BP to Agents: Make Fewer Arrests

[Kennedy 0]

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BP Agents Told to Stop Making Illegal Immigrant Arrests

COCHISE COUNTY, AZ – An Arizona sheriff says U.S. Border Patrol officials have repeatedly told him they have been ordered to reduce — at times even stop — arrests of illegal immigrants caught trying to cross the U.S. border.

Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever stated that a supervisor with the U.S. Border Patrol told him as recently as this month that the federal agency’s office on Arizona’s southern border was under orders to keep apprehension numbers down during specific reporting time periods.

“The senior supervisor agent is telling me about how their mission is now to scare people back,” Dever said in an intervie. “He said, ‘I had to go back to my guys and tell them not to catch anybody, that their job is to chase people away. … They were not to catch anyone, arrest anyone. Their job was to set up posture, to intimidate people, to get them to go back.”

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witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Amazon 7]

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BP Agents Told to Stop Making Illegal Immigrant Arrests

COCHISE COUNTY, AZ – An Arizona sheriff says U.S. Border Patrol officials have repeatedly told him they have been ordered to reduce — at times even stop — arrests of illegal immigrants caught trying to cross the U.S. border.

Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever stated that a supervisor with the U.S. Border Patrol told him as recently as this month that the federal agency’s office on Arizona’s southern border was under orders to keep apprehension numbers down during specific reporting time periods.

“The senior supervisor agent is telling me about how their mission is now to scare people back,” Dever said in an intervie. “He said, ‘I had to go back to my guys and tell them not to catch anybody, that their job is to chase people away. … They were not to catch anyone, arrest anyone. Their job was to set up posture, to intimidate people, to get them to go back.”

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Ya know.. rather than just puttin those folks right back over the border.. I wonder if a LOOOONG boat ride to Patagonia is in order so it takes them longer to walk back to our border.

[DanG 1]

C'mon Kennedy, you're usually one of the more reliably honest posters here. You should at least acknowledge that the article continues to say that the BP vehemently denies Dever's claims, and the Sherrif in the next county over hasn't heard anything similar to what Dever's is saying. The whole article is based on the claim of one elected sherrif, and isn't corroborated by anything or anyone.

- Dan G

[Kennedy 0]

People said the same thing about Project Gunrunner when it first hit the light. I don't give much benefit of the doubt when it comes to alleged government screwups and spin doctoring. As for being the "claim of one elected sherrif, and isn't corroborated by anything or anyone," well, he states his sourcse are BO Agents and supervisors, and I understand if BP Agents aren't too keen on throwing away their career to be the first whistleblower.

Be that as it may, I appreciate the vote of confidence, even if it excludes the thread OP.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[SkyDekker 1,465]

A sherrif is elected right?

So, we have a politician making claims, generally denied even by those in the same position. His sources are unnamed, just positions are given.....

Are you sure you are not agreeing with him bacuse it fits with your own outrage?

[Kennedy 0]

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A sherrif is elected right?

In most places, yes. In this case, yes.

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So, we have a politician making claims, generally denied even by those in the same position. His sources are unnamed, just positions are given.....

Well he's not a politician as in elected lawmaker. He's elected to be the highest law enforcement officer in the county. (I think he runs the local jail and security for state courts in the county, but I'm not sure)

I don't see any other sheriffs denying his claims. The article mentioned one sheriff who said he hadn't heard the same claims. He didn't say Sheriff Dever was lying. If you were a BP agent with claims of wrongdoing by superiors in Washington, would you talk[url] to a sympathetic ear, or someone unlikely to believe you?

His sources are unnamed. So were many other whistleblowers to start. Hell, half the articles in today's paper list "unnamed sources".

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Are you sure you are not agreeing with him bacuse it fits with your own outrage?

I'm not saying his claims are true. I'm saying I'm not discounting them yet. It is an interesting and not impossible story. At this point I wonder if it would even qualify as improbable.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Andy9o8 2]

It's a classic "he said, she said". An unsubstantiated allegation - not just that, but a repetition of hearsay, and a refusal to name first-party sources. (Not unlike some posts in an Incidents thread...) And then there's a vigorous denial.

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It is an interesting and not impossible story. At this point I wonder if it would even qualify as improbable.

"Not impossible?" "Not improbable?" Come on. Sorry, but those are, at best, warm-fuzzies that mean nothing. People want to believe something, so they'll believe it.

Tell you what: let's look at this from a standpoint of journalistic due diligence. During the Watergate scandal, the Washington Post, which broke the story, received tons of allegations of one instance or another of wrongdoing from confidential or anonymous sources. The editor, Ben Bradlee, had a rule: nothing, no matter how plausible-sounding, got published unless the source's claim had been independently verified or at least corroborated by another known source.

That's the standard that this news-site should have used - not to have run the story right away with the Sheriff's un-verified double- or triple-hearsay, but used the Sheriff's claim as a STARTING POINT to do good old-fashioned investigative legwork; get the claims verified (or reliably refuted), and THEN run the story. This news-site was lazy. But I guess it's OK, because people are gullible and will eat it up.

[funjumper101 15]

Gullible RWCs jump on the bandwagon as some nutter says something that is FALSE!!!

Are you all too stupid to do any fact checking?

That would be a YES, YES Indeed!!! I don't care to check the veracity of a statement that completely fits with my fucked up world view. I'll just post it on an Interent forum

[jclalor 12]

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***BP Agents Told to Stop Making Illegal Immigrant Arrests

COCHISE COUNTY, AZ � An Arizona sheriff says U.S. Border Patrol officials have repeatedly told him they have been ordered to reduce � at times even stop � arrests of illegal immigrants caught trying to cross the U.S. border.

Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever stated that a supervisor with the U.S. Border Patrol told him as recently as this month that the federal agency�s office on Arizona�s southern border was under orders to keep apprehension numbers down during specific reporting time periods.

�The senior supervisor agent is telling me about how their mission is now to scare people back,� Dever said in an intervie. �He said, �I had to go back to my guys and tell them not to catch anybody, that their job is to chase people away. � They were not to catch anyone, arrest anyone. Their job was to set up posture, to intimidate people, to get them to go back.�

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I think it's an outrage that British Petroleum is dictating our border policies.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Well he's not a politician as in elected lawmaker.

Right, it's a standard PR move for elected positions.

Look at all the good things I am trying to do for you people who vote for me. But, the Man is keeping me down. Vote for me and I will continue to fight the Man.

[shropshire 0]

Damned Oil Companies ...

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Kennedy 0]

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It's a classic "he said, she said". An unsubstantiated allegation - not just that, but a repetition of hearsay, and a refusal to name first-party sources. (Not unlike some posts in an Incidents thread...) And then there's a vigorous denial.

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It is an interesting and not impossible story. At this point I wonder if it would even qualify as improbable.

"Not impossible?" "Not improbable?" Come on. Sorry, but those are, at best, warm-fuzzies that mean nothing. People want to believe something, so they'll believe it.

I agree. But again, that's exactly what people said about Gunwalker. I'm not saying it's true. The sheriff is. Do I believe him? Well, I believe him more than Border Patrol talking heads in DC, but that's not saying much.

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Tell you what: let's look at this from a standpoint of journalistic due diligence. During the Watergate scandal, the Washington Post, which broke the story, received tons of allegations of one instance or another of wrongdoing from confidential or anonymous sources. The editor, Ben Bradlee, had a rule: nothing, no matter how plausible-sounding, got published unless the source's claim had been independently verified or at least corroborated by another known source.

That's the standard that this news-site should have used - not to have run the story right away with the Sheriff's un-verified double- or triple-hearsay, but used the Sheriff's claim as a STARTING POINT to do good old-fashioned investigative legwork; get the claims verified (or reliably refuted), and THEN run the story.

I wish I could say I miss that sort of reporting, but to be honest most of it was gone before I was a dirty thought in my father's mind. Nowadays reporters are too afraid of offending politicians and their lackeys to pry into things. Anyone no toe-ing the line gets shut out of events. It's dirty, but that's what they've let it get to.

Look how long it took any national news sources to run with the GunWalker story. They all pissed on it as conspiracy nut ravings, until the BATFE agents starting coming out and going on records. Agents. Plural.

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This news-site was lazy. But I guess it's OK, because people are gullible and will eat it up.

What news sources aren't lazy? How many of them still run investigative reporting? When is the last time you read something that was well researched, well written, and in a major paper?

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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Gullible RWCs jump on the bandwagon as some nutter says something that is FALSE!!!

So now the Sheriff is "some nutter"?

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Are you all too stupid to do any fact checking?

Well, I wish the reporter had dug deeper. Maybe they are right now. Have you got any FACTS which show Sheriff Dever's statements are false? Or so you just believe the BATFE's denial because that fits with your world view?

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That would be a YES, YES Indeed!!! I don't care to check the veracity of a statement that completely fits with my fucked up world view. I'll just post it on an Interent forum

Congratulations on a wonderful personal attack. Of course, in addition to being poor manners and failing to abide by forum rules, you failed to post anything remotely relevant to the actual poster.

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[Andy9o8 2]

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Have you got any FACTS which show Sheriff Dever's statements are false? Or so you just believe the BATFE's denial because that fits with your world view?

You asked this of someone else, but I'll weigh in.
My answer to your question is:

Neither. As the party making the claim in public, Sheriff Dever bears the initial burden of evidence to support his claim, especially since it's a supposed repeating of someone else's hearsay. In Dever's case, that could take the form, for example, of corroboration by someone who actually heard the Border Patrol employees' supposed statement. If Dever sustains this initial evidentiary burden - in Legalese, sometimes called the "burden of production" - the burden then shifts to the doubters/deniers to produce counter-evidence sufficient to rebut Dever's evidence.

[Bolas 5]

Has anyone looked at the Border Patrol arrests? Are they declining?

While it can't be proven yet what the sherrif said is true or not, by bringing it up he's gotten additional people talking about and possibly looking into it.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Has anyone looked at the Border Patrol arrests? Are they declining?

While it can't be proven yet what the sherrif said is true or not, by bringing it up he's gotten additional people talking about and possibly looking into it.

Well, each such issue must rise or fail on its own. In the cases of Obama's birth certificate and academic record, it failed, under that standard. As for this issue... I guess we'll see. That is, if it gains any traction.

[Kennedy 0]

(A) I agree, at least in a courtroom or debate club setting.

(B) Accusations, esp when repeated often enough by enough parties, seems to be enough to convict someone in the public eye.

(C) I wish "the public" were smart enough to consider A and the effect it should have on B.

(D) You don't need to explain the legalese and debate club/forensics/logic terms, at least not to me. I spend too much time in the courtroom as it is. Truly annoying is the public defender rookie who thinks you can't offer an argument without the phrase "jointly and severally" thrown in. I guess he heard one too many judgments involving restitution or civil liability, and now it comes out every time he opens his mouth.

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[virgin-burner 1]

shortage of cheap labour!? gardening season!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[shropshire 0]

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shortage of cheap labour!? gardening season!?

Someones has to do the jobs that the general citizens WONT do.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[popsjumper 2]

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..."mission is now to scare people back,”

I like this idea. Saves on jail costs and transportation costs and allows the agents to have some spook fun.
Everybody wins!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Gravitymaster 0]

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shortage of cheap labour!? gardening season!?

Someones has to do the jobs that the general citizens WONT do.

With a nearly 10% unemployment rate, it's safe to assume that the reason quite a few don't want these kinds of job is because it's easier to kick back on unemplyment compensation than it is to work. It's also an incorrect assumption that illegal's only take jobs American don't want.

[masterrig 1]

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..."mission is now to scare people back,”

I like this idea. Saves on jail costs and transportation costs and allows the agents to have some spook fun.
Everybody wins!

Reminds me of a story told to me by a good friend of mine and retired Border Patrol Agent.
He and his partner were working the Rio Grande one night, in the Dona, Texas area. They were working the area of a foot bridge, when they heard voices coming across the river. My friend's partner ducked under the foot bridge and when the first illegal got close, he reached-up, grabbing the illegal's ankle, yelling; "CHUPA CABRA!" All five illegals turned and ran back to Mexico!


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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shortage of cheap labour!? gardening season!?

Someones has to do the jobs that the general citizens WONT do.

With a nearly 10% unemployment rate, it's safe to assume that the reason quite a few don't want these kinds of job is because it's easier to kick back on unemplyment compensation than it is to work. It's also an incorrect assumption that illegal's only take jobs American don't want.

Exactly! Those folks are no different... why settle for some menial job when you can get the higher paying jobs.


Chuck

[Kennedy 0]

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..."mission is now to scare people back,”

I like this idea. Saves on jail costs and transportation costs and allows the agents to have some spook fun.
Everybody wins!

Everybody wins, except for border security and dangerous felon apprehension. Other than that, sure, why not just scare them away?

Sure we saw them tonight, let's scare the back and let them cross again tomorrow. No reason to see if they're smuggling drugs or guns, or to see if they're wanted for serious crimes.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[masterrig 1]

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Quote

Quote

..."mission is now to scare people back,”

I like this idea. Saves on jail costs and transportation costs and allows the agents to have some spook fun.
Everybody wins!

Everybody wins, except for border security and dangerous felon apprehension. Other than that, sure, why not just scare them away?

Sure we saw them tonight, let's scare the back and let them cross again tomorrow. No reason to see if they're smuggling drugs or guns, or to see if they're wanted for serious crimes.

...and now that binLaden is dead, Border Patrol needs to stop EVERYONE coming across the border. Both North and South borders as well as our coastline. Things could get ugly. Those folks are going to want vengeance!!


Chuck