Interesting set of statistics on welfare

[wmw999 2,588]

In looking up stuff before posting a massive poll in the bonfire, I came across this website. Now, I'm sure that website has a point of view, but just considering these facts is kind of interesting.

Shows the importance of marriage, working, and delaying childbirth until you've done some preparing for it.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

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In looking up stuff before posting a massive poll in the bonfire, I came across this website. Now, I'm sure that website has a point of view, but just considering these facts is kind of interesting.

Shows the importance of marriage, working, and delaying childbirth until you've done some preparing for it.

Wendy P.

Hmmm

Seems maybe supporting the family unit and family values is a good thing?

Kind of brings in the being responcible for ones actions to the front and center

Thanks Wendy

Interesting stuff

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,588]

How do you propose enforcing people getting and staying married? Not providing birth control to teenagers seems to have resulted in more teenaged pregnancies. Now -- it's all well and good to say they shouldn't do that, but they are.

We have to deal with reality.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

How do you propose enforcing people getting and staying married? Not providing birth control to teenagers seems to have resulted in more teenaged pregnancies. Now -- it's all well and good to say they shouldn't do that, but they are.

We have to deal with reality.

Wendy P.

I am not proposing to enforce anything

However as a society we can support things

We do have some power as to what reality is and what is acepted

Or not........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,588]

We can support things. But as long as we're also supporting the results of what's not desirable, we should try to figure out how to reduce those costs. Since we're not willing to let people die in the streets (generally -- BTW I think that's a good thing), having processes in place that make undesirable results less likely is good. Kind of like mistake-proofing

You don't want to plan for people to make mistakes in your process. But if you mistake-proof it, mistakes go down.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[lawrocket 3]

IT's interesting to note the rise in this with the rise in welfare and public assistance. There provides an inducement for exactly the kind of statistics that we see.

People are rather simple creatures. Take a look at Banesanura's thread about knowing this will be a welfare baby. Of course it makes the decision easier if there is a safety net that can be used as a hammock.

I do not see any reason to enforce marriage or deny rights of birth. I do, however, think that people are far less likely to engage in such behavior when the cost of doing so is spread to others. Particularly since this is so damned societally prevalent.

"You breed 'em you feed 'em" is a tough sounding thing. But it's the only way I see to prevent this problem.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[wmw999 2,588]

Personally, my heart of hearts says that reducing fertility is a good thing; making some sort of passive birth control (e.g. depo shots or sterilization -- something you don't have to actually comply with) a requirement for better welfare would probably attract a lot of short-term thinkers. And, ya know -- most welfare recipients are short-term thinkers. That's how they got there in the first place.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jgoose71 0]

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Personally, my heart of hearts says that reducing fertility is a good thing; making some sort of passive birth control (e.g. depo shots or sterilization -- something you don't have to actually comply with) a requirement for better welfare would probably attract a lot of short-term thinkers. And, ya know -- most welfare recipients are short-term thinkers. That's how they got there in the first place.

Wendy P.

I like your thinking. I would also like to see depo shots or Vasectomies offered to prisoners/ gang-bangers/ etc...

Problem 1 you will run into with that though is you will get people accusing you of trying to rid the U.S. of minorities. You will get the NAACP parading around statistics of how all the low income homes are minorities and you will be accused of racism.

Problem 2 is the democrats don't want this to happen. If they want the welfare to continue, vote democrat. Never mind that it's ruining America, we can't lose that voting block. Politicians are short cited also.

This study is nothing new. The only way to counter this stuff right now is to promote family values. Since I said "family values" now we are getting into the extreme right wing and left wing arguments.

Que Amazon talking about closet homosexual hypocrite republicans in 3, 2, 1.......

The break down of America's moral fiber is causing all kinds of problems. Short sighted folks running up debts for instant gratification, finding new ways to take risk without responsibility, and just in general not thinking about what today's decisions are going to do to tomorrow.

Nothing is going to change until people start making responsible decisions. That isn't going to happen until people are held accountable for their decisions. Unfortunately, you are a heartless bastard if you tell someone "no."

Eventually someone may get serious about it. Not until it's an extreme emergency with no other alternatives though....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[wmw999 2,588]

"promoting family values" has proven to be pretty worthless in the last few years. Over the last 30 years we've had:

Republican president 20 years, Democrat 10
Republican senate 16 years, Democrat 10, and split 4
Republican house 12 years, Democrat 18

And for several of the Bush years, they were all three aligned. I'm going to say that it would take a massive enforcement of social policies to "encourage family values" in any real way. Blaming the other side won't help anything, all it does is gives you something to spend energy on.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jgoose71 0]

And putting single parents on welfare isn't fairing much better either. All we are doing is creating low income pockets to breed upon each other.

I've always thought that we could get somewhere if we changed what "Family values" meant to the general public.

Right now when people think "family values" they think right wing conservative views on Marriage, abortion, sex ed, etc....

I would promote (same as you), free sterilization to those who could not (or would not) support a kid, legalize the abortion pill, sex ed or health class for all students in high school, maybe even Junior High. And in an even more controversial move, I would explore options to give men more say in their reproductive rights. It takes two to tango, but after that, the man's life is hanging on the woman's decision. How would it effect the woman's decision if she know the man didn't have to be their physically or financially?

Family values to me means when you have a kid, you have a family. Not a burden or a welfare check, or what ever else kids in the slums may be labeled as.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[kelpdiver 2]

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I like your thinking. I would also like to see depo shots or Vasectomies offered to prisoners/ gang-bangers/ etc...

Problem 1 you will run into with that though is you will get people accusing you of trying to rid the U.S. of minorities. You will get the NAACP parading around statistics of how all the low income homes are minorities and you will be accused of racism.

Problem 2 is the democrats don't want this to happen. If they want the welfare to continue, vote democrat. Never mind that it's ruining America, we can't lose that voting block. Politicians are short cited also.

Forced sterilization is a human rights violation. Mildly coerced sterilization is only slightly better. I can think of so many reasons why we don't want to walk down that slope.

I also suspect that even in the short term, the decrease in pregnancies may be accompanied by a spike in STDs.

[rehmwa 2]

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Politicians are short cited also.

did you do that on purpose - if so, that was rather clever

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jgoose71 0]

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I like your thinking. I would also like to see depo shots or Vasectomies offered to prisoners/ gang-bangers/ etc...

Problem 1 you will run into with that though is you will get people accusing you of trying to rid the U.S. of minorities. You will get the NAACP parading around statistics of how all the low income homes are minorities and you will be accused of racism.

Problem 2 is the democrats don't want this to happen. If they want the welfare to continue, vote democrat. Never mind that it's ruining America, we can't lose that voting block. Politicians are short cited also.

Forced sterilization is a human rights violation. Mildly coerced sterilization is only slightly better. I can think of so many reasons why we don't want to walk down that slope.

I also suspect that even in the short term, the decrease in pregnancies may be accompanied by a spike in STDs.

I wasn't talking about forces or coerced sterilization. It would be all voluntary. If you don't want any baby mamma drama, come get snipped. The signs would be that simple. But it's not like a plan like this would go into effect anyway for reasons already cited above.

Ya, STD's are a problem right now anyway. I don't think those numbers would be effected. By the birth rates in some areas, I don't think they know what a condom is anyway.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything