millertime24 8 #26 February 22, 2011 Have you had a chance to shoot the Sig .223? I think it's pretty sweet, but cant justify spending $1300 on a stock gun. My buddy has one and it's pretty fun. Now I just need to get an Aimpoint with elevated rings to clear the front gas block.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #27 February 22, 2011 Quote Have you had a chance to shoot the Sig .223? I think it's pretty sweet, but cant justify spending $1300 on a stock gun. My buddy has one and it's pretty fun. Now I just need to get an Aimpoint with elevated rings to clear the front gas block. Yeah I have. Very nice. Kind of heavy, though. If I was going to buy one, I'd buy the 556 pistol setup, since there isn't a recoil buffer tube. If you want to spend your hard earned cash on something nice, I'd get a SBR Larue AR--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #28 February 22, 2011 Quote Quote Have you had a chance to shoot the Sig .223? I think it's pretty sweet, but cant justify spending $1300 on a stock gun. My buddy has one and it's pretty fun. Now I just need to get an Aimpoint with elevated rings to clear the front gas block. Yeah I have. Very nice. Kind of heavy, though. If I was going to buy one, I'd buy the 556 pistol setup, since there isn't a recoil buffer tube. If you want to spend your hard earned cash on something nice, I'd get a SBR Larue AR The model my buddy has has a folding stock, which, I guess turns it into a pistol type gun. On that note, I was looking at more uppers and found a REALLY short one..... Then I saw the tag that said "NFA Required". BummerMuff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #29 February 22, 2011 QuoteQuotePeople who think these guns are evil and should be not owned by noone.... Go fuck yourself. I'm a gun lover, but it seems that you are merely trolling for controversy. Not at all. It's just that everytime someone post's anything about firearms on this site it is met with a few "You shouldn't be able to have that/ Guns kill people" types. I figured I would throw a response to those folks in the initial post and be done with it.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #30 February 22, 2011 Quote I got to play with one (SCAR), but I wouldn't call it any experience. Only got to run a mag through it. It was OK. I didn't get all excited about it, but it was neat. What do you want to bet that 'ol LouDiamond has got to put a few hundred through one of them? Yeah, same here, but I didn't even get to run the whole mag. Afterwards I kinda shrugged and thought "well I wouldn't say no if they were giving them away..." I am a believer in using a piston rather than direct gas. It's just so clean. But we can get that in stock AR type guns, and I watched an armorer install an aftermarket piston system in an old M16 knock off (no rails or fancy doodads, just semiauto M16A2). As for your bet, I wouldn't take that no matter what odds you offered. When I first read that, I thought you said "What do you want to bet that 'ol LouDiamond got to put a few down using one of them?" Either way, no dice, my friend.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #31 February 22, 2011 Quote As for your bet, I wouldn't take that no matter what odds you offered. When I first read that, I thought you said "What do you want to bet that 'ol LouDiamond got to put a few down using one of them?" Either way, no dice, my friend. Eh, I'd say its a toss up. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #32 February 22, 2011 What do you think about the piston design on AR's? I've read mixed things on them which is why I went with the standard gas design.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scruffy 0 #33 February 22, 2011 QuoteThe direct-impingement gas system is strictly third-world (think "Hakim"). Beyond selling some rifles to the Egyptians, how is a system designed by the French, perfected by the Swedes, and most commonly used by Americans third world?Peace, love and hoppiness Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 February 22, 2011 Most of the piston driven ARs that I've seen were what I call "hobby" guns. I define that as a gun design that was originally a gas operated design and changed by someone other than the original manufacture to run as a piston. Nearly all of those hobby guns have crapped out at some point in my presence. Usually after the operator was bragging about his piston setup. If you keep you weapon sort of clean, maintained and run OK ammo, you'll be fine with the gas system. I've seen more malfunctions due to a bent/broken or crappy magazine being used, than anything. All the problems I've ever had were due to shitty ammo or jacked up magazines. Switched all of my mags to Pmags and stopped most of my stoppage problems. I was lucky enough to take a rifle course from Jim Smith (if you saw Black Hawk Down, he was one of the Delta operators who went in after the downed pilots, but in real life). His take was that he wanted to trust his life to a proven design, something that has shown to be reliable enough to trust his life to it. If I was going to change a major system (like putting a piston on it) on my "work" rifle, I would run at least 1000rds through it before I considered it "reliable" enough for my life. Nothing runs 100%, at my office we've seen cracked Glock frames, shattered recoil springs and other stuff that shouldn't happen. We're not even that hard on gear, nothing like Scott and his people. Not even close to that!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #35 February 22, 2011 I'd like to get a piston upper, eventually, but for hobby shooting I'm not sure there's any real advantage over direct gas impingement. That said, I'm pretty sure that a piston upper from one of the major makers (Noveskye, Daniels Defense or LMT) would be a safe bet for reliability.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #36 February 22, 2011 QuoteThat said, I'm pretty sure that a piston upper from one of the major makers (Noveskye, Daniels Defense or LMT) would be a safe bet for reliability. Yeah, I've heard good things about those. Then again, those aren't really what I would consider as a "hobby" gun.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scruffy 0 #37 February 22, 2011 Did Noveske seriously make a piston gun? The last thing I heard from John Noveske was not...well lets be generous...kind to that bandwagon. ETA or did you just mean an LWRC conversion of a Noveske upper?Peace, love and hoppiness Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 February 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteThat said, I'm pretty sure that a piston upper from one of the major makers (Noveskye, Daniels Defense or LMT) would be a safe bet for reliability. Yeah, I've heard good things about those. Then again, those aren't really what I would consider as a "hobby" gun. Sure - but neither is an SBR or a pistol mod. The piston mods *are* getting more popular - what's not to like about a gun that runs cooler/cleaner?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #39 February 22, 2011 I just went around Noveske's site, I don't think they're doing a gas piston. I think what I've seen is a converted upper. What's not to love? The piston taking a crap and leaving you with a "tactical club."--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #40 February 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe direct-impingement gas system is strictly third-world (think "Hakim"). Beyond selling some rifles to the Egyptians, how is a system designed by the French, perfected by the Swedes, and most commonly used by Americans third world? Running the operating gases through the action is as bright as simplifying an engine by running the exhaust through the crankcase. The Rossignol and Ljungman were not lasting designs, and the Hakim was the most common repository of the design before the US of A decided to provide its soldiers with equipment similar to the Mattel designs with which they were raised. Most military people have zip for experience with firearms beyond those with which they have trained, and buy into the nonsense that accompanies said training. The AR-15 was an ill-considered choice, and the fact that we are stuck with it says more for our commitment to mediocrity than it does for the merits of the design. About the only reason I can think of to have an AR-15 around is the same as why you'd pick a Camaro - it is really no great shakes when all is said and done, but its sheer numbers make the quantity and variety of parts and service hard to beat. I have fired many, many tens of thousands of rounds out of AR-15 variants, and can hit pretty much anything I can see with one, but really do not care for any of them. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #41 February 22, 2011 QuoteDid Noveske seriously make a piston gun? The last thing I heard from John Noveske was not...well lets be generous...kind to that bandwagon. ETA or did you just mean an LWRC conversion of a Noveske upper? My apologies - I thought I had read that Noveske was going to build a piston AR.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #42 February 22, 2011 QuoteI just went around Noveske's site, I don't think they're doing a gas piston. I think what I've seen is a converted upper. What's not to love? The piston taking a crap and leaving you with a "tactical club." Being fair, *any* failure in the gas system leaves you with a 'tactical club' until you can get it fixed, whether DI or piston.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #43 February 22, 2011 Quote Not at all. It's just that everytime someone post's anything about firearms on this site it is met with a few "You shouldn't be able to have that/ Guns kill people" types. I figured I would throw a response to those folks in the initial post and be done with it. Fair enough. By the way, nice rifle. For the record, I'm all for gun control - being able to hit your target"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #44 February 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteI just went around Noveske's site, I don't think they're doing a gas piston. I think what I've seen is a converted upper. What's not to love? The piston taking a crap and leaving you with a "tactical club." Being fair, *any* failure in the gas system leaves you with a 'tactical club' until you can get it fixed, whether DI or piston. Yeah, but I've never seen a gas system break, just get clogged, which can be fixed in the field. I've seen piston systems no-shit break. Gun smith required to run. I'm sure this is similar to having a wingloading argument on AR-15.com...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scruffy 0 #45 February 22, 2011 It's understandable though, there was a lot of talk about such things and I would wager most people that see piston Noveskes actually think the piston was made by them too. But John Noveske, as far as I know anyway, is pretty dead set against piston guns, and pushing his "switchblock" gas block system as an alternative.Peace, love and hoppiness Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #46 February 22, 2011 Quote I'm sure this is similar to having a wingloading argument on AR-15.com... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #47 February 22, 2011 QuoteYeah, but I've never seen a gas system break, just get clogged, which can be fixed in the field. I've seen piston systems no-shit break. Gun smith required to run. an entry level article for those interested in the basics I have seen gas systems take a shit. Full on take it to a gunsmith or can it type stoppages. Same with cheap drop-in piston systems. I'd never want to trust my life to an aftermarket change like that. But like you said, we're more likely to face malfunctions due to bad mags or dirty guts of the gun. However, if I could get a piston driven gun from a top maker, I wouldn't hesitate. The thing I like about the new guns is that they are going away from the AR style rear charging handle in favor of a ambi charging handle above/in front of the mag well. I never liked that slingshot pinch and pull POS. Enough training and you can make it work, as seen over the last three or four decades, but I prefer to succeed in part because of my gun, not in spite of it. QuoteI'm sure this is similar to having a wingloading argument on AR-15.com... witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #48 February 22, 2011 quick question for you military/police etc persons... Do you HAVE to buy your guns, or do you have "some" provided by your employer ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #49 February 22, 2011 Quotequick question for you military/police etc persons... Do you HAVE to buy your guns, or do you have "some" provided by your employer ? To use an answer from another thread: Yes, no and maybe. For law enforcement, it all depends on the department. Some departments will provide everything you need but underwear. Some of those departments run some goofy configurations, but will allow you to purchase your own gear as long as it meets certain standards. An example would be allowing you to buy and carry your own patrol rifle as long as it is an "AR style weapon chambered in .223/.556, is box magazine fed, passes an annual inspection by a qualified armorer and the officer qualifies on that weapon per department standards." That prevents people from buying goofy off-chambered weapons or bringing things like M-14s in. Why? Well, that is what administration decided. Sometimes there is a good reason, sometimes there isn't. Some departments don't have the budget, so if you want to to carry it, you better buy it yourself. Some departments don't even have a defined policy, just an SOP that says you can carry it if you've trained on it. The officers who buy their own gear, do it because they really need to or they really want to. The reason is, if they use it at work, that gun is taken from them until the court proceedings are over. That includes the investigation on the officer and sometimes the court cases on the person they shot. The weapon isn't cleaned, the weapon is made safe and placed in an evidence locker. So a couple of years later, they get their weapon back. It is understood that if you use your weapon, it is gone and when you get it back, you'll be rebuilding it. So be prepared to purchase another in the mean time. For department issued guns, they'll just give you another one of theirs.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #50 February 22, 2011 Quote Anyway, is it wrong that I see my wishlist for the next several years in this four minute video. Nice.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
