Don't Want To Pay Taxes, Take A Lesson From G.E.

[Butters 0]

How G.E. made $5.1 billion in the U.S. tax-free

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Its extraordinary success is based on an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore. G.E.’s giant tax department, led by a bespectacled, bow-tied former Treasury official named John Samuels, is often referred to as the world’s best tax law firm... The team includes former officials not just from the Treasury, but also from the I.R.S. and virtually all the tax-writing committees in Congress.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[DougH 270]

Write your representatives. Tax planning is within the law, the laws written by the people that you voted for. Tax avoidance is another story, but that isn't what GE is doing.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[rhaig 0]

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Write your representatives. Tax planning is within the law, the laws written by the people that you voted for. Tax avoidance is another story, but that isn't what GE is doing.

I'd always understood the term "tax avoidance" to refer to the legal practice of avoiding owing taxes through exploiting tax code to one's advantage. "Tax evasion" on the other hand is the illegal practice of not paying what one owes.

--
Rob

[BIGUN 1,489]

You're both saying the same thing.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DougH 270]

Yes.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[mpohl 1]

Shamelessly copied....

"In publishing the Communist Manifesto in 1848 Karl Marx and Frederich Engels declared that 'the history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggle.

With all due respect to Marx and Engels, this was not exactly 'news.'

More than three centuries before Christ, the great Athenian philosopher Plato in his dialogue The Republic observed that 'all cities' (i.e. all societies') 'are divided into two, one the society of the poor, the other of the rich; these are at war with one another.' Republic IV.

Plato's student, Aristotle, in his book The Politics stated that 'it is manifest that the best political community is formed by citizens of the middle class, and those states are likely to be well-administered in which the middle class is larger, and stronger, if possible, than both other classes.' The Politics, Book IV. Ch. 11.

More recently. the multi-billionaire investor George Soros has said: "...the greatest threat to freedom today comes from the formation of an unholy alliance between government and business. This is not a new phenomenon. It used to be called fascism. The outward appearances of the democratic process are observed, but the powers of the state are diverted to the benefit of private interests (i.e. corporations)'

Finally, the great Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, in the depths of the great Depression, stated: 'We can have a democratic society or we can have great concentrated wealth in the hands of the few. We cannot have both.'

I have nothing to add to these comments."

[Belgian_Draft 0]

In racing circles that is what is known as "liberal interpretation of the rules" or, as Mark Donahue called it, "The Unfair Advantage".
It isn't illegal. It's not even cheating. It's just going over the rules with a microscope to find each and every detail you can use to your advantage.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[stevebabin 0]

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In racing circles that is what is known as "liberal interpretation of the rules" or, as Mark Donahue called it, "The Unfair Advantage".
It isn't illegal. It's not even cheating. It's just going over the rules with a microscope to find each and every detail you can use to your advantage.

Which, in business you're compelled to do, in order to stay competitive.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Butters 0]

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In racing circles that is what is known as "liberal interpretation of the rules" or, as Mark Donahue called it, "The Unfair Advantage".
It isn't illegal. It's not even cheating. It's just going over the rules with a microscope to find each and every detail you can use to your advantage.

I don't have a problem with what General Electric is doing. I have a problem with what Congress is doing for General Electric ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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In racing circles that is what is known as "liberal interpretation of the rules" or, as Mark Donahue called it, "The Unfair Advantage".
It isn't illegal. It's not even cheating. It's just going over the rules with a microscope to find each and every detail you can use to your advantage.

I don't have a problem with what General Electric is doing. I have a problem with what Congress is doing for General Electric ...

I feel the same way.
If Congress gave me a way out of paying taxes while I amassed a fortune I wouldn't hesitate one second to use it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jgoose71 0]

I think your numbers might be a little off. Here is an update:

$14.2 Billion in profit
$5 billion made in the U.S.
$3.2 billion in government subsidies.
$0 paid in taxes.

There business plan is paying off. Bribe the president.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Butters 0]

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I think your numbers might be a little off. Here is an update:

$14.2 Billion in profit
$5 billion made in the U.S.
$3.2 billion in government subsidies.
$0 paid in taxes.

There business plan is paying off. Bribe the president.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558

A few things from the article you posted ...

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General Electric, paid nothing in federal taxes last year ...

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For two years, President Obama has been talking about the need for corporate tax reform, declaring that the system is too complicated and that companies pay too much.

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Immelt serves as the chairman of Obama's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.

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When President Obama announced his decision to appoint Immelt to the unpaid advisory role on job creation in January, some critics wondered whether the move was appropriate. Under his leadership, GE laid off 21,000 American workers and closed 20 factories between 2007 and 2009. More than half of GE's workforce is now outside the United States.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Write your representatives.

GM also contributed $28.9M to schools in Congressman Rangel's state when he dropped his opposition to the tax break they wanted'

I can't afford to spend that much on reducing my taxes.

[jgoose71 0]

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For two years, President Obama has been talking about the need for corporate tax reform, declaring that the system is too complicated and that companies pay too much.

Which completely contradicts what he says about the rich not paying enough. So which is it? Do the wealthy pay to much or not enough?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Butters 0]

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For two years, President Obama has been talking about the need for corporate tax reform, declaring that the system is too complicated and that companies pay too much.

Which completely contradicts what he says about the rich not paying enough. So which is it? Do the wealthy pay to much or not enough?

He says companies pay to much while also saying that companies don't pay enough while having someone from a company that doesn't pay any advise him about such things ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[kallend 2,154]

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For two years, President Obama has been talking about the need for corporate tax reform, declaring that the system is too complicated and that companies pay too much.

Which completely contradicts what he says about the rich not paying enough. So which is it? Do the wealthy pay to much or not enough?

He says companies pay to much while also saying that companies don't pay enough while having someone from a company that doesn't pay any advise him about such things ...

My opinion, FWIW, is that the entire concept of the corporation as a pseudo-person for some purposes while being taxed differently from actual people, and protecting the real owners from liability while allowing them to take personal benefits like use of the company jet and stay in resort hotels at company expense, is seriously flawed.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pirana 0]

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My opinion, FWIW, is that the entire concept of the corporation as a pseudo-person for some purposes while being taxed differently from actual people, and protecting the real owners from liability while allowing them to take personal benefits like use of the company jet and stay in resort hotels at company expense, is seriously flawed.

I agree, but also think we might be a bit biased. I'm sure those on the recieving end of the benefits would point out that no laws are being broken, and the perks are swell.

It occurs to me that the corporation as a model for business is the logical outcome of an economic system that rewards big at the margin (making scale of operations critical). I think the end result is what I've heard termed corporatocracy.

We're not really a democracy anymore - at least not a very pure one - but the public has gotten what it deserves as a result of it's lust for instant gratification and flavor-of-the-day consumerism.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[billvon 3,120]

>while allowing them to take personal benefits like use of the company jet
>and stay in resort hotels at company expense, is seriously flawed.

I get to use the company jet. We've used it to take off from San Diego in the morning, do a demo in Chicago in the afternoon, and be back that night. Heck, we once got the use of an American Airlines MD-80 for a few weeks.

I've also stayed at resort hotels for career fairs and seminars. In fact after the first week or so they moved us to the nicest hotel in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Was actually pretty swanky.

Oh, and we fly business class when we travel overseas.

How much more should I pay in taxes?

[maxwellman23 0]

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Shamelessly copied....

"In publishing the Communist Manifesto in 1848 Karl Marx and Frederich Engels declared that 'the history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggle.

With all due respect to Marx and Engels, this was not exactly 'news.'

More than three centuries before Christ, the great Athenian philosopher Plato in his dialogue The Republic observed that 'all cities' (i.e. all societies') 'are divided into two, one the society of the poor, the other of the rich; these are at war with one another.' Republic IV.

Plato's student, Aristotle, in his book The Politics stated that 'it is manifest that the best political community is formed by citizens of the middle class, and those states are likely to be well-administered in which the middle class is larger, and stronger, if possible, than both other classes.' The Politics, Book IV. Ch. 11.

More recently. the multi-billionaire investor George Soros has said: "...the greatest threat to freedom today comes from the formation of an unholy alliance between government and business. This is not a new phenomenon. It used to be called fascism. The outward appearances of the democratic process are observed, but the powers of the state are diverted to the benefit of private interests (i.e. corporations)'

Finally, the great Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, in the depths of the great Depression, stated: 'We can have a democratic society or we can have great concentrated wealth in the hands of the few. We cannot have both.'

I have nothing to add to these comments."

This says it all

I am ALIVE!

[kallend 2,154]

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>while allowing them to take personal benefits like use of the company jet
>and stay in resort hotels at company expense, is seriously flawed.

I get to use the company jet. We've used it to take off from San Diego in the morning, do a demo in Chicago in the afternoon, and be back that night. Heck, we once got the use of an American Airlines MD-80 for a few weeks.

I've also stayed at resort hotels for career fairs and seminars. In fact after the first week or so they moved us to the nicest hotel in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Was actually pretty swanky.

Oh, and we fly business class when we travel overseas.

How much more should I pay in taxes?

Lots. Nothing you wrote invalidates what I said. There are legitimate reasons for employees to use a company jet. Taking the wife and kids for a weekend of skiing in Aspen is not one of them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Follow up:

More at the link:

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Now, we'll give you brief answers to the main questions, but you'll have to bear with us afterward for the full explanation.

Did GE get a $3.2 billion tax refund? No.

Did GE pay U.S. income taxes in 2010? Yes, it paid estimated taxes for 2010, and also made payments for previous years. Think of it as your having paid withholding taxes on your salary in 2010, and sending the IRS a check on April 15, 2010, covering your balance owed for 2009.

Will GE ultimately pay U.S. income taxes for 2010? After much to-ing and fro-ing -- the company says it hasn't completed its 2010 tax return -- GE now says that it will pay tax. (For more on GE's tax strategies, see GE's taxes: A case study)

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706