billvon 3,132 #26 April 11, 2011 Here's another upstanding member of the "less violent" religion: Parents: Baby killed because demon-possessed POSTED: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 7:11pm RUSK COUNTY - An East Texas couple appeared in a Rusk County court this morning, accused of bludgeoning a 13-month-old girl to death with a hammer. Investigators say it was the most gruesome scene involving a child they had ever seen. According to authorities, they received a 911 call Tuesday morning from 18-year-old Jessica Carson, the baby's mother. Carson, whom authorities say graduated last year from Longview High School with honors, told the dispatcher she and her live-in fiancé Blaine Milam, 18, briefly left the baby at home. They said upon their return to the house on County Road 2125 in Henderson, the child, Amora Bain Carson, was not breathing. That was just one of many stories the pair would tell authorities including the fact that dogs bit her, a car wreck occurred and the child killed herself with a hammer. Deputies say when they arrived, Amora was on her back in the bedroom, beaten to death with some kind of object, which they believe was a hammer. "She also had 15-20 bite marks on her body," said Lt. Reynold Humer with the Rusk County Sheriff's Dept. "I’ve seen a lot of (murder scenes) in my 30 years but this is worse I've ever seen." Officials believe Amora may have been tortured before her death with the bite marks and then later killed with the hammer or another tool. Lt. Humer said authorities became immediately suspicious of the couple and Carson eventually broke down to Texas Rangers. According to the arrest report, Carson “admitted to Ranger Kenny Ray that she was present when the defendant performed an exorcism of the demons possessing the body of their child, Amora Bain Carson. The defendant went on to say after her husband killed the baby, they drove to Henderson to a pawnshop to pawn items to pay for an exorcism service and officers were able to confirm those transactions. The defendant Carson said they then made up a story about leaving the baby alone and returning home and finding the baby dead.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #27 April 11, 2011 the distinction is that the Catholic Church doesn't have authority to say that this is ok, and I don't believe that they would defend the actions taken by people who appear to be mentally ill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #28 April 11, 2011 QuoteIf it were legal in the US to stone your wife to death for getting raped, would that make us a better or worse place? Couldn't grasp my point? Being legal would makes us neither better nor worst. We would only be the same, but with another horrendous law to live by, until change is brought by the people. Like I've said, fortunately we have a law against stoning people to death. QuoteGreat , me too. Want a cookie? My preference is chocolate chip. QuoteDealing with you makes me add words. Forgive me. You replied to my posting, therefore you initiated this dealing on your own. If you don't like it, stop posting. It is just that easy."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trafficdiver 8 #29 April 11, 2011 And which one of these was legally sanctioned by the State? Exactly, neither of them, In Indonesia it is condoned by law. Do you see the difference? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trafficdiver 8 #30 April 11, 2011 QuoteQuoteIf it were legal in the US to stone your wife to death for getting raped, would that make us a better or worse place? fortunately we have a law against stoning people to death. Exactly my point. In America, when psycho religious nutjobs kill and murder their wives/children/other peoples children, the law states they are punished. In Islamic countries, the law rules in favor of the nutjobs. Which system is better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #31 April 11, 2011 >the distinction is that the Catholic Church doesn't have authority to say that this is ok . .. Agreed - but a lot of people still heed what they say. >I don't believe that they would defend the actions taken by people who appear to be mentally ill. I also agree. But they do defend pedophiles when they are _not_ mentally ill - which, to me, is worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #32 April 11, 2011 QuoteAnd which one of these was legally sanctioned by the State? Exactly, neither of them, In Indonesia it is condoned by law. Do you see the difference? Not only condoned by law - enforced and executed by law. I've never seen so much floundering by apologetic libs - this is fun! mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #33 April 11, 2011 >In Indonesia it is condoned by law. >Do you see the difference? You're right! It's not a religious issue, it's a legal issue. By all means, let's get them to change their laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trafficdiver 8 #34 April 11, 2011 Quote You're right! . I know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #35 April 11, 2011 >I know. Now if you can just set Mark straight, all will be well! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #36 April 11, 2011 QuoteQuoteAnd which one of these was legally sanctioned by the State? Exactly, neither of them, In Indonesia it is condoned by law. Do you see the difference? Not only condoned by law - enforced and executed by law. I've never seen so much floundering by apologetic libs - this is fun! mh . I am sure the dead women or their children ... don not make as big of a distinction as you do Mark... There are quite a few sects where there is no punishment for those who followed the canons of their faith... the perpetrators get away with murder.... and protected by their neighbors... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #37 April 11, 2011 QuoteStoning has and does occur, right here in the U.S.. Thankfully, most of us don't take the laws of God that seriously and we have our own law against stoning. But I would not feel so all alone.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #38 April 11, 2011 Quote Quote Quote .......ANYWHERE IN THE WEST UNDER COLOR OF LAW. Betcha can't. mh . I suppose those communities in Utah that like to give the 13 or 14 year old daughters to the creepy old church elders as "wives" don't count... when and if any of those "wives" try to leave. Most of those LEO types in those places look out for the elders.. not those "wives" There are others as well. Ya can't have property runnin off ya know. Seek and ye shall find Speculation, not facts. mh . Out of sight.. out of Mind Mark...we get it... really... Anywhere that fundamentalists bludgeon any group.. because their BOOK says it is ok to do so, is wrong... no matter how much you wish to turn a blind eye to it. Women are a favored target across the world. It really is too bad you are incapable of seeing past those blinders.Of course it is not only wrong, but it also violates the law (...of the land, not the book) which I'm guessing is the point Mark was getting at if I am understanding his post correctly. As happens in MANY jurisdictions.. local LEO have different ways of handling those laws. If your 14 year old "wife" runs away... do you really want to contend that the "LAW" is there to protect her from her 60 year old "husband" or do you think the local officers will return her to her abuser??? Yeah, but wouldn't the LEO himself be violating the law by looking the other way. Was the 14 yo given involuntarily (or willingly for that matter) into slavery? Isn't boinking a 14 yo under the pretense of being "married" to her considered pedophilia ...even in Utah? Maybe not! Just asking. (I know, I know ....google) I'm sure that a lot of LEOs are "persuaded" to not perform their sworn duties for one reason or another. Doesn't make it legal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #39 April 11, 2011 The information is out there.. very few young women manage to escape.... many more KNOW they can never escape.. especially when they are 14 and already have a child by their prophet. You do not really think the local sherriff who is a member of the same sect.. the same stake..... is going to go against HIS upbringing and religion do you??? The girls are returned with no fanfare.. punished.... and reprogrammed by their abusers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #40 April 11, 2011 Quote Quote Stoning has and does occur, right here in the U.S.. Thankfully, most of us don't take the laws of God that seriously and we have our own law against stoning. But I would not feel so all alone.... ...everybody must get stoned"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #41 April 12, 2011 QuoteThe information is out there.. very few young women manage to escape.... many more KNOW they can never escape.. especially when they are 14 and already have a child by their prophet. You do not really think the local sherriff who is a member of the same sect.. the same stake..... is going to go against HIS upbringing and religion do you??? The girls are returned with no fanfare.. punished.... and reprogrammed by their abusers. I was only commenting on Mark's post that these things are illegal in most western countries. I know that that stuff sometimes goes on with the blessing of the local cops ....so what do we do about it? Torches and pitchforks? Assign a US Marshall to oversee their community (sort of a anti-religious police) to ensure that these illegal practices are stopped or prosecuted. Ban religion? Ban religions that do not respect the laws of the land (Is it the religion or some misguided adherents)? Vigorously prosecute these abusers as they are discovered? Just some suggestions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #42 April 12, 2011 Quote I also agree. But they do defend pedophiles when they are _not_ mentally ill - which, to me, is worse. The Catholic Church has tried to hide from this problem as long as possible. But it's now costing them a lot of money, never mind the cost of lost believers. They will end up paying out a godly sum of money for allowing it to occur. So again, not at all like what the OP is talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #43 April 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe information is out there.. very few young women manage to escape.... many more KNOW they can never escape.. especially when they are 14 and already have a child by their prophet. You do not really think the local sherriff who is a member of the same sect.. the same stake..... is going to go against HIS upbringing and religion do you??? The girls are returned with no fanfare.. punished.... and reprogrammed by their abusers. I was only commenting on Mark's post that these things are illegal in most western countries. I know that that stuff sometimes goes on with the blessing of the local cops ....so what do we do about it? Torches and pitchforks? Assign a US Marshall to oversee their community (sort of a anti-religious police) to ensure that these illegal practices are stopped or prosecuted. Ban religion? Ban religions that do not respect the laws of the land (Is it the religion or some misguided adherents)? Vigorously prosecute these abusers as they are discovered? Just some suggestions. Why would they start to enforce laws now..???? Never happened before when it comes to this kind of crap.... what makes you think it will change anytime soon. These people are VERY insular not to mention paranoid.. and many times apocalyptic in nature... think Koresh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #44 April 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe information is out there.. very few young women manage to escape.... many more KNOW they can never escape.. especially when they are 14 and already have a child by their prophet. You do not really think the local sherriff who is a member of the same sect.. the same stake..... is going to go against HIS upbringing and religion do you??? The girls are returned with no fanfare.. punished.... and reprogrammed by their abusers. I was only commenting on Mark's post that these things are illegal in most western countries. I know that that stuff sometimes goes on with the blessing of the local cops ....so what do we do about it? Torches and pitchforks? Assign a US Marshall to oversee their community (sort of a anti-religious police) to ensure that these illegal practices are stopped or prosecuted. Ban religion? Ban religions that do not respect the laws of the land (Is it the religion or some misguided adherents)? Vigorously prosecute these abusers as they are discovered? Just some suggestions. Why would they start to enforce laws now..???? Never happened before when it comes to this kind of crap.... what makes you think it will change anytime soon. These people are VERY insular not to mention paranoid.. and many times apocalyptic in nature... think Koresh. Sooo ...we just do nothing until some politician decides to send in some tanks and SF guys to burn 'em out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #45 April 12, 2011 Quote Quote Stoning has and does occur, right here in the U.S.. Thankfully, most of us don't take the laws of God that seriously and we have our own law against stoning. But I would not feel so all alone.... gasp for breath, breathe Alright you guys. So what's the problem? Different countries, different cultures, different religious beliefs, different laws... Yeah...so what. If it irritates you so much, go to the country du jour and work to change all that to fit whatever viewpoint YOU have. Good luck. Oh wait...we already do that....with bombs.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #46 April 12, 2011 >The Catholic Church has tried to hide from this problem as long as possible. With great success, and with astounding cleverness. >But it's now costing them a lot of money Yep. 2.6 billion total, worldwide, for the whole thing. They take in 7.5 billion a YEAR in the US alone. >never mind the cost of lost believers. ============== Catholic membership up; most Protestant churches down By KIMBERLEE HAUSS RELIGION NEWS SERVICE Feb. 18, 2010, 4:22PM U.S. membership has increased in the Catholic Church — the nation's largest Christian body — but the No. 2 Southern Baptist Convention, along with most mainline Protestant denominations, reported continuing decline, according to new figures released by the National Council of Churches. Both the Southern Baptists and Catholics reported membership losses in last year's Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches; in the 2010 edition, however, the Catholics reported a rebound, with a 1.5 percent growth rate, to more than 68 million members. =============== >They will end up paying out a godly sum of money for allowing it to occur. Yep. And take in an even more godly amount. Now, the big question is - does that mean that Christians support pedophilia, just because one of their religions does? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #47 April 12, 2011 Quote >But it's now costing them a lot of money Yep. 2.6 billion total, worldwide, for the whole thing. They take in 7.5 billion a YEAR in the US alone. 2.6B is a crapload on money. Think what opportunity they're losing. Quote ============== Catholic membership up; most Protestant churches down Both the Southern Baptists and Catholics reported membership losses in last year's Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches; in the 2010 edition, however, the Catholics reported a rebound, with a 1.5 percent growth rate, to more than 68 million members. =============== so what's the real trend, not the one year uptick? And how many more would they have if they hadn't been molesting their boys for decades? I miss Marg. Real data. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #48 April 12, 2011 >2.6B is a crapload on money. Think what opportunity they're losing. For them, it's a drop in the bucket, well worth it to protect their priests. >so what's the real trend, not the one year uptick? Well, there's no hard yearly data, since there is no reliable worldwide religion census. Most data comes from what the Church itself announces. A few data points: 1950 437 milllion 1970 654 million 2000 1031 million 2008 1166 million Do you want a longer time base than that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #49 April 12, 2011 Quote 2000 1031 million 2008 1166 million Do you want a longer time base than that? modern times is what's relevant for the pedophilia issue. And this growth is only a tad faster than the global population growth (1132B would be projected). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
