Hiring Based on Race is Wrong...

[billvon 3,090]

>It sounds like you are saying that affirmative action is needed to force
>people and corporations and municipalities to go with the lesser qualified,
>less intelligent, less dependable option?

No, You sometimes need affirmative action because some people still think that blacks are the lesser qualified, less intelligent and less dependable option. Fortunately 99.9% of the US is past that, and the need for it is declining rapidly.

[turtlespeed 226]

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>It sounds like you are saying that affirmative action is needed to force
>people and corporations and municipalities to go with the lesser qualified,
>less intelligent, less dependable option?

No, You sometimes need affirmative action because some people still think that blacks are the lesser qualified, less intelligent and less dependable option. Fortunately 99.9% of the US is past that, and the need for it is declining rapidly.

So what is your explanation on why they, in this day and age, needed to dumb the test down to 66% being a passing grade.

Scenario -

You have a very limited time scale on a new project. Your job and your livelyhood depends on this one project.

You are given a choice from the two new hires to work with. You have a choice, you can have the black guy with a 66% passing grade that just barely squeaked by after they reduced the minimum passing grade, OR you can have the other guy, who passed his tests with a 90% minimum.

Which one do you choose?

But then, in reality, we are only talking about the guys out there holding the guns and the job description to detain people, arrest people, and the power to really screw up your world if they want to.

I sure as hell don't want people that make the most mistakes doing the job that by definition should have the least amount of mistakes possible.

You see all the hate and outrage when a cop makes a bad decision now, wait until they are proven to have made a D minus on their exam.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[dreamdancer 0]

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Except affirmative action, by definition, is racist.

affirmative action, by definition, is anti-racist...

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[dreamdancer 0]

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No, You sometimes need affirmative action because some people still think that blacks are the lesser qualified, less intelligent and less dependable option. Fortunately 99.9% of the US is past that, and the need for it is declining rapidly.

what about the 50% and more in this forum who still think it? or is this forum just more racist than the rest of the us?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
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[mnealtx 0]

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Except affirmative action, by definition, is racist.

affirmative action, by definition, is anti-racist...

Forced hiring by race isn't racist...that's an interesting dictionary you use, Kevin.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Nataly 38]

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They are only required to get a 66% on part of the exam. How much lower do you want them to dumb it down? Heck, why bother to have an exam at all. Let's just base it on whether they are really nice people. If we like them they get hired to protect you, if we don't like them, they clean the sewers.

I would just like to point out that the above in no way refutes or weakens what I was saying. You're simply throwing out silly propositions, which don't strengthen your position, IMO.

I think it's unlikely they adjusted the pass-rate on a mere whim. I think it's far more likely they thought long and hard about it and made a judgement call on a new pass rate. The original pass-rate was also a judgement call. Any cut-off point is a judgement call, and any judgement call should be subject to reasonable re-evaluation, given the right circumstances. In this case, it sounds like there was a real need to hire more candidates. Everyone is free to question the soundness of lowering the pass-rate, but you are mistaken if you believe that this is an isolated incident - this sort of thing happens all the time, across many, many, many occupations. The fact is that only time will tell whether it was a good decision. Maybe it was, and maybe it wasn't.

I just personally doubt that the "bumped-up" candidates will be grossly unfit to be police officers. At least no more so than the candidates who obtained only a marginal pass.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Except affirmative action, by definition, is racist.

affirmative action, by definition, is anti-racist...

Wrong.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Except affirmative action, by definition, is racist.

affirmative action, by definition, is anti-racist...

Wrong.

incorrect...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[shropshire 0]

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>It's not that blacks are dumber or smarter that white people. It's Priorities.

So far we have "blacks have a lower IQ overall" "blacks are shiftless" and "blacks were bred for strength." Which people can think; people can think anything they like.

Unfortunately, often that thinking is manifested in things like hiring decisions and college acceptances. "Well, it's a proven fact that blacks have lower IQ's and are lazier than whites. So if I have two equally qualified applicants - one black, one white - I'm going to be intelligent about it and go with the guy who, statistically speaking, will tend to be smarter and harder working."

And THAT is why affirmative action is sometimes needed.

Except affirmative action, by definition, is racist.

Fucking hell - we agree on some thing



But not just race-IST - it can be all sorts of other-IST too.

Like selecting females over males, handicapped over able-body folks ... the whole gamut of ISTS.

Discrimination, both +ve & -ve is still discrimination.

As an employer, I want (demand even) to be able to select my own employees. I'll select folks that can do the job and I can get on with.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

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Except affirmative action, by definition, is racist.

affirmative action, by definition, is anti-racist...

Wrong.

incorrect...

How so?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[captain1976 0]

Personal character and integrity are more important than IQ scores.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Except affirmative action, by definition, is racist.

affirmative action, by definition, is anti-racist...

Wrong.

incorrect...

How so?

racism assumes a particular race is superior to another race (and acts on it). affirmative action assumes races are equal...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[shropshire 0]

Sorry, I don't agree.

Affirmative action, implies that one must put one group above another - artificially - which is discriminatory by definition!!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[dreamdancer 0]

racism and discrimination are two different words with two different meanings...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Affirmative action exists because people assumes one group is superior and discriminates against that group.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Affirmative action exists because people assumes one group is superior and discriminates against that group.

Affirmative action exists because racists assumes one group is superior and discriminates against that group...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[shropshire 0]

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Affirmative action exists because people assumes one group is superior and discriminates against that group.

Affirmative action exists because racists assumes one group is superior and discriminates against that group...

I don't think so... I think that Affirmative Action exists because the stupid Political Correctness environment that we have forced upon us - is engineering a result.

By forcing the world to pick one group (i.e race) over others they are in fact being discriminatory against the other groups (i.e. Racist).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[dreamdancer 0]

first there was racism - and then affirmative action (anti-racism) to correct that racism...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Gravitymaster 0]

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first there was racism - and then affirmative action (anti-racism) to correct that racism...

2 wrongs don't make it right.

[shropshire 0]

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first there was racism - and then affirmative action (anti-racism) to correct that racism...

[shakes head]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[SpeedRacer 1]

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In the good ol' USA you cannot speak the truth if it insults a group of people. Jimmy the Greek can attest to that. For anyone unfamiliar with his case, Jimmy the Greek was a bookie and a sports announcer. He lost his job when he said blacks are better athletes because their ancestors here in the US were selectively bred, as slaves, to produce the strongest offspring.
He was right and he lost his job because he spoke the truth.

bullshit. You can't select for a trait by applying selective pressure for just a few generations, even if it was always applied consistently, which it wasn't.

And don't forget, people who are descended from slaves are descended from the ones who got caught.

Speed Racer
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[SpeedRacer 1]

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OK, now here is the truth.

It's not that blacks are dumber or smarter that white people. It's Priorities.

Black kids growing up prioritize MTV, gangster rap, getting their bling on, slappin hoes, big ballin', grabbin their junk, and making sure their street cred is in order.

holy crap.

Speed Racer
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[billvon 3,090]

>You have a very limited time scale on a new project. Your job and your
>livelyhood depends on this one project.

>You are given a choice from the two new hires to work with. You have a choice,
>you can have the black guy with a 66% passing grade that just barely
>squeaked by after they reduced the minimum passing grade, OR you can have
>the other guy, who passed his tests with a 90% minimum.

Then of course you take the most qualified guy.

Now here's a more realistic scenario. You have two guys. They both scored the same on the test. On the interviews, one guy got pretty good ratings. On the other set of interviews, there were no objective flaws detected, but several interviewers said things like "risk of poor priority setting" "may not be a hard worker" and "likely lower intelligence."

Your job is on the line. Which one are you going to take?

[billvon 3,090]

>2 wrongs don't make it right.

So a cop who shoots a murderer during a standoff should go to jail? Or in that case does the first wrong make the second wrong OK?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>2 wrongs don't make it right.

So a cop who shoots a murderer during a standoff should go to jail? Or in that case does the first wrong make the second wrong OK?

Context, Bill. Context. I didn't say in every senario. I sais 2 wrongs don't make IT right. Meaning the subject at hand. Not any example you can come up with.