitution. Much better than the Articles of Confederation.

And even if I had a flying car... the (Second) Constitution, still works.***

Soooo like we see today... with all those chickenhawks who are RAH RAH RAH WAR WAR WAR yet always seem to have a boil on their ass or a bad knee or.. one of a thousand excuses.. you wish to misss all that messy war stuff.... yet reap the benefits.

[Amazon 7]

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You just made TK's argument for him. I'll paraphrase: "If you want to participate in your local government, you must participate in a religious ritual." How is that okay?

Uh.. sorry... Mikee is just too busy to participate in any kind of local government... perhaps after he retires some day to that great pension he has "earned"

[stevebabin 0]

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Please refer to my sig line...

Ya, your bias is quite clear.

You seem to be forgetting that Science will also fly you into the thermonuclear era...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=238_1176682608

Thanks Alot!

Um...You're welcome?

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Coreece 190]

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Please refer to my sig line...

Ya, your bias is quite clear.

You seem to be forgetting that Science will also fly you into the thermonuclear era...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=238_1176682608

Thanks Alot!

Um...You're welcome?

I was sarcastically thanking science for giving us the ability to kill millions of people in an instant. If you're gonna steal a sigline, how about stealing something that's not so ridiculously biased. You may also want to credit your source.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stevebabin 0]

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Please refer to my sig line...

Ya, your bias is quite clear.

You seem to be forgetting that Science will also fly you into the thermonuclear era...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=238_1176682608

Thanks Alot!

Um...You're welcome?

I was sarcastically thanking science for giving us the ability to kill millions of people in an instant. If you're gonna steal a sigline, how about stealing something that's not so ridiculously biased. You may also want to credit your source.

I'm getting under your skin again, aren't I?
I was sarcastically thanking you for something that happened before I was born.
The quote is a paraphrase of something my friend Wolf Grulkey said. I don't know if he was the author or not, nor do I care. The sentiment rings true. It gives me pleasure that it pisses you off.
I'm just as biased as you.
Do you have a point?

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[freethefly 6]

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its a God/Anti-Slavery document.

WOW!
It is not a God/Anti-Slavery document.

Kindly educate yourself.

The DOI's main body are charges against the King.
Nowhere in the finished draft does it mention slavery. The original draft did make charge that the King allowed the trade to continue, but offered freedom to slaves who would vow allegiance to Britain and take up arms against the colonies. The text was removed to garner support from the southern states.
Reference to a god is in the context of nature.
"Their creator" implies that you are free to see it as you please.
The DOI is not a religious nor is it an anti-slavery document.

You should try actually reading it.
I am posting it to help you out.

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

— John Hancock

New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts:
John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

Connecticut:
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

New York:
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

New Jersey:
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Delaware:
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

Maryland:
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia:
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

North Carolina:
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

Georgia:
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Coreece 190]

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The quote is a paraphrase of something my friend Wolf Grulkey said. I don't know if he was the author or not, nor do I care.

Just wondering...it was just used in a reply to you last month. Coinsidence?

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The sentiment rings true. It gives me pleasure that it pisses you off.

You really think I care that you compare the good things in science to the evil in Islam?

I just find your bias remarkable and I'm just pointing it out.

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I'm just as biased as you.

No...I can look at the negative and positive of science, you obviously can't...then you use that bias in a ridiculous blanket argument against all religion.

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Do you have a point?

Science and religion can both be evil.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stevebabin 0]

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Science and religion can both be evil.

Oh. That's your point. I agree.
(Now wasn't that easy?)

As far as my sig line, if it was used in a post a month ago then yes, it's a coincidence. Wolf Grulkey (DZO of Skydive Skyranch) was the first to bring it to my attention. As I said, I don't know the original author, nor do I care...it fits how I feel about religion very well.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[dmcoco84 5]

Mm, Okie Dokie.

Noted as well.


Yet you like Ron Paul...? That's puzzling.

[dmcoco84 5]

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"Their creator" implies that you are free to see it as you please.

Then what does Happiness mean?

Not the "Joy" definition... the second definition. The one I asked about before.

The one... the Founders used.

Someone got close before, but, "couldn't seal the deal."

[freethefly 6]

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Mm, Okie Dokie.

Noted as well.


Yet you like Ron Paul...? That's puzzling.

Yes, I do like Ron Paul, yet there are things about him that I do find disturbing.
There are things about both of the Bush's that I like, as there are things that I do not like.
The same goes for Obama and every President down to George Washington.
I understand that they are just humans and that no human is special over another. We are all from the same elements. We will all return to such when we die. Nothing special about it.
It would be nice if we could all just get along, from womb to tomb. It would make the journey through life much more pleasant.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Coreece 190]

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Science and religion can both be evil.

Oh. That's your point. I agree.
(Now wasn't that easy?)

Ok...so now can you see how that effectively renders your sigline useless? It may sound cool, but it serves no practical purpose. Then you boast in it and start reffering people to it, as if it resembles some significant source of Babinian enlightenment...

Thanks for playing...good night folks.

Next week on "Exposing Bias," we'll take a glance how "Men are always right, and women are always wrong..."

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[freethefly 6]

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Science and religion can both be evil.

Oh. That's your point. I agree.
(Now wasn't that easy?)

Ok...so now can you see how that effectively renders your sigline useless? It may sound cool, but it serves no practical purpose. Then you boast in it and start reffering people to it, as if it resembles some significant source of Babinian enlightenment...

Thanks for playing...good night folks.

Next week on "Exposing Bias," we'll take a glance how "Men are always right, and women are always wrong..."

Science didn't fly a plane into a building. Someone shouting "Allah" did.

One can claim that it is science that is responsible for NBC warfare. It is not. It is mans misuse of a tool.
A hammer is no more responsible for the death of another human when struck over the head than a gun is when the trigger is pulled. It is mans misuse of a tool.
I will also argue the same for religion. It is how we use any tool that makes it good or gives it a bad name.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[stevebabin 0]

My sig line refers how the true believers can be made to do things that are goat-fuck stupid. I could have employed any of of a myriad of events that illustrate this, from most of the worlds religions. The religious idiots that were convinced to fly planes into buildings sums it up well enough. I'll add references to your religion if it will make you feel better.
I never credited myself with being the author of my sig line, like you imply. Likewise, I never said that religion was completely evil like you seem to think.

Will you require your wife to tune in next week?

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Coreece 190]

This did cross my mind and I must agree.

This also supports the idea of why his sigline is useless. The terms of the analogy are not relative...it's pointless.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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I never credited myself with being the author of my sig line, like you imply.

Most plagarists don't...it's assumed unless otherwise noted.

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Likewise, I never said that religion was completely evil like you seem to think.

That's what your sigline implies.

Science is always good...Religion is always bad

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stevebabin 0]

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I never credited myself with being the author of my sig line, like you imply.

Most plagarists don't...it assumed unless otherwise noted.

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Likewise, I never said that religion was completely evil like you seem to think.

That's what your sigline implies.

Science is always good...Religion is always bad

Once again...your perception is not based in reality.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."