India Graduates Millions, but Too Few Are Fit to Hire

[ryoder 1,590]

This article is just full of surprises: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703515504576142092863219826.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Kennedy 0]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703515504576142092863219826.html

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India's economic expansion was supposed to create opportunities for millions to rise out of poverty, get an education and land good jobs. But as India liberalized its economy starting in 1991 after decades of socialism, it failed to reform its heavily regulated education system.

Business executives say schools are hampered by overbearing bureaucracy and a focus on rote learning rather than critical thinking and comprehension. Government keeps tuition low, which makes schools accessible to more students, but also keeps teacher salaries and budgets low. What's more, say educators and business leaders, the curriculum in most places is outdated and disconnected from the real world.

"If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys," says Vijay Thadani, chief executive of New Delhi-based NIIT Ltd. India, a recruitment firm that also runs job-training programs for college graduates lacking the skills to land good jobs

Not really surprised. They figured out socialism was killing their ability to progress. They liberalized their econmy and allowed changes to their government. And then they left the school system the way it was, and students failed to gain skills necessary to work in the modern world.

Meanwhile, back on the farm, people in this country are pushing for more socialism in the government and economy, and ensuring that those same issues hold back the potential of our public schools.

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Cheating aside, the Indian education system needs to change its entire orientation to focus on learning, says Saurabh Govil, senior vice president in human resources at Wipro Technologies. Wipro, India's third largest software exporter by sales, says it has struggled to find skilled workers. The problem, says Mr. Govil, is immense: "How are you able to change the mind-set that knowledge is more than a stamp?"

Yep. What's more important? That a student meets some government determined goal to the exclusion of all other measures, or that the student is exposed to science, culture, and comprehension testing?

What matters more? The standardized testing at the end of the year, or the improvement of the student?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Guest]

This is unsurprising.

How does one measure proficiency when the system itself is corrupt?

Witness the Air India pilot's license scandal last month (oh sh** - I just looked and there have been even more arrests!) - this is just the tip of the iceberg in a country where prestige and status are placed upon a certificate (like it's Charlie's golden ticket or something), but members of a corrupt society don't want to do the hard work it takes to earn it, to the point where government officials are colluding. Can you imagine something like that (phony commercial airline pilot's licenses) happening anywhere in the West? I cannot. And yes, I'm familiar with the scam artist who successfully masqueraded as an airline pilot, but he didn't have a corrupt FAA examiner signing him off, either.

Makes you wonder what the turbine bearings on an Air India jet look like...

And lest people say I turn a blind eye to the USA, I will not. The only thing kids are learning in public schools in America is how to be stoopid - they damned sure aren't learning to use logic, reason and knowledge.

edit for grammar

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[kelpdiver 2]

not too many surprises if you deal with offshore company sites (mine preferred the phrase "far-shoring) on a daily basis.

I have IT workers who are barely better than monkeys. They can take direct orders and execute repeatable tasks, just as a chimp can. But anything involving a single step of applied knowledge or critical thinking and it's rolling the dice. Never know what will happen.

But worse, because of the shortage of even minimally qualified people, as described in this article, these guys are quick to jump for another gig if they get unhappy with the current place, or if they're put on a performance improvement plan for sucking.

The Indians coming into the US on H1Bs are the cream of the crop. Their English is much better, and only improves with the local immersion, and their education is legitimate. As India's economy grows, I imagine more of them will stay home, but they're not numerous enough to make up for the shortage.

[freethefly 6]

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The only thing kids are learning in public schools in America is how to be stoopid - they damned sure aren't learning to use logic, reason and knowledge.

Kids are more tech-savvy today than when I was a kid in the 60s and 70s. When I went back to school a couple years ago, a calculator was required for the math classes. Back in high school in the 70s, using a calculator in class was an automatic F. Now it is required. Is that a good thing? You do not really have to think.
But, think about it, do we want people working on complicated formulas with a pad and pencil when technology can do it for us and at light speed? Technology makes us smarter, while lowering us down the ladder at the same time.
We're to deep and far too dependent on technology to turn back now. The last generation and all proceeding generations to come would be lost if they were to be transported back in time before the ability to be connected 24/7.
Is there really a need to commit to memory what is accessible at the stroke of a key? Is there any real need to actually learn math when simply knowing how to input data is all one really needs to learn?
Welcoming my son, welcome to the machine... (Pink Floyd)

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Kennedy 0]

The trouble is that it seems things like critical thinking, reading comprehension, and logic are not stressed. Too much focus on data points and regurgitated facts and ability to fill in the correct bubble. School should be a foundation. Too many come out like the Indian graduates in the OP. No foundation to build upon. No intellectual strength. And by whatever you hold dear, a second language should be required in addition to English.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[ryoder 1,590]

Quote

not too many surprises if you deal with offshore company sites (mine preferred the phrase "far-shoring) on a daily basis.

You don't need to convince me.
My last employer was one of the biggest names in IT.
Then the clueless mgt went into a binge of mindless outsourcing, and now the company no longer exits.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Guest]

Quote

The trouble is that it seems things like critical thinking, reading comprehension, and logic are not stressed. Too much focus on data points and regurgitated facts and ability to fill in the correct bubble. School should be a foundation. Too many come out like the Indian graduates in the OP. No foundation to build upon. No intellectual strength. And by whatever you hold dear, a second language should be required in addition to English.

Well-said. I do not think I could have put it better myself.

m
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

The only thing kids are learning in public schools in America is how to be stoopid - they damned sure aren't learning to use logic, reason and knowledge.

Kids are more tech-savvy today than when I was a kid in the 60s and 70s. When I went back to school a couple years ago, a calculator was required for the math classes. Back in high school in the 70s, using a calculator in class was an automatic F. Now it is required. Is that a good thing? You do not really have to think.
But, think about it, do we want people working on complicated formulas with a pad and pencil when technology can do it for us and at light speed? Technology makes us smarter, while lowering us down the ladder at the same time.
We're to deep and far too dependent on technology to turn back now. The last generation and all proceeding generations to come would be lost if they were to be transported back in time before the ability to be connected 24/7.
Is there really a need to commit to memory what is accessible at the stroke of a key? Is there any real need to actually learn math when simply knowing how to input data is all one really needs to learn?
Welcoming my son, welcome to the machine... (Pink Floyd)

I will let the words of a late, great sage speak for me here---

Paraphrased variant: A generation without history has no past — and no future.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[zoobrothertom 5]

Amen! I live in Korea and live this nightmare of rote memorization without active thought on a daily basis.

I've meet dozens of young engineers that can't identify or use most handtools much less any powertool more complicated than a drill. Changing a flat tire? Not a chance.

What's ironic is that the older folks are sharp. It's the test score generation that's coming up short in the creativity department. Time after time, I've been in a situation where a western class of 1st grade students would be jumping all the answer and not afraid to be wrong.

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[Guest]

Quote

Amen! I live in Korea and live this nightmare of rote memorization without active thought on a daily basis.

I've meet dozens of young engineers that can't identify or use most handtools much less any powertool more complicated than a drill. Changing a flat tire? Not a chance.

What's ironic is that the older folks are sharp. It's the test uscore generation that's coming up short in the creativity department. Time after time, I've been in a situation where a western class of 1st grade students would be jumping all the answer and not afraid to be wrong.

I spent two years in Korea. That's Eastern culture in a nutshell - Arabs are the same way about "losing face", which is what they feel if they do not know something. Better for the whole group to fail collectively than for one to be humiliated before his peers because he doesn't know the answer. And if he doesn't, he'll pretend he does.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."