The Problem Isn't Capitalism

[Butters 0]

The problem isn't capitalism. The problem is individuals continuing to purchase products from companies they complain about ... Stop purchasing the products and the companies eventually won't have enough money to stay in business and another company or companies can take their place.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[HandsomeSalad 0]

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The problem isn't capitalism. The problem is individuals continuing to purchase products from companies they complain about ... Stop purchasing the products and the companies eventually won't have enough money to stay in business and another company or companies can take their place.

A company will replace a company... you have a firm grasp of this Capitalism stuff.

[Butters 0]

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The problem isn't capitalism. The problem is individuals continuing to purchase products from companies they complain about ... Stop purchasing the products and the companies eventually won't have enough money to stay in business and another company or companies can take their place.

A company will replace a company... you have a firm grasp of this Capitalism stuff.

Yes, if there is a void it will be filled. That is a firm grasp of Capitalism in action ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Capitalism is not perfect. In Capitalism, there are winners and there are losers. Hard work alone does not guarantee success in Capitalism. One does need to be good to be lucky, but one also needs a little luck to be good. But at least in Capitalism you have a chance to succeed. Under socialism, everyone is equal. Equally screwed.

If people are concerned about the source of a given product, do a little research about who is behind the product before you buy it. At least under Capitalism you have the choice to walk across the street to the competitor if you do not like what you see. Now for the rest of you comrades who do not believe in Capitalism, this is NOT the line for food. It is the line for shoes. The line for food starts over there.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[HandsomeSalad 0]

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But at least in Capitalism you have a chance to succeed.

Said the El Salvadorian orphan to the Nepalese child labourer.

[Butters 0]

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But at least in Capitalism you have a chance to succeed.

Said the El Salvadorian orphan to the Nepalese child labourer.

If consumers didn't purchase those goods than the companies wouldn't be able to stay in business and we wouldn't have those issues ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[HandsomeSalad 0]

Boycotting products is how to stop 80% of the world being dirt poor? This is ground breaking theory.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

If you are concerned about the El Salvadorian orphan or the Nepalese child labourer, why don't you do a little research before you buy the next product. If there is any evidence that the El Salvadorian orphan or Nepalese child labourer made the product(s) you are about to consume, you have the option NOT to buy this product. Seems to me that is what the OP of this thread was suggesting.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Butters 0]

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Boycotting products is how to stop 80% of the world being dirt poor? This is ground breaking theory.

Show me how Capitalism is making 80% of the world dirt poor.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Okay we get it, you are concerned about the 7 billion people who walk this planet (many of them who are poor). But whoever told you life would be easy was clearly lying to you. I am about to age myself here but in the early 1980s when I was a young, the world's population was estimated to be 4 billion people. Now what is it? 7+ billion? Seems to me it wasn't the evil hated Capitalist world who added those extra 3 billion people since the 1980s. Capitalism is NOT the world's poverty problem. The world's problem with poverty is uncontrolled population growth.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rushmc 23]

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Capitalism is not perfect. In Capitalism, there are winners and there are losers. Hard work alone does not guarantee success in Capitalism. One does need to be good to be lucky, but one also needs a little luck to be good. But at least in Capitalism you have a chance to succeed. Under socialism, everyone is equal. Equally screwed.

If people are concerned about the source of a given product, do a little research about who is behind the product before you buy it. At least under Capitalism you have the choice to walk across the street to the competitor if you do not like what you see. Now for the rest of you comrades who do not believe in Capitalism, this is NOT the line for food. It is the line for shoes. The line for food starts over there.

I am more concerned about the government picking the winners and looser through regulation and taxation

The housing bubble is a perfect example

Laws are needed to jail the crooks but the rest? Well the rest will support the good and out the bad in most cases

We just need the gov to get smaller, in our lives less and let we the people take care of it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

>I am more concerned about the government picking the winners and looser
>through regulation and taxation

Through equally applied regulation, they don't pick winners and losers - the companies themselves do that.

>The housing bubble is a perfect example

Given that bubbles happen all the time, with or without government intervention, it seems like a bad example.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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If you are concerned about the El Salvadorian orphan or the Nepalese child labourer, why don't you do a little research before you buy the next product. If there is any evidence that the El Salvadorian orphan or Nepalese child labourer made the product(s) you are about to consume, you have the option NOT to buy this product. Seems to me that is what the OP of this thread was suggesting.

Problem is, the majority is all high and mighty until it hits their pocket book...then they are cheap.

[Butters 0]

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If you are concerned about the El Salvadorian orphan or the Nepalese child labourer, why don't you do a little research before you buy the next product. If there is any evidence that the El Salvadorian orphan or Nepalese child labourer made the product(s) you are about to consume, you have the option NOT to buy this product. Seems to me that is what the OP of this thread was suggesting.

Problem is, the majority is all high and mighty until it hits their pocket book...then they are cheap.

So the problem isn't Capitalism, it's consumers, it's us ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Fast 0]

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The problem isn't capitalism. The problem is individuals continuing to purchase products from companies they complain about ... Stop purchasing the products and the companies eventually won't have enough money to stay in business and another company or companies can take their place.

The problem isn't capitalism. In theory it works, but human beings are a pretty degenerate group.

It's greed. That's the real problem with the world. The sad thing is that it's innate in human nature.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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So the problem isn't Capitalism, it's consumers, it's us ...

Don't think the world can be as binary as you might like it to be. American consumers are a product of the market and society they grew up in. One influences the other. There are societies that put less emphasis on "stuff". Those societies are generally derided by Americans who, if I may generalize for a second, tend to think their way of life is the only correct way of life.

[Butters 0]

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So the problem isn't Capitalism, it's consumers, it's us ...

Don't think the world can be as binary as you might like it to be. American consumers are a product of the market and society they grew up in. One influences the other. There are societies that put less emphasis on "stuff". Those societies are generally derided by Americans who, if I may generalize for a second, tend to think their way of life is the only correct way of life.

I don't think the world is binary at all. You're right, big consumers are "products" of their society just like small consumers are "products" of their society. The thing is that Capitalism requires responsible consumers regardless if it's based in a society with more or less emphasis on "stuff".

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[lawrocket 3]

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But at least in Capitalism you have a chance to succeed.

Said the El Salvadorian orphan to the Nepalese child labourer.

Funny that you bring up a couple of places that have strong government domination - so strong that civil wars have ravaged both countries within the last twenty years and murders, tortures and abuse occur readily by the right/left wing command governments and their right/left wing revolutionary opponents.

Government and capitalism? There will always be a tension between the two.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Guest]

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The problem isn't capitalism. The problem is individuals continuing to purchase products from companies they complain about ... Stop purchasing the products and the companies eventually won't have enough money to stay in business and another company or companies can take their place.

The problem isn't capitalism. In theory it works, but human beings are a pretty degenerate group.

It's greed. That's the real problem with the world. The sad thing is that it's innate in human nature.

Frank Zappa: "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff."

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 3,120]

>The problem isn't capitalism. In theory it works, but human beings
>are a pretty degenerate group.

>It's greed. That's the real problem with the world. The sad thing is that
>it's innate in human nature.

Except that capitalism is greed expressed as an economic system. If greed is a bad thing, then capitalism, by enabling and rewarding greed, is surely just as bad.

[lawrocket 3]

>>
Except that capitalism is greed expressed as an economic system. If greed is a bad thing, then capitalism, by enabling and rewarding greed, is surely just as bad

This is a point worthy of some discussion. Even Adam Smith took some pains to differentiate "greed" from "self interest." Capitalism works on a system, said Smith, of self-interest. Self-interest, after all, can be expressed as altruism. Greed is not, by itself, a bad thing. What makes greed bad? Only when the ends of greed are accomplished by unfair means. Insider trading is driven by greed, but this is accomplished in a bad way that is unfair to others in the marketplace. Robbery is "greed." What differentiates from self-interest?

I think that there are plenty of lofty goals and aspirations that people can all unite and be as one. But the John Lennon who wrote "Imagine" was the same guy who kickesd vagrants off his estate and moved to America for the better tac treatment. But was Lennon greedy?he did nothing nefarious or unfair to attain his great wealth. Or was he merely self-interested?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,120]

>Greed is not, by itself, a bad thing.

Agreed. Indeed, it is accurately described as a lot of self interest.

>What makes greed bad? Only when the ends of greed are accomplished by unfair
>means.

That's one definition, although it has the problem that you are defining it as bad by adding other bad aspects to it (i.e. fraud or whatever.)

Another, more common, definition is that greed is an _excessive_ desire for stuff, money, property etc. The problem is - what's excessive? Is desire for anything beyond an average, comfortable existence greed? Perhaps, but if that's the case, then our economy would collapse without it. Indeed, the "american dream" is often expressed as someone who works hard and ends up with lots of money, so we tend to glorify rather than vilify that aspect of greed. (Which, like the man said, works - at least for our economic system.)

[lawrocket 3]

Very good points on the subjectivity of it all.

I happened upon this delightful story that shows how greed can be kept in check by a free market but then unleashed by goverment action.

[Url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41994697/ns/health-pregnancy/[/url]

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Butters 0]

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>Greed is not, by itself, a bad thing.

Agreed. Indeed, it is accurately described as a lot of self interest.

>What makes greed bad? Only when the ends of greed are accomplished by unfair
>means.

That's one definition, although it has the problem that you are defining it as bad by adding other bad aspects to it (i.e. fraud or whatever.)

Another, more common, definition is that greed is an _excessive_ desire for stuff, money, property etc. The problem is - what's excessive? Is desire for anything beyond an average, comfortable existence greed? Perhaps, but if that's the case, then our economy would collapse without it. Indeed, the "american dream" is often expressed as someone who works hard and ends up with lots of money, so we tend to glorify rather than vilify that aspect of greed. (Which, like the man said, works - at least for our economic system.)

I think we have to look beyond the negative connotations associated with greed. After all, Bill Gates is greedy but Bill Gates has also globally enhanced healthcare and reduced extreme poverty, locally expanded educational opportunities and access to information technology, and employed along with entertained millions.

Greed, a selfish and excessive desire for more of something than is needed. How much of anything is needed? Is having more of something than is needed bad? I don't think greed is bad. I think how you obtain something (regardless of if it's more than needed) is what determines good and bad ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[HandsomeSalad 0]

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Boycotting products is how to stop 80% of the world being dirt poor? This is ground breaking theory.

Show me how Capitalism is making 80% of the world dirt poor.

Oh you are confused? It is the dominant global economic practise which has existed for a couple of centuries now - most people are still living in poverty.

You can still advocate capitalism and reconcile this fact. It takes a degree of calusness but it isn't a hard thing to do.

The tongue in cheek point is that the original hypothesis is stupid and consumer choice has absolutely nothing to do with the fundamental problems of the world economic, social or other wise.