All in the name of god.

[stevebabin 0]

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Bullshit. I've seen good people turn to bad things for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with religion. You need a target to point you're frustrations at, whatever. Bottom line, people are fucking animals, and enlightened. We are always a mixed bag, and if we weren't killing each other in the name of god, it would be over a fucking twinkie.

Ok, so we disagree. I think there would be *less* war if we took religion out of it, you don't.

BTW, some twinkies are pretty damn good...and at the very least they're REAL...

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[stevebabin 0]

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http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/01/afghanistan.un.attack/index.html?hpt=T1
Fucking fundamentalist pricks...On both sides of this!

Terry Jones is in the same box with Fred Phelps. They have learned the secret to wealth with inflammatory advertising.

I agree. That box is a big one, and it's full of evil people. They know that if the religious are gullible enough to believe in god, they can be made to do damn near anything.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Nataly 38]

Hmmm... If religion is used as an excuse to make week and feeble people do horrible things... Isn't the original problem that those people live in conditions that make them susceptible to evil and corruption in the first place???

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[stevebabin 0]

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Hmmm... If religion is used as an excuse to make week and feeble people do horrible things... Isn't the original problem that those people live in conditions that make them susceptible to evil and corruption in the first place???

Yes, and the condition that makes them weak and feeble is ignorance(which is perpetuated by the church)
You are exactly right.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Nataly 38]

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Hmmm... If religion is used as an excuse to make week and feeble people do horrible things... Isn't the original problem that those people live in conditions that make them susceptible to evil and corruption in the first place???

Yes, and the condition that makes them weak and feeble is ignorance(which is perpetuated by the church)
You are exactly right.

I think this is grossly oversimplifying the problem... Just like it's grossly oversimplifying things to say that the riots and killings were merely the result of some fuckwit burning a book... It was most probably the trigger, but something doesn't explode like that without other deep, underlying problems.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[stevebabin 0]

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Hmmm... If religion is used as an excuse to make week and feeble people do horrible things... Isn't the original problem that those people live in conditions that make them susceptible to evil and corruption in the first place???

Yes, and the condition that makes them weak and feeble is ignorance(which is perpetuated by the church)
You are exactly right.

I think this is grossly oversimplifying the problem... Just like it's grossly oversimplifying things to say that the riots and killings were merely the result of some fuckwit burning a book... It was most probably the trigger, but something doesn't explode like that without other deep, underlying problems.

I really don't see how that could be in this case given that the mob formed to protest the burning a "holy" book. It was strictly about a clash of religion. Take religion out of the mix and there wouldn't have been a fuckwit burning a book or the mob that formed.

If it wasn't these people's fucked up version of belief in a nonexistant god, what in your opinion is the deep, underlying problem that caused all this to play out?

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Heatmiser 0]

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Hmmm... If religion is used as an excuse to make week and feeble people do horrible things... Isn't the original problem that those people live in conditions that make them susceptible to evil and corruption in the first place???

Yes, and the condition that makes them weak and feeble is ignorance(which is perpetuated by the church)
You are exactly right.

I think this is grossly oversimplifying the problem... Just like it's grossly oversimplifying things to say that the riots and killings were merely the result of some fuckwit burning a book... It was most probably the trigger, but something doesn't explode like that without other deep, underlying problems.

I really don't see how that could be in this case given that the mob formed to protest the burning a "holy" book. It was strictly about a clash of religion. Take religion out of the mix and there wouldn't have been a fuckwit burning a book or the mob that formed.

If it wasn't these people's fucked up version of belief in a nonexistant god, what in your opinion is the deep, underlying problem that caused all this to play out?

A deep fear and hatred of anyone different then themselves.

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[ryoder 1,590]

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Take religion out of the mix and there wouldn't have been a fuckwit burning a book or the mob that formed.

Who needs the fuckwit burning the book?
The Imams could have made up a story that it happened, and the results would have been exactly the same.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Take religion out of the mix and there wouldn't have been a fuckwit burning a book or the mob that formed.

Who needs the fuckwit burning the book?
The Imams could have made up a story that it happened, and the results would have been exactly the same.

Could have?

Try "Already Have".

There was a huge riot with somewhere around 100 dead a few years back after a story started about the US military interregators at Gitmo tearing up copies of the Koran. The protestors were really mad that someone would do that.

Of course when the truth turned out to be Gitmo prisoners tearing up the Koran in order to plug up the toilets in their cells to cause damage/disruption there wasn't any protests, riots or deaths.

Go figure.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[stevebabin 0]

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A deep fear and hatred of anyone different then themselves.

Made simple because of people's belief in god.(in this case especially) All you have to do is convince the "true believer" that the other group is offensive to their god.
I'm not saying that there aren't other reasons people committ atrocities, but religion is at the top of the list. It's much harder to bend the will of a population that actually thinks for themselves.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Guest]

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Take religion out of the mix and there wouldn't have been a fuckwit burning a book or the mob that formed.

Who needs the fuckwit burning the book?
The Imams could have made up a story that it happened, and the results would have been exactly the same.

And that kind of shit happens all the time. At least in this instance the rioting was about something real, instead of the phony stuff the imams make out of whole cloth to whip up the clueless, smelly masses. It doesn't get more self-serving than that.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 3,085]

>Take religion out of the mix and there wouldn't have been a fuckwit
>burning a book or the mob that formed.

Right. There would have been a fuckwit burning a flag or a fuckwit desecrating someone's grave or a fuckwit insulting someone's mother. The percentage of fuckwits (and those willing to follow them) remains about the same; religion is just a convenient way of expressing it.

(To put it another way, ban all religions and people would get just as incensed about the burning of flags, or the protests at funerals, and in about the same numbers.)

[stevebabin 0]

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>Take religion out of the mix and there wouldn't have been a fuckwit
>burning a book or the mob that formed.

Right. There would have been a fuckwit burning a flag or a fuckwit desecrating someone's grave or a fuckwit insulting someone's mother. The percentage of fuckwits (and those willing to follow them) remains about the same; religion is just a convenient way of expressing it.

(To put it another way, ban all religions and people would get just as incensed about the burning of flags, or the protests at funerals, and in about the same numbers.)

Maybe so...It just seems to me that less religion=less fuckwits. The converse also works, so maybe we should cure the "fuckwitery".
The answer in the long run may be better education, with more emphasis on critical thinking skills. It might make the population less prone to bullshit like these murders. (or Jihad, Holy wars, drowning your children, bombing clinics, honor killings, etc.)

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Guest]

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Maybe so...It just seems to me that less religion=less fuckwits. The converse also works, so maybe we should cure the "fuckwitery".
The answer in the long run may be better education, with more emphasis on critical thinking skills. It might make the population less prone to bullshit like these murders. (or Jihad, Holy wars, drowning your children, bombing clinics, honor killings, etc.)

Good luck with that. Tradition is more important than anything over here, which is why the culture is so backward and in decline everywhere. Don't forget that in addition to widespread superstition and just plain general ignorance, Arabs & muslims get indoctrinated early on to blame the "Crusaders" and the "Colonialist Powers" for everything that is wrong with their world, and both the imams and the secular autocrats play off this. It's slowly changing (witness Qatar, for example), but not quickly enough to head off all the rampant stupidity that makes up most of this part of the world.

One positive development is that the Internet (despite the censorship of it on the part of the autocrats [just try looking up "Apostates of Islam" from within any one of these countries. I have. It and just about anything critical of islam or the autocrats is blocked]) has allowed the raggedy-assed masses in these shit-holes to see that there are indeed other ways of living than what the imams and autocrats tell them. They have no idea how to achieve it, but they see it and resent the hell out of it that they don't have it, and thanks to the Internet and AJ, they are realizing that they've been lied to and used for a really long time, and they're mad about it.

Those are the minority, unfortunately. The majority are a bunch of dumb, dirty, smelly, inbred, goat-fucking, worthless pieces of human waste who go apeshit whenever the imams whip them up. Makes for great television.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[stevebabin 0]

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Those are the minority, unfortunately. The majority are a bunch of dumb, dirty, smelly, inbred, goat-fucking, worthless pieces of human waste who go apeshit whenever the imams whip them up. Makes for great television.

Man, that's a bit harsh calling them dirty...

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[billvon 3,085]

>Maybe so...It just seems to me that less religion=less fuckwits.

Stupidity is a universal constant, like the speed of light. You can no more eliminate stupidity by eliminating religion than you can eliminate risk-taking by banning skydiving.

>(or Jihad, Holy wars, drowning your children, bombing clinics, honor
>killings, etc.)

The number of people killed by secular/nonreligious governments far exceeds the number of people killed in religious wars. (This is not to say that religion does not get people killed; it does. We just kill a lot more people for other reasons.)

[Guest]

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Those are the minority, unfortunately. The majority are a bunch of dumb, dirty, smelly, inbred, goat-fucking, worthless pieces of human waste who go apeshit whenever the imams whip them up. Makes for great television.

Man, that's a bit harsh calling them dirty...

You haven't stood among a bunch of Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, etc., waiting to get through immigration......it's like being in the middle of a herd of goats...

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 3,085]

>Don't forget that in addition to widespread superstition and just plain
>general ignorance, Arabs & muslims get indoctrinated early on to blame
>the "Crusaders" and the "Colonialist Powers" for everything that is wrong
>with their world, and both the imams and the secular autocrats play off this.

True. Of course, many cultures do the same thing. For example, here in the US, a great many people are indoctrinated by the media and by political parties to believe that Islam is "out to get" the US, and that most Muslims are dumb, dirty, smelly, inbred, goat-fucking, worthless pieces of human waste. This works - fearful people are easy to manipulate, and much of the US media (and US politics) needs that fear to keep people from looking at _them_ too closely.

[Guest]

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>Maybe so...It just seems to me that less religion=less fuckwits.

Stupidity is a universal constant, like the speed of light. You can no more eliminate stupidity by eliminating religion than you can eliminate risk-taking by banning skydiving.

>(or Jihad, Holy wars, drowning your children, bombing clinics, honor
>killings, etc.)

The number of people killed by secular/nonreligious governments far exceeds the number of people killed in religious wars. (This is not to say that religion does not get people killed; it does. We just kill a lot more people for other reasons.)

Very true. However, numbers-wise I'd say that is simply because the secular death-machines are far more efficient (witness the Soviets and the NSDAP [Warning - Godwin Alert!]), whereas the religious whackos have to cope with all that ignorance. Getting simple blind obedience (as we have recently seen on the streets of Kandahar [did you notice that this shit always takes place on Fridays? There's a good reason!]) is easy, getting THINKING obedience (id est, those who are educated and know better but are doing it anyway) is much harder, but is certainly the scary aspect, for that is where the true destruction comes from - not from just any zealots, but SMART zealots.

Those primates on the streets of Kandahar make for good theater and make their imams feel powerful, but that's about as far as it goes.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

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>Don't forget that in addition to widespread superstition and just plain
>general ignorance, Arabs & muslims get indoctrinated early on to blame
>the "Crusaders" and the "Colonialist Powers" for everything that is wrong
>with their world, and both the imams and the secular autocrats play off this.

True. Of course, many cultures do the same thing. For example, here in the US, a great many people are indoctrinated by the media and by political parties to believe that Islam is "out to get" the US, and that most Muslims are dumb, dirty, smelly, inbred, goat-fucking, worthless pieces of human waste. This works - fearful people are easy to manipulate, and much of the US media (and US politics) needs that fear to keep people from looking at _them_ too closely.

I think you are oversimplifying things, but I certainly do agree that my countrymen are a pretty damned ignorant bunch too (in addition to being grossly overweight). I think we could further extrapolate and state that most of the world is in the same boat.

However, after five years in the muslim world (and with very little exposure to the US media - indeed, I have seen a great deal more of AJ than I have of CNN, etc., during the past two years) I think I can safely say that when it comes to whipping up hysteria that leads to riots, the imams have got it down to a science.

Is anybody besides a handful of inbred jerks paying any serious attention to this goofball pastor in Florida? I doubt it, whereas mass hysteria about the prophet (pbuh) being slighted is easy for the imams to do, so easy in fact that they don't need any real genuine provocation (and is burning a silly book any kind of provocation? And yes, seeing some douchebags burn my country's flag really annoys me, but if said douchebags want to engage in stupidity, which is really nothing more than attention-seeking pathology, well, they are allowed, much as I despise it); if there isn't something provocative handy, the imams will simply fabricate it. It makes no difference to Hadjii.

It's about tolerance versus intolerance. In Western & American society/culture, we tolerate a great deal, only to be told we aren't tolerant enough. Over here, however, intolerance is du rigeur.

mh
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ps - And if you think I'm intolerant, just ask an Arab what he thinks of Afghanis.

edit for spelling

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

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>Maybe so...It just seems to me that less religion=less fuckwits.

Stupidity is a universal constant, like the speed of light. You can no more eliminate stupidity by eliminating religion than you can eliminate risk-taking by banning skydiving.

Stupidity <> Ignorance.

Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is forever; and if by stupidity we mean cultural programming that selectively filters out reason, thus propagating ignorance ad infinitum, then, yes, we have yet to see the end of it.

And we never will as long as there are clever people who are adept at manipulating those who are not so clever - surely, this is the way of the world. One could say that the Eastern "mystery" religions (aka, the Big Three) are the most egregious manifestations of this cultural / psychological phenomenon; i.e., "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS." It worked for Hammurabi as well as it works for the imams today, most notably, that douchebag Muqtada Al-Sadr, and his fucking Mahdi Army.

mh
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edit to add: And don't you find it interesting that Hammurabi AND Muqtada are both from the exact same place?

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[shropshire 0]

I guess that you've never seen an episode of Springer or any of the other almost countless shows with Brain Dead audiences?

Y'see there are stupid, ignorant sheeple all over the world.

Don't think for a moment that the Middle East has got that particular market cornered

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[ryoder 1,590]

Jerry Springer was on NPR's "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" last week.
He was hilarious!
He doesn't even try to defend the show.
Some lines I recall:

"Every show is the same; The only thing different are the people's reactions."

"All the guests are pretty much the same; Some just have more teeth than others."

I remember some years ago he was a guest on "The Weakest Link", and when the hostess started needling him about his show, he practically apologized.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Guest]

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I guess that you've never seen an episode of Springer or any of the other almost countless shows with Brain Dead audiences?

Y'see there are stupid, ignorant sheeple all over the world.

Don't think for a moment that the Middle East has got that particular market cornered

I do not; however, Springer is merely exploiting the Inbred-Jeds for his own personal economic gain, not manipulating them as a means of influencing regional or global politics.

mh
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edit to remark on selective breeding among certain members of society - you decide which

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

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Hmmm... If religion is used as an excuse to make week and feeble people do horrible things... Isn't the original problem that those people live in conditions that make them susceptible to evil and corruption in the first place???

Yes, and the condition that makes them weak and feeble is ignorance(which is perpetuated by the church)
You are exactly right.

I think this is grossly oversimplifying the problem... Just like it's grossly oversimplifying things to say that the riots and killings were merely the result of some fuckwit burning a book... It was most probably the trigger, but something doesn't explode like that without other deep, underlying problems.

I really don't see how that could be in this case given that the mob formed to protest the burning a "holy" book. It was strictly about a clash of religion. Take religion out of the mix and there wouldn't have been a fuckwit burning a book or the mob that formed.

If it wasn't these people's fucked up version of belief in a nonexistant god, what in your opinion is the deep, underlying problem that caused all this to play out?

Egg, meet chicken. Pee, meet pants.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."