U.S. Values Profits over jobs

[jgoose71 0]

Once again, MSNBC has got it wrong. The story suggests that some companies found that they could do more with less, which in some cases are true.

Most of the jobs that aren't coming back though aren't coming back because the company can do with out them, it's because there job was shipped over seas. Why pay $20 an hour in the U.S. when you can pay $2 in Brazil?

The story also goes on to suggest that what is needed to fix the problem is more Unions to protect the jobs. With an army of lawyers, union dues and what not, most unions just add to the cost of doing business. They have become more of a fund raising tool for the Democratic party than a force for protecting jobs.

It's time to wake up. Until we bring down the costs of doing business in the U.S., more jobs are going to be shipped over seas.

Source:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42349181/ns/business-world_business

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

It's time to wake up. Until we bring down the costs of doing business in the U.S., more jobs are going to be shipped over seas.

...and how are you going to do that? Reduce wages?
(see other thread)

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tkhayes 348]

you seem to be complaining about the very definition of capitalism. It is what it is. everyone wants it, no one wants the consequences.

Capitalism will pursue PROFITS and only profits. At the expense of social policy, education, healthcare, employment, people and anything else that gets in the way of profits.

"bring down the cost of doing business?" Sure, at the expense of people - let's go for it!!

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]Capitalism will pursue PROFITS and only profits. At the expense of social policy, education, healthcare, employment, people and anything else that gets in the way of profits.

[airdvr 210]

Quote

you seem to be complaining about the very definition of capitalism. It is what it is. everyone wants it, no one wants the consequences.

Capitalism will pursue PROFITS and only profits. At the expense of social policy, education, healthcare, employment, people and anything else that gets in the way of profits.

"bring down the cost of doing business?" Sure, at the expense of people - let's go for it!!

This is the line for bread. The line for shoes is over there comrade.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[shah269 0]

So.....let me get this straight....we should lower our wages such that we make a little less than those in the developing world such that we ourselves can push back the tide of development and become an underdeveloped nation.

Pardon me if I consider taking a few these trust fund babies and their entire families and drag them by their ankes using a black on black ZX-14 and do a few quarter mile runs up and down wall street while making all their "buddeis" watch at gun point before considering making "less" so they can make "more".

It's funny how Republicans wish for the "good old days" you know the ones where unions were outlawed, worker safety and food safety were jokes and my persoanl favorite child labor was encouraged and the rich got really rich while the poor well they fell into machines and were ground up and consumed by other poor.

Ah now that's the America I wish to live in!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[kallend 2,146]

www.hollandsentinel.com/opinions/x13292164/COLUMN-American-workers-got-what-they-deserved

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

It's funny how Republicans wish for the "good old days" you know the ones where unions were outlawed, worker safety and food safety were jokes and my persoanl favorite child labor was encouraged and the rich got really rich while the poor well they fell into machines and were ground up and consumed by other poor.

Ah now that's the America I wish to live in!

Feel free to provide examples of the posts saying that.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[shah269 0]

Quote

Feel free to provide examples of the posts saying that.

Posts...brother this isn't about posts. It's about policy and action. From the recent elimination of the millionaires tax in NY to the recent GOP crackdown on state unions one has to wonder what history books the GOP was reading? And was this history written after the fact by Beck for his "university"?

FYI
I'm from Iran, the ruling mullahs also have their own history books and their own universities. You should read what these guys think of past events. It's enough to make you wonder "are these guys serious?" and then you realize that they are seriously armed and as such...yes...yes they are serious.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Posts...brother this isn't about posts. It's about policy and action.

So you can show the bills that Republicans have introduced that get rid of the EPA and revoke child labor and workplace safety laws?

Quote

From the recent elimination of the millionaire's tax in NY

Good, maybe they'll keep a few of them in state, instead of taking off for elsewhere like what happened in New Jersey

Quote

More than $70 billion in wealth left New Jersey between 2004 and 2008 as affluent residents moved elsewhere, according to a report released Wednesday that marks a swift reversal of fortune for a state once considered the nation’s wealthiest.
Conducted by the Center on Wealth and Philanthropy at Boston College, the report found wealthy households in New Jersey were leaving for other states — mainly Florida, Pennsylvania and New York — at a faster rate than they were being replaced.

“The wealth is not being replaced,” said John Havens, who directed the study. “It’s above and beyond the general trend that is affecting the rest of the northeast.”

This was not always the case. The study – the first on interstate wealth migration in the country — noted the state actually saw an influx of $98 billion in the five years preceding 2004. The exodus of wealth, then, local experts and economists concluded, was a reaction to a series of changes in the state’s tax structure — including increases in the income, sales, property and “millionaire” taxes.

“This study makes it crystal clear that New Jersey’s tax policies are resulting in a significant decline in the state’s wealth,” said Dennis Bone, chairman of the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce and president of Verizon New Jersey.

and Maryland

Quote

Illinois Governor Pat Quinn is the latest Democrat to demand a tax increase, this week proposing to raise the state's top marginal individual income tax rate to 4% from 3%. He'd better hope this works out better than it has for Maryland.

We reported in May that after passing a millionaire surtax nearly one-third of Maryland's millionaires had gone missing, thus contributing to a decline in state revenues. The politicians in Annapolis had said they'd collect $106 million by raising its income tax rate on millionaire households to 6.25% from 4.75%. In cities like Baltimore and Bethesda, which apply add-on income taxes, the top tax rate with the surcharge now reaches as high as 9.3%—fifth highest in the nation. Liberals said this was based on incomplete data and that rich Marylanders hadn't fled the state.

Well, the state comptroller's office now has the final tax return data for 2008, the first year that the higher tax rates applied. The number of millionaire tax returns fell sharply to 5,529 from 7,898 in 2007, a 30% tumble. The taxes paid by rich filers fell by 22%, and instead of their payments increasing by $106 million, they fell by some $257 million.

Yes, a big part of that decline results from the recession that eroded incomes, especially from capital gains. But there is also little doubt that some rich people moved out or filed their taxes in other states with lower burdens. One-in-eight millionaires who filed a Maryland tax return in 2007 filed no return in 2008. Some died, but the others presumably changed their state of residence. (Hint to the class warfare crowd: A lot of rich people have two homes.)

A Bank of America Merrill Lynch analysis of federal tax return data on people who migrated from one state to another found that Maryland lost $1 billion of its net tax base in 2008 by residents moving to other states. That's income that's now being taxed and is financing services in Virginia, South Carolina and elsewhere.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

we should lower our wages such that we make a little less than those in the developing world such that we ourselves can push back the tide of development and become an underdeveloped nation.

No. What is the deal with all or nothing? What is it? Pay $100k per year in salary and benefits for an assembly line worker working 8 hours a day with 2 weeks off for vacation every year or pay $2 per day for a 16 hour shift? Give me a break!

But consider Detroit. How about the Rust Belt as a whole? Detroit lost about 100,000 auto manufacturing jobs in the 2000's. Most of those were transferred to Southern states where the wages and benefits aren't as high as they WERE in Detroit.

Detroit is a great example of wage inflation leading to the outright destruction of an economy. Really - Detroit is in the shitter. And why? Because autos could be manufactured more inexpensively elsewhere. Add to that free trade agreements that ensured that tariffs wouldn't price imports out of the market and the general resting-on-one's-laurels that American car manufacturers did, and there were foreign cars that were cheaper and in many ways superior to American autos.

So back in the 80's, there became the big "Buy American" campaigns. Check out that union label. SUch campaigns were necessary because American products cost more. "Buy American" was equivalent to "Pay More." Now, in times of economic boom it could work. But when money is tight, it's cheaper to buy something produced across the world and transported than to pay for what American wages and red tape caused.

Quote

Pardon me if I consider taking a few these trust fund babies and their entire families and drag them by their ankes using a black on black ZX-14 and do a few quarter mile runs up and down wall street while making all their "buddeis" watch at gun point before considering making "less" so they can make "more".

Whether you like it or not, this isn't about "trust fund babies" any more than it is about size 2 imported wives. Can we compete with the world considering the present wage strains? By taking a look at the trade deficits of the US I think that any other conclusion is foolish.

Quote

It's funny how Republicans wish for the "good old days" you know the ones where unions were outlawed, worker safety and food safety were jokes and my persoanl favorite child labor was encouraged and the rich got really rich while the poor well they fell into machines and were ground up and consumed by other poor.

First - I'm no Republican.
Second - I've said frequently and for a long time that I support child labor laws that did things like allow kids to live to be 13. I am in favor of worker safety rules and that when an employee is hurt the employer should pay the employee instead of government fines (as happens more often than you would think - the worker gets hosed because the government fined the employer).

Take a look at this: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode29/usc_sup_01_29.html

Yes, a whole title of laws devoted to those issues you discuss. Read through it and find out how many of these section are actually from the last 100 years or so. You'd be amazed at the protections that the law gives that used to be the province of unions. Unions were necessary. Unions were successful. Unions are no longer about worker safety or conditions - unions are about making money (again, do you think the mafia is ever involved in anything that doesn't make money hand over fist? Gambling, drugs, robbery and unions - the big four of mob money makers. Draw some conclusions).

So pardon me if I look at American competitiveness in manufacturing as being like American competitiveness in the Body Mass Index section of lithe and athletic. Whom do you think will win in most endeavors? The fit or the fat?

I'll tell you - we're the fat asses. And we're getting our asses kicked because we are proud of our fatness and don't even try to suggest that we slim down a bit. And the argument, "Slim down? You just want us to go back tot he days when people were starving and infected with cholera and dysentery."
"No. I'm suggesting dropping 20 pounds."
Then you hear the same old justifications..
"But I'm healthy. My diabetes and blood pressure are under control."
"Um. Why do you have diabetes and high blood pressure in teh first place? Lose some weight and exercise."
"I have rights. And it's okay. My grandmother lived to 103..."

When I suggest trimming the fat I amn not recommending anorexia. Note - the fat references were specifically chosen in the hopes that the message would get through to you.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shah269 0]

So....why don't you guys go ahead and take a good 80% pay cut. And well if it works for you I may join!
Deal!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

So....why don't you guys go ahead and take a good 80% pay cut. And well if it works for you I may join!
Deal!

You just proved his point yet again, bro.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,111]

>while the poor well they fell into machines and were ground up and
>consumed by other poor.

True. Who can forget the days of forced cannibalism in US factories. Surely a dark period in our history.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

There is nothing stopping you from opening up your own business. There is nothing stopping you from ensuring 100% of the employees in this new business are unionized with high salaries, full benefits and offering fully indexed pensions. There is nothing stopping you from doing all of this. If you think you can do better than everyone else, if you think you can be the employer role model, then please go for it. Shows us all how it's done.

Business is NOT is business to employ people (that is only a by product of being in business). Business is in business to make money. How do people earn high salaries at their jobs? They earn high salaries by offering up a service to the businesses that are in high demand but where little expertise in the market exists. If everyone had the skill and experience to [insert your favorite high paying profession here] then businesses would not need to pay these people high salaries. Supply and demand. Want a high paying career? Well you better have skills that are in demand but where the labor pool for these skills are in short supply.

The world is changing and it is changing fast. If people are not willing to adapt to this ever changing world, they will be left behind. Whoever told you life would be easy was clearly lying to you.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[shah269 0]

Quote

Quote

So....why don't you guys go ahead and take a good 80% pay cut. And well if it works for you I may join!
Deal!

You just proved his point yet again, bro.

Come on don't be chicken!
Have you seen how little those guys and gals in China make! $20 a day! I bet you could do the sam work here in the US for $19!
Give it a shot for a year let me know how it works out and if it looks like a rocking gig I will join.
DEAL!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[lawrocket 3]

Just did it in November. I'm making less now than I have in six years as an investment in making more in the hopes of making it something bigger. Let me know how to contact you and I'll be happy to provide you with factual support.

Now, your turn. Or were you just bluffing to make a point? If so, your point was not worth making. I've got balls and conviction. How about you?

Also note: I've been there before. Ever been the lowest paid employee of a business. I have. It was MY business. And in a couple of years I became the best paid employee. Did I get sympathy from my employees when they were better paid than me? No. Nor did I expect it. If the choice is between my employees or me, well, the employees get the axe. Period. And when I became an employee again, I recognized that the only person who was irreplaceable was the boss.

Now it's back to being my own boss. I will get paid what I can generate. Right now it's a pretty massive pay cut. But as I prepare to defend a deposition to be taken in Tagalog I think, "you know. This is some good stuff right here. Keep this up and I'll break even by next year."

Maybe I'll even hire somebody to help. Somebody smarter and more skilled than me and those people are expensive. But still expendable.

So are you, shah...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

It's time to wake up. Until we bring down the costs of doing business in the U.S., more jobs are going to be shipped over seas.

...and how are you going to do that? Reduce wages?
(see other thread)

The question does not even need to be asked. it's already answwered. Wages are going down, and have been for at least 20 years. Sure, the dollar amount may go up, but buying power is on the decrease, and that will continue - whether by conscious decision or not.

The question of wages is moot; the real issue is how we will deal with it.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Capitalism will pursue PROFITS and only profits.

My company provides many benefits to keep good workers. That is also capitalism at work. Capitalism means that there is a FREE market, not one with artificial wage controls.

You do know that several instructors have been trying to form a "Skydiving Instructor Union" for years? They feel that if they all band together that they can force you the DZO to provide HC, and higher wages.

[pirana 0]

I think Economics needs to become a core subject at the High School level - maybe Middle School - rather than something that gets a few minutes of discussion in Intro to Business or Social Studies.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[shah269 0]

Quote

Just did it in November. I'm making less now than I have in six years as an investment in making more in the hopes of making it something bigger. ...

No no you have to stay there for a little while. I'm not going to forgo my pay just because you could live on a 90% pay cut for a few month. I not dumb you know!
And when you made more money...well you cheated.
You had to take the new responsibilities and all the extra stree at the same reduced rate. How dare you cost the company more for taking on more tasks!
How dare you!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Niki1 2]

Quote

Quote

It's time to wake up. Until we bring down the costs of doing business in the U.S., more jobs are going to be shipped over seas.

...and how are you going to do that? Reduce wages?
(see other thread)

An idea on the spur of the moment without research, facts or much thought process.

When a company sends jobs out of the country, send the workers too. The ones who volunteer. They could afford to work for less because the cost of living is so much less. The company gets exprrinced workers at the new factory and cheaper laber costs. The workers who move get to keep their jobs and enjoy about the same or better standard of living. Probably wouldn't work for all situations like shoes made in Asia but heavy manufacturing like cars.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]I'm not going to forgo my pay just because you could live on a 90% pay cut for a few month. I not dumb you know!

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

So you can show the bills that Republicans have introduced that get rid of the EPA ....]

Do riders count?
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/152637-schumer-measures-to-defund-epa-planned-parenthood-are-dealbreakers

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

It's time to wake up. Until we bring down the costs of doing business in the U.S., more jobs are going to be shipped over seas.

...and how are you going to do that? Reduce wages?
(see other thread)

The question does not even need to be asked. it's already answwered. Wages are going down, and have been for at least 20 years. Sure, the dollar amount may go up, but buying power is on the decrease, and that will continue - whether by conscious decision or not.

The question of wages is moot; the real issue is how we will deal with it.

???
Wages are going down and have been for 20 years and more? I don't know about that unless you are making reference to voluntary pay cuts. In the big scheme of things, so few companies do it that way that it's almost negligible across the board.

Please don't get taken in by the few news reports regarding voluntary pay cuts to the point of assuming it's widespread across all industries.

Maybe you mean "wages going down" as including benefit packages are being reduced. I dunno, to me wages and benefits are two different things. OTOH, benefit packages do contribute to the cost of doing business, I would think...maybe the accountants in here could be more specific on what constitutes "cost of doing business".

We're talking about the cost of doing business.
How does personal buying power relate to that?
You said the "dollar amount may go up"...that's affecting the cost of doing business.

Maybe you mean that reduced buying power as related to the company buying materials? Well, that increases the cost of doing business in a major way, too, eh?

Reducing wages to reduce the cost of doing business is not moot...it a real concern. Businesses out-sourcing jobs is a real method to reduce the cost of doing business.

Besides, I was asking jgoose71 if HE would reduce wages as a counter-measure to the increase in the cost of doing business.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239