Fox and Beck to go seperate ways....

[rushmc 23]

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I guess being half right is the best you can do

One of your esteemed politicians is going beserk over a cut of $50,000. If you think you can get out of the predicament you are in without raising taxes, you are part of the reason you are in the situation you are in.

Again
we could rasie taxes on everyone and it still would and will not cover the spending spree we are currently on

We do not have a tax rate problem
We have a spending problem

It really is that simple

Oh
And nearly all politions go beserk over spending increase reductions (not cuts as they like to call them)

So, I am part of the solution
We will be electing more who think the same in less than two years

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

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The fact that YOU seem obsessed with *US politics* makes me question if YOU know there are places outside the US.

You're posting on an internation website hosted on Canadian servers. Typical American arrogance to make it all about yourself

So, you ridicule Americans for talking about other countries (see any JR or MH thread), but then dog on Americans for talking about their own country?

That's some pretty high-proof hypocrisy right there, congrats.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Again
we could rasie taxes on everyone and it still would and will not cover the spending spree we are currently on

Which is why I said both need to take place. You don't have a little deficit problem and you don't have a little debt problem. You have an outrages deficit problem and an outrages debt problem, one that has been building for well over 40 years.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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So, you ridicule Americans for talking about other countries (see any JR or MH thread), but then dog on Americans for talking about their own country?

Actually if you followed along you would have noticed I was getting "dogged on" for talking about American politics.

The line you posted is clearly a tongue in cheek "explanation" as to why I as a non-american would be allowed to interject my opinion here.

I noticed by the way that JR's email must have gotten some dyslexia and replaced emails from the NRA by emails from the National Soda Association.

[billvon 3,132]

>We do not have a tax rate problem
>We have a spending problem

We have both. And until we get someone brave enough to admit that, nothing will change.

[nbblood 0]

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Do you think a more accurate portrayal of the churches teachings and beliefs will make jclalor see the church in a better light? I have gone to lds.org at your recommendation and haven’t found anything more logical than the youtube video jclalor linked to.

I don't have a problem if you don't find information "logical". I don't have a problem if people reject the principals and teachings of the church. Ultimately every individual will make up their own mind, and that's fine. I understand and respect others opinions and beliefs.

But I do take issue with someone trying to speak authoratatively on a subject when clearly they have no clue what they're talking about and providing false and misleading information. That doesn't just go for this, but any subject. (Imagine the guy that just made a tandem trying to speak authoratatively on skydiving.) My point is merely to clarify false and misleading information. Material was presented as "from the LDS church" and it very clearly was not among other problems with what was presented. If you don't care or it doesn't change your opinion, I'm ok with that. Although if you can't see the difference between the posted video and statements and actual principals and beliefs, I'd argue you didn't look very hard (and I'm ok with that too).

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[rushmc 23]

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>We do not have a tax rate problem
>We have a spending problem

We have both. And until we get someone brave enough to admit that, nothing will change.

Nope
Don’t agree
The gov is involved in way more than it should be
Until that is admitted to, no matter what the tax rate, incoming revenues will never keep up with the spending

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,132]

>The gov is involved in way more than it should be

Agreed. Iraq and Afghanistan would be the two biggest things.

>Until that is admitted to, no matter what the tax rate, incoming revenues will never
>keep up with the spending

And until the right wing admits that the problem has two sides, income will never keep up with what we owe.

[rushmc 23]

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>The gov is involved in way more than it should be

Agreed. Iraq and Afghanistan would be the two biggest things.

>Until that is admitted to, no matter what the tax rate, incoming revenues will never
>keep up with the spending

And until the right wing admits that the problem has two sides, income will never keep up with what we owe.

So it is a right wing problem?

Ok

Oh
While the wars are issues
entitlment spending is many times more the issue

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

By the way

Why did you leave the latest war off your list?

Costs are in the tens of billions already?

Or is this war ok cause it is Obamas?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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While the wars are issues
entitlment spending is many times more the issue

How? Social Security surpluses have been funding those wars for the past 3 decades. That won't be true much longer, but it's certainly the case for now. Medicare and SS are on both the income and spending side of the budget. Wars are only on one side. We're certainly not getting an ROI on Iraq or Afghanistan.

[rushmc 23]

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While the wars are issues
entitlment spending is many times more the issue

How? Social Security surpluses have been funding those wars for the past 3 decades. That won't be true much longer, but it's certainly the case for now. Medicare and SS are on both the income and spending side of the budget. Wars are only on one side. We're certainly not getting an ROI on Iraq or Afghanistan.

If I understand your question correctly

You are correct however. SS and medicare have grown into more than they should be or need to be! Bush helped that mess along with the new drug entitlement

These programs are meant to be safety nets not retirment benifits
That is where (some of) the problem lies

And your point to those moneis collected for SS medicare have been taken into the general fund is dead on too

It is just a big frigin mess

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,132]

>So it is a right wing problem?

Nope. It's a problem that both sides have. The GOP can't see that you have to increase income to balance the budget. The democrats can't see that you have to decrease expenditures to balance the budget. Together they are like a fat couple trying to diet:

"We have to exercise more to burn more calories!"
"Nonsense! We burn plenty of calories. You need to stop being such a pig and eating so much."
"That's not the problem at all! We have a perfectly normal diet. You have to get off your fat ass and start exercising."

And so they both sit on the couch, eat potato chips and argue. And get fatter.

[rushmc 23]

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>So it is a right wing problem?

Nope. It's a problem that both sides have. The GOP can't see that you have to increase income to balance the budget. The democrats can't see that you have to decrease expenditures to balance the budget. Together they are like a fat couple trying to diet:

"We have to exercise more to burn more calories!"
"Nonsense! We burn plenty of calories. You need to stop being such a pig and eating so much."
"That's not the problem at all! We have a perfectly normal diet. You have to get off your fat ass and start exercising."

And so they both sit on the couch, eat potato chips and argue. And get fatter.

I will agree that both sides are the problem
I do NOT agree that the incoming dollar amount is an issue howerve

This is a spending issues by and oversized bloated on money government

The right fix is to cut the sizie (ie departments and people) radically!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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This is a spending issues by and oversized bloated on money government

The right fix is to cut the sizie (ie departments and people) radically!

and they are doing it right?

let's see - we take in about what? ~$2T a year?
and then we want to spend what? ~$3T a year?

ok, and the parties are now fighting over the budget spending reductions. I assume one party wants to cut $1T and the other wants to cut a little more than that to start paying down the old debt....... right? it only makes sense.

I mean, it's not like they are quibbling over cutting $30 Billion or $40 Billion or something that just won't touch the short fall......

that would be stupid, indeed

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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>So it is a right wing problem?

Nope. It's a problem that both sides have. The GOP can't see that you have to increase income to balance the budget. The democrats can't see that you have to decrease expenditures to balance the budget.

right, so the Dems and Reps are trying cut $1T from the annual budget instead of little stupid impotent cuts/gestures

AND

the Dems are acknowledging that to make up the $1T if they can't cut it, that they'll have to tax EVERYBODY in the country more and not just 5-10% of the population


right? they both realize that?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

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Costs are in the tens of billions already?

I can only assume you put a question mark there because you are asking a question.

No, the action in Libya has not cost anywhere near tens of billions of dollars. Last I heard, the total cost was something like 0.7 billion.

- Dan G

[billvon 3,132]

>I will agree that both sides are the problem
>I do NOT agree that the incoming dollar amount is an issue howerve

Which is why this problem will never be solved.

[rushmc 23]

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>I will agree that both sides are the problem
>I do NOT agree that the incoming dollar amount is an issue howerve

Which is why this problem will never be solved.

Yep

You dont get it so I understand your answer

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Quote

Costs are in the tens of billions already?

I can only assume you put a question mark there because you are asking a question.

No, the action in Libya has not cost anywhere near tens of billions of dollars. Last I heard, the total cost was something like 0.7 billion.

36 Billion was the last report I read






my bad

36 million


which changes everything I guess

Only the cost and who is president is all that is important

Thanks for helping me understand

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

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36 Billion was the last report I read

Fascinating. Where did you read that?

Maybe you should read this: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ji9xb3vW6c9MpNTjsTELu7GMHI8g?docId=CNG.a75eb18b88e9d2bd744da1f674e29b55.b1

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

read my edit above

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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Quote

>I will agree that both sides are the problem
>I do NOT agree that the incoming dollar amount is an issue howerve

Which is why this problem will never be solved.

Yep

You dont get it so I understand your answer

I agree with Billvon that the fix will need to be two pronged (really three pronged). Reduce spending, add revenue as consequence of the reductions creating improved economy, add revenue by mandating it through higher taxes on every single citizen.

But increased revenue does not work in application because of the main problem 'spending'. But, any increase in revenue isn't applied to close the gap, it just increases spending that much and then a little more. Making the problem worse, not better.

So the falseness of the half 'solution' of more revenue is just another example of the real problem - SPENDING.


We have to fix SPENDING and fix it significantly - and that has to become a major shift in how government works and it has to be demonstrated for a long time before even thinking of increasing taxes - only then will increasing mandated revenue (taxes) be an added relief to closing the gap.

as for EVERYONE sharing in the load - if you don't pay taxes, you don't really give a crap if we operate in the hole. that has to be fixed too, else voting habits will never drive the proper legislation for responsible governance.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

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which changes everything I guess

It doesn't change anything. You're just as full of it as always.

- Dan G

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I agree with Billvon that the fix will need to be two pronged (really three pronged). Reduce spending, add revenue as consequence of the reductions creating improved economy, add revenue by mandating it through higher taxes on every single citizen.

But increased revenue does not work in application because of the main problem 'spending'. But, any increase in revenue isn't applied to close the gap, it just increases spending that much and then a little more. Making the problem worse, not better.

So the falseness of the half 'solution' of more revenue is just another example of the real problem - SPENDING.


We have to fix SPENDING and fix it significantly - and that has to become a major shift in how government works and it has to be demonstrated for a long time before even thinking of increasing taxes - only then will increasing mandated revenue (taxes) be an added relief to closing the gap.

as for EVERYONE sharing in the load - if you don't pay taxes, you don't really give a crap if we operate in the hole. that has to be fixed too, else voting habits will never drive the proper legislation for responsible governance.

+1