rushmc 23
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rushmc 23
QuoteQuote.......Who gets to decide when the cell mass becomes more? When it is a human life and not before?
You?
Certainly not you, nor any other male, should have jurisdiction over what any woman does with her own body. It simply is none of your business.
+ 1 Writ very large
If one wants to boil it down to a single person then the point can be taken well
However, it needs to be looked at, at a societal level
How a culture or a society views life has a huge impact on were that group of people goes.
Killing the unborn reduces that cultures value of what life it IMO
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,117
QuoteQuoteLooking back, I misspoke. Kallend said that he believes that personhood starts at emergence from the womb (which is, in fact, generally accompanied by tax deduction, birth certificate, and SSN). The tax deduction is an American artifact; the point wasn't financial, it was about timing. I think that his opinion would be the same if asked about countries which don't give tax deductions based on children.
Wendy P.
which confirms the fact that money considerations are all that matter to him as to when life starts
WRONG AGAIN.
They are clear indications given by society that a new person has entered our society. A birth certificate and a SSN are not monetary considerations.
A baby becomes society's concern when the mother DELIVERS the baby to the world (often in a DELIVERY ROOM). Society provides certain indicators of receiving and accepting the new member (a birth certificate, a SSN, and a tax deduction in the USA). Until then society has not acknowledged it as a member, it is purely the mother's business.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,117
QuoteLooking back, I misspoke. Kallend said that he believes that personhood starts at emergence from the womb (which is, in fact, generally accompanied by tax deduction, birth certificate, and SSN). The tax deduction is an American artifact; the point wasn't financial, it was about timing. I think that his opinion would be the same if asked about countries which don't give tax deductions based on children.
Wendy P.
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given" Isaiah 9:6
Nothing there about "unto us a zygote is given".
The wise men came from the east to see a born child (if you believe the Bible), not to inspect Mary's uterus.
Personhood is, and always has been, defined by birth.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rehmwa 2
QuoteI really don't think that it's a person until fairly sophisticated brain waves are present,
right, they need to form a coherent communication and stop looking at their shoes and mumbling
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteLooking back, I misspoke. Kallend said that he believes that personhood starts at emergence from the womb (which is, in fact, generally accompanied by tax deduction, birth certificate, and SSN). The tax deduction is an American artifact; the point wasn't financial, it was about timing. I think that his opinion would be the same if asked about countries which don't give tax deductions based on children.
Wendy P.
which confirms the fact that money considerations are all that matter to him as to when life starts
WRONG AGAIN.
They are clear indications given by society that a new person has entered our society. A birth certificate and a SSN are not monetary considerations.
A baby becomes society's concern when the mother DELIVERS the baby to the world (often in a DELIVERY ROOM). Society provides certain indicators of receiving and accepting the new member (a birth certificate, a SSN, and a tax deduction in the USA). Until then society has not acknowledged it as a member, it is purely the mother's business.
and you reaffirm my point
Thank You
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Jerimiah 1:5
Cherry picking Bible verses is both the easiest, and worst way to support a position
Cherry picking Bible verses is both the easiest, and worst way to support a position
You are only as strong as the prey you devour
kallend 2,117
QuoteJerimiah 1:5
Cherry picking Bible verses is both the easiest, and worst way to support a position
Not for an atheist.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,117
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLooking back, I misspoke. Kallend said that he believes that personhood starts at emergence from the womb (which is, in fact, generally accompanied by tax deduction, birth certificate, and SSN). The tax deduction is an American artifact; the point wasn't financial, it was about timing. I think that his opinion would be the same if asked about countries which don't give tax deductions based on children.
Wendy P.
which confirms the fact that money considerations are all that matter to him as to when life starts
WRONG AGAIN.
They are clear indications given by society that a new person has entered our society. A birth certificate and a SSN are not monetary considerations.
A baby becomes society's concern when the mother DELIVERS the baby to the world (often in a DELIVERY ROOM). Society provides certain indicators of receiving and accepting the new member (a birth certificate, a SSN, and a tax deduction in the USA). Until then society has not acknowledged it as a member, it is purely the mother's business.
and you reaffirm my point
Thank You
Your point? Your communication is so incoherent that your point is lost in the mumbling.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLooking back, I misspoke. Kallend said that he believes that personhood starts at emergence from the womb (which is, in fact, generally accompanied by tax deduction, birth certificate, and SSN). The tax deduction is an American artifact; the point wasn't financial, it was about timing. I think that his opinion would be the same if asked about countries which don't give tax deductions based on children.
Wendy P.
which confirms the fact that money considerations are all that matter to him as to when life starts
WRONG AGAIN.
They are clear indications given by society that a new person has entered our society. A birth certificate and a SSN are not monetary considerations.
A baby becomes society's concern when the mother DELIVERS the baby to the world (often in a DELIVERY ROOM). Society provides certain indicators of receiving and accepting the new member (a birth certificate, a SSN, and a tax deduction in the USA). Until then society has not acknowledged it as a member, it is purely the mother's business.
and you reaffirm my point
Thank You
Your point? Your communication is so incoherent that your point is lost in the mumbling.
and the value you give to the unborn is well understood here now
I will take being accused of being incoherent as apposed to being callus and shallow when it comes to the life of the unborn
it is so easy for you it seems
Does life really mean that little to you?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,117
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLooking back, I misspoke. Kallend said that he believes that personhood starts at emergence from the womb (which is, in fact, generally accompanied by tax deduction, birth certificate, and SSN). The tax deduction is an American artifact; the point wasn't financial, it was about timing. I think that his opinion would be the same if asked about countries which don't give tax deductions based on children.
Wendy P.
which confirms the fact that money considerations are all that matter to him as to when life starts
WRONG AGAIN.
They are clear indications given by society that a new person has entered our society. A birth certificate and a SSN are not monetary considerations.
A baby becomes society's concern when the mother DELIVERS the baby to the world (often in a DELIVERY ROOM). Society provides certain indicators of receiving and accepting the new member (a birth certificate, a SSN, and a tax deduction in the USA). Until then society has not acknowledged it as a member, it is purely the mother's business.
and you reaffirm my point
Thank You
Your point? Your communication is so incoherent that your point is lost in the mumbling.
and the value you give to the unborn is well understood here now
I will take being accused of being incoherent as apposed to being callus and shallow when it comes to the life of the unborn
it is so easy for you it seems
Does life really mean that little to you?
It is the mother's business, and NOT yours or mine.
I think you should keep your nose out of a pregnant woman's business!
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLooking back, I misspoke. Kallend said that he believes that personhood starts at emergence from the womb (which is, in fact, generally accompanied by tax deduction, birth certificate, and SSN). The tax deduction is an American artifact; the point wasn't financial, it was about timing. I think that his opinion would be the same if asked about countries which don't give tax deductions based on children.
Wendy P.
which confirms the fact that money considerations are all that matter to him as to when life starts
WRONG AGAIN.
They are clear indications given by society that a new person has entered our society. A birth certificate and a SSN are not monetary considerations.
A baby becomes society's concern when the mother DELIVERS the baby to the world (often in a DELIVERY ROOM). Society provides certain indicators of receiving and accepting the new member (a birth certificate, a SSN, and a tax deduction in the USA). Until then society has not acknowledged it as a member, it is purely the mother's business.
and you reaffirm my point
Thank You
Your point? Your communication is so incoherent that your point is lost in the mumbling.
and the value you give to the unborn is well understood here now
I will take being accused of being incoherent as apposed to being callus and shallow when it comes to the life of the unborn
it is so easy for you it seems
Does life really mean that little to you?
It is the mother's business, and NOT yours or mine.
I think you should keep your nose out of a pregnant woman's business!
My position on abortion has been clearly stated here more than once
So that just shows your statement here to be short sighted if not outright stupid
and since you seems to want to drag this off of Wendy's op it may be both and more
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
DanG 1
QuoteNo more than, say, fibroids that prevent successful implantation of the embryo does.
For any practical purpose, it's no different than if the egg was never fertilized in either case.
So really, to get back to Wendy's question, life begins at implantation in the uterine wall to you. Is that correct?
- Dan G
piisfish 140
Justin BeiberQuoteAnd I will ask you Wendy, who gets to decide?
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM
DaVinci 0
QuoteSo is a tumor. Nobody tries to claim that a fibrosarcoma has rights.
Fibrosarcoma will never have rights.
kallend 2,117
Quote
My position on abortion has been clearly stated here more than once
Very little that you write here is clearly stated.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
DaVinci 0
QuoteI'm trying to understand why folks think that the immediate results of an egg and a sperm uniting are a human being?
Because it ends up as a human. We do not discount an infant compared to childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, adulthood or old age.
Zygote, embryo, and fetus are simply other stages of a humans life. Some want to discount them since they do not appear "human"
Discounting a zygote, embryo or fetus as "less than human" based on some reason pulled out as justification (say inability to survive outside the womb) is no less silly than saying an infant is "less than human" based on its inability to survive without being taken care of.... Or the same for the elderly.
I dislike abortion. That being said.... I don't disprove of it based on some facts....
* 18% of U.S. women obtaining abortions are teenagers
* Women who have never married and are not cohabiting account for 45% of all abortions
* About 61% of abortions are obtained by women who have one or more children
* Forty-two percent of women obtaining abortions have incomes below 100% of the federal poverty level ($10,830 for a single woman with no children)
* From 1973 through 2008, nearly 50 million legal abortions occurred.
Young, single, poor people tend to have abortions. I WISH they had used contraceptives instead, but I can only imagine 50M additional unwanted children being alive... What kind of lives would they have? How much of a drain on society?
A high population creates so many problems, a high population of the poor makes matters worse.
I think the state of the US would be much worse off if we had those 50M additional unwanted children.
jclalor 12
If men got pregnant, there would be abortion clinics on every corner.
champu 1
QuoteIf men got pregnant, there would be abortion clinics on every corner.
Vending machines even.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteNo more than, say, fibroids that prevent successful implantation of the embryo does.
For any practical purpose, it's no different than if the egg was never fertilized in either case.
So really, to get back to Wendy's question, life begins at implantation in the uterine wall to you. Is that correct?
No, it's not correct. Turn the assumption machine back down from '11', thanks.
It was a rebuttal to the statement that an IUD 'terminated human life', using a comparison to a fairly common condition that can prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
DanG 1
I don't see how my assumption machine was that high. Maybe at a 3.
You said IUDs were not murder. The purpose of an IUD is to irritate the uterine wall so that implantation of a fertilized egg does not occur. With IUD use, a woman is intending for a fertilized egg to be destroyed. If life begins at conception, not implantation, why is IUD use any different from an abortion?
- Dan G
You said IUDs were not murder. The purpose of an IUD is to irritate the uterine wall so that implantation of a fertilized egg does not occur. With IUD use, a woman is intending for a fertilized egg to be destroyed. If life begins at conception, not implantation, why is IUD use any different from an abortion?
- Dan G
mnealtx 0
QuoteI don't see how my assumption machine was that high. Maybe at a 3.
Seeing as how my only contribution to the thread was to compare the result of an IUD to the result of uterine fibroids, it's set a good bit higher than 3 since you keep stating that I think life begins at conception - which you have, twice.
QuoteYou said IUDs were not murder.
No, that was maadmax.
QuoteThe purpose of an IUD is to irritate the uterine wall so that implantation of a fertilized egg does not occur.
Very good - and uterine fibroids can prevent implantation of the egg, making the end result the same as if the egg were never fertilized - no embryo.
QuoteWith IUD use, a woman is intending for a fertilized egg to be destroyed. If life begins at conception, not implantation, why is IUD use any different from an abortion?
You need to be asking maadmax this, too.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
DanG 1
Quote...you keep stating that I think life begins at conception - which you have, twice.
Well, apparently you don't think it begins at implantation. When do you think it begins?
QuoteYou need to be asking maadmax this, too.
OK, I'm officially asking you both. Alert the DZ.com authorities. With IUD use, a woman is intending for a fertilized egg to be destroyed. If life begins at conception, not implantation, why is IUD use any different from an abortion?
- Dan G
Exactly
And this is why may point is valid
It does work both ways
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
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