rushmc 23 #26 April 25, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Both take faith By definition, No. Atheism does not require faith. Atheism is not the intellectual presence of anything; it is simply an absence of any faith or belief in anything spiritual or supernatural. Nothing more. By defintion? Ok but I still dont agree Athiesm is the belief there is nothing there both require a certain level of faith to sustain the belief I disagree. Athiesm is the belief that there is nothing there because there is no evidence that there is anything. With out evidence faith is not needed. I dont agree there is no evidence I think those that say there is none are fooling themselves which if one thinks about it, is exactly the same thing those that do not believe say of believers They see no eveidence therefore how can someone be so (insert adjective here) to believe otherwise?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #27 April 25, 2011 What evidence is there? If there is evidence then there would be no need for faith. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #28 April 25, 2011 QuoteWell, I do see in general two kinds of atheists:There is no evidence in favor of a deity, I don't believe in one, next topicThere is no God, absolutely none, and I'm going to do whatever is in my power to convince you of it. That second one can come off an awful lot like faith.. Same could be said of Cubs fans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #29 April 25, 2011 QuoteWhat evidence is there? For which side of the argument? Either side can make nearly the same claims for their own beliefs as we have seen here almost daily. Science cant explain it so it must be a god or Science can or thinks it can explain it so it must be nature so no got involved"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #30 April 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhat evidence is there? For which side of the argument? Either side can make nearly the same claims for their own beliefs as we have seen here almost daily. Science cant explain it so it must be a god or Science can or thinks it can explain it so it must be nature so no got involved You must be confused. There is no evidence of a god any god so I can only conclude gods don't exist. Just because science can't explain everything doesn't mean god or gods exist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #31 April 25, 2011 >I dont agree there is no evidence There's no evidence that there is a God, any more than there is evidence that there are a dozen Gods, or a hundred Gods, or that there is no God. If we had evidence it wouldn't be faith. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #32 April 25, 2011 Quote>I dont agree there is no evidence There's no evidence that there is a God, any more than there is evidence that there are a dozen Gods, or a hundred Gods, or that there is no God. If we had evidence it wouldn't be faith. Yes Kind of like you and AGW claims"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #33 April 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat evidence is there? For which side of the argument? Either side can make nearly the same claims for their own beliefs as we have seen here almost daily. Science cant explain it so it must be a god or Science can or thinks it can explain it so it must be nature so no got involved You must be confused. There is no evidence of a god any god so I can only conclude gods don't exist. Just because science can't explain everything doesn't mean god or gods exist. No no confusion on my part I do find it interesting that you need to argue you have no religion however"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #34 April 25, 2011 I think you are confused on that item also. I am challenging your characterizing atheism as a religion. It doesn't fit. Look it up in a dictionary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #35 April 25, 2011 QuoteI think you are confused on that item also. I am challenging your characterizing atheism as a religion. It doesn't fit. Look it up in a dictionary. I dont have to look it up I am seeing all I need here to support my position Sorry it is so hard for you to see I not that big a deal really To me anyway Seems to be a bigger issue for the athiests howerve But eveyon protects their own religion Even you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #36 April 25, 2011 uh Right, Like I am losing sleep over this! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #37 April 25, 2011 Quoteuh Right, Like I am losing sleep over this! No need to I am not"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #38 April 25, 2011 Quote A cousin is a full time pastor and has just been diagnosed with bowel cancer. Firstly he has stated that after much prayer he has decided to seek medical treatment. Why he would not consider medical treatment is beyond me. But worse someone wrote on his FB wall "when we pray healing ALWAYS comes". If you get a late stage cancer diagnosis, you do have a choice to make. You can choose to undergo aggressive treatment with chemo or radiation, and pretty much put yourself in bed for the remainder of your life with some chance of recovery. Or you can choose not to, and enjoy a certain period of time without too much detriment, and then deteriorate (or perhaps end your life on your own terms then). If the probability for success is less than 50%, I think it becomes pretty difficult. Perhaps it's easier for those with faith, as they can also believe that God will ensure they're part of that survival group. I'd be a bit reluctant to give up my outdoor, physical life for low odds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #39 April 25, 2011 QuoteWell, I do see in general two kinds of atheists:There is no evidence in favor of a deity, I don't believe in one, next topicThere is no God, absolutely none, and I'm going to do whatever is in my power to convince you of it. That second one can come off an awful lot like faith. Wendy P. Well stated. Most religious discussions (here anyway) aren't really about whether there is a God or gods though. The discussions are about statements like, "Without a higher power, atheists must just think morals come out of a pinata." or "Intelligent design deserves equal consideration in science classes as evolutionary biology." If atheists pipe up against statements like these vociferously, it should not be mistaken as just another page in the endless "is/are there god/s or not?" debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,603 #40 April 25, 2011 I agree entirely. And the arguments that go "if you believe in God you're stupid" are no different from the "if you don't believe in God you must think morals come out of a pinata" (I really like that picture, BTW -- even better than the problems coming out of Pandora's Box). When people stick to what they believe and state it as such, views tend to get respect. It's when they declare that others should see thing the same way that it gets heated, isn't it. Of course, that's what debate is about, but I'd be hard-pressed to call what goes on here debate sometimes. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #41 April 25, 2011 QuoteI agree entirely. And the arguments that go "if you believe in God you're stupid" are no different from the "if you don't believe in God you must think morals come out of a pinata" (I really like that picture, BTW -- even better than the problems coming out of Pandora's Box). When people stick to what they believe and state it as such, views tend to get respect. It's when they declare that others should see thing the same way that it gets heated, isn't it. Of course, that's what debate is about, but I'd be hard-pressed to call what goes on here debate sometimes. Wendy P. How come when you say it is a discussion? When I say it I am jumped like a $50 bill blowing down the street?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,603 #42 April 26, 2011 I put more words around it. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #43 April 26, 2011 Well, since your opinions seem to be science-based... QuoteThere is no evidence of a god any god so I can only conclude gods don't exist. I don't understand why that is the only conclusion you can come up with. How about others... There is no evidence of a god, any god so... - Scientists haven't yet discovered how to detect him. - Technology has not developed enough to detect him as yet. - Science may ultimately prove to be incapable of detecting him. - God has a sense of humor and is just screwing with us by dodging detection. - You live in a moonochrome world when in reality the world is many-colored ...just to highlight a few. QuoteJust because science can't explain everything doesn't mean god or gods exist. By the same token, it doesn't prove that he doesn't exist either.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #44 April 26, 2011 QuoteAthiesm is the belief that there is nothing there because there is no evidence that there is anything. With out evidence faith is not needed. Atheism is a faith-based belief system. You have faith that there is nothing there based on a perceived lack of any evidence pointing in any direction. No decision is a decision in and of itself.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #45 April 26, 2011 You've stated that athiesm is, in your opinion a religion. What is your definition of religion? Please be specific."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #46 April 26, 2011 QuoteWell, since your opinions seem to be science-based... QuoteThere is no evidence of a god any god so I can only conclude gods don't exist. I don't understand why that is the only conclusion you can come up with. How about others... There is no evidence of a god, any god so... - Scientists haven't yet discovered how to detect him. - Technology has not developed enough to detect him as yet. - Science may ultimately prove to be incapable of detecting him. - God has a sense of humor and is just screwing with us by dodging detection. - You live in a moonochrome world when in reality the world is many-colored ...just to highlight a few. QuoteJust because science can't explain everything doesn't mean god or gods exist. By the same token, it doesn't prove that he doesn't exist either. In exactly the same way science doesn't prove that unicorns don't exist."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 647 #47 April 26, 2011 QuoteQuote A cousin is a full time pastor and has just been diagnosed with bowel cancer. Firstly he has stated that after much prayer he has decided to seek medical treatment. Why he would not consider medical treatment is beyond me. But worse someone wrote on his FB wall "when we pray healing ALWAYS comes". If you get a late stage cancer diagnosis, you do have a choice to make. You can choose to undergo aggressive treatment with chemo or radiation, and pretty much put yourself in bed for the remainder of your life with some chance of recovery. Or you can choose not to, and enjoy a certain period of time without too much detriment, and then deteriorate (or perhaps end your life on your own terms then). If the probability for success is less than 50%, I think it becomes pretty difficult. Perhaps it's easier for those with faith, as they can also believe that God will ensure they're part of that survival group. I'd be a bit reluctant to give up my outdoor, physical life for low odds. Well said and on a similar note, I really struggle with terminal illness and having the option to self terminate. I am starting to believe that people should be given the option of avoiding a long and lingering death.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 647 #48 April 26, 2011 Quote Quote Athiesm is the belief that there is nothing there because there is no evidence that there is anything. With out evidence faith is not needed. Atheism is a faith-based belief system. You have faith that there is nothing there based on a perceived lack of any evidence pointing in any direction. No decision is a decision in and of itself. I think that is pretty well stated. Faith may not be the correct word to avoid controversy. I think this says it in a slightly different way and removes the F word"You have a theory that there is nothing there based on the lack of evidence pointing towards a God".Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #49 April 26, 2011 QuoteYou've stated that athiesm is, in your opinion a religion. What is your definition of religion? Please be specific. A belief based on a faith. A belief that may some impact or effect on how one lives his/life. To keep it simple"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #50 April 26, 2011 QuoteWell, since your opinions seem to be science-based... QuoteThere is no evidence of a god any god so I can only conclude gods don't exist. I don't understand why that is the only conclusion you can come up with. How about others... There is no evidence of a god, any god so... - Scientists haven't yet discovered how to detect him. - Technology has not developed enough to detect him as yet. - Science may ultimately prove to be incapable of detecting him. - God has a sense of humor and is just screwing with us by dodging detection. - You live in a moonochrome world when in reality the world is many-colored ...just to highlight a few. QuoteJust because science can't explain everything doesn't mean god or gods exist. By the same token, it doesn't prove that he doesn't exist either. Your rationalization does not make any sense at all. You are getting into the silly science. With out evidence you can't assume something might be there. Unicorns can't be proven to not exist, so why don't you believe in unicorns? Or Odin? Could you come up with a dumber rationalization for god??! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
