Wisconsin democrats leave state to avoid union vote

[happythoughts 0]

it is a difficult thing to stay and vote yes/no. people can point to a voting record. leaving is politically wise, but it is not what the voters of Wisconsin pay them for. the "party of change" is being asked to vote on a change.

[Andy9o8 2]

I'd say I'm basically in agreement with the following:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/02/fleeing_vs_filibustering_vs_60.html

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Fleeing vs. filibustering vs. 60-vote requirements
By Ezra Klein

Good point by Matt Yglesias:

[W]hat’s happening in Wisconsin is more like a “classic” filibuster than a modern-style routine supermajority. The Democratic caucus of the State Senate can’t hold out forever, nor can they pull this every time Governor Walker proposes a bill they don’t like. What they can do is slow things down and try to see if public opinion swings around to their side.

The flight of Wisconsin's Democrats is a stunt -- and I don't mean that in a bad way. It's an attempt to dramatize the depth of their opposition, throw some sand in the gears of the process and see whether a couple of days of protests and media coverage can turn the tide on this one. But if it fails, I don't think they should hang out in Illinois till the next election. These are the governor and the legislators that the people of Wisconsin voted into office. If the people of Wisconsin decide they made a mistake, well, 2012 isn't that far off.

And that's how things should work, I think. As it happens, I quite like the idea of extended debate. It makes much more sense than having to hide out in Illinois. But either way, minorities that feel extremely strongly about a particular piece of legislation should be able to slow things down and try to convince people that they're right. But doing so should be difficult and rare, and if they fail in their effort to peel off members of the majority, they should lose and seek recourse in the next election. When the voters elect a new majority, they should get what they asked for.

.

[kawisixer01 0]

In my opinin the senators should be rounded up and jailed per WI statute 946.12 which reads:

946.12

946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

946.12(1)

(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer's or employee's office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law...

http://law.justia.com/wisconsin/codes/2010/946/946.12.html

[turtlespeed 226]

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In my opinin the senators should be rounded up and jailed per WI statute 946.12 which reads:

946.12

946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

946.12(1)

(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer's or employee's office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law...

http://law.justia.com/wisconsin/codes/2010/946/946.12.html

Good luck prosecuting, but I agree.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[muff528 3]

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............ minorities that feel extremely strongly about a particular piece of legislation should be able to slow things down and try to convince people that they're right......

Party of "NO"? ...the tables turn (as they should, BTW).

[popsjumper 2]

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As far as if the people want the change, obviously they did - they elected the people doing the changing. it is not a one person spread - it is 19 to 14 there is a 5 person difference.

That is highly presumptive. There is no indication as to what the voters want either way and please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Just because they got elected doesn't mean that their vote on any issue actually or accurately reflects voters preferences.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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More when I learn it.

Thanks, man. Well! What you posted certainly makes it seem as though there IS a law that says cops can apprehend them and drag them back...which kinda explains them going to another state.

I wonder, is there some specific code violation that they would be charged with or is it simply that cops can come take them and force them to go someplace. I have to assume that there is a chargeable code. Ummmm...Aggravated Oath Violation or something? Truancy? Failure to suck up republicans? (j/k)


19 yeas, 14 abstains, 5 WTH?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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2 - the majority of the citizenry is likely for spending cuts - the interviews and news reports here (MN, WI) bear me out.

This is interesting. We DO have to question just who is being interviewed and just who is reporting.

You know how it is...interviews and reports are presented in support of the particular agenda of the interviewer and reporter..or their respective organizations.

Not denying anything here, just questioning.


...and just for the record...
Me? I do not support unions simply because I think they do more harm than good these days.

Yes, they had their time an place in the past.
Yes, if all of a sudden unions were removed, employers would no doubt in my mind, take advantage of that.

I like to think that the fall-back would eventually settle out into some sort of equilibrium where both sides find employer/employee relations workable.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rushmc 23]

Seems now the rank n file dems have trouble obeying a law or work rule

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/19/saturdays-protests-wisconsin-expected-biggest/#

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'Fake' Sick Notes Given to Wis. Protestors as Sides Face Off Over Anti-Union Bill

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 226]

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Seems now the rank n file dems have trouble obeying a law or work rule

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/19/saturdays-protests-wisconsin-expected-biggest/#

Quote

'Fake' Sick Notes Given to Wis. Protestors as Sides Face Off Over Anti-Union Bill

Where is the outrage from the left from the behavior of these people?

OH - yeah - I forgot, they condone and encourage it.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Seems now the rank n file dems have trouble obeying a law or work rule

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/19/saturdays-protests-wisconsin-expected-biggest/#

Quote

'Fake' Sick Notes Given to Wis. Protestors as Sides Face Off Over Anti-Union Bill

Where is the outrage from the left from the behavior of these people?

OH - yeah - I forgot, they condone and encourage it.

Selectively



yes

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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Quote

Seems now the rank n file dems have trouble obeying a law or work rule

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/19/saturdays-protests-wisconsin-expected-biggest/#

Quote

'Fake' Sick Notes Given to Wis. Protestors as Sides Face Off Over Anti-Union Bill

Where is the outrage from the left from the behavior of these people?

OH - yeah - I forgot, they condone and encourage it.

Hey you have enough OUTRAGE for everyone else.... no one else need apply.

[Kennedy 0]

Do you think it's ok for teachers to hold sick-outs whenever they wish, to the point of shutting down schools?
Do you agree that there are laws and contractual obligations concerning when tonstrike and how to reach that point?
Since this isn't a declared strike, and teachers are calling out sick to go protest, those teachers should be held accountable for abusing sick leave?
Do you care that kids aren't being educated and that the poorest ones are being denied their free breakfast and lunch?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Amazon 7]

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Do you think it's ok for teachers to hold sick-outs whenever they wish, to the point of shutting down schools?
Do you agree that there are laws and contractual obligations concerning when tonstrike and how to reach that point?
Since this isn't a declared strike, and teachers are calling out sick to go protest, those teachers should be held accountable for abusing sick leave?
Do you care that kids aren't being educated and that the poorest ones are being denied their free breakfast and lunch?

Nice RIGHT WING RANT....

Got anything that is not scripted by the Koch Brothers and Lush Lamebrain???

Are they hiring private armies too?

[Kennedy 0]

So now asking questions is a right wing rant? Is there anyone right of you that isn't a right wing nutjob in your mind? Is there anyone left of you at all? I stated in this very thread I don't agree with all of what the governor is doing. I also said I don't agree with a lot of what the teachers are doing. The ones that really disgust me are the politicians fleeing the state. That and posters who can't put out a single post without spewing bile and screaming about jackbooted right wing nutjob closeted homosexuals.

Re: private armies
Do you understand that your rants against blackwater are a joke? Did you even read the responses that hacked apart the garbage article you posted? Or are you so stuck on your rants that you don't care how nutty the arguments, how hypocritical the conclusions, or how factually incorrect the articles are as long as they support your views? You know who you sound like, right?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

Seems now the rank n file dems have trouble obeying a law or work rule

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/19/saturdays-protests-wisconsin-expected-biggest/#

Quote

'Fake' Sick Notes Given to Wis. Protestors as Sides Face Off Over Anti-Union Bill

Where is the outrage from the left from the behavior of these people?

OH - yeah - I forgot, they condone and encourage it.

Have some Wisconsin Cheddar to go with that.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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So now asking questions is a right wing rant? Is there anyone right of you that isn't a right wing nutjob in your mind? Is there anyone left of you at all? I stated in this very thread I don't agree with all of what the governor is doing. I also said I don't agree with a lot of what the teachers are doing. The ones that really disgust me are the politicians fleeing the state. That and posters who can't put out a single post without spewing bile and screaming about jackbooted right wing nutjob closeted homosexuals.

Re: private armies
Do you understand that your rants against blackwater are a joke? Did you even read the responses that hacked apart the garbage article you posted? Or are you so stuck on your rants that you don't care how nutty the arguments, how hypocritical the conclusions, or how factually incorrect the articles are as long as they support your views? You know who you sound like, right?

Well then if you find them so reprehensible.. why dont you go find them and deliver them all to the RIGHT WING NUTJOB Gov... Pick up some cheese while you are there mmmmkkk

The only way your buddies can operate... is in a dark world... you and they seem to do a whole lot of scurrying to deny they exist... when you get some light on ya...move along... These are not the Christian mercenaries you have heard about.. move along...

DUUUDE

how did that Koch Brothers labeled sinker and hook taste as it passed thru that you are dragging around behind you

[turtlespeed 226]

So you and Kallend DO endorse and condone and encourage this. Correct?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[airdvr 210]

Yep..Start cutting some of those bennies and watch 'em scream. Get used to it libs...more is on the way. The tit is about to be pulled from your mouth.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

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So you and Kallend DO endorse and condone and encourage this. Correct?

Yes... yes I do... I think you and Kennedy and the rest of the right wing.. should eat far more Wisconsin Cheese.

[Amazon 7]

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Yep..Start cutting some of those bennies and watch 'em scream. Get used to it libs...more is on the way. The tit is about to be pulled from your mouth.

MY that is a stunning engraved sinker and hook dragging behind you with the Koch Brothers monogram on them.

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

So you and Kallend DO endorse and condone and encourage this. Correct?

Maybe the story has another side:
host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html
In fact, like just about every other state in the country, Wisconsin is managing in a weak economy. The difference is that Wisconsin is managing better -- or at least it had been managing better until Walker took over. Despite shortfalls in revenue following the economic downturn that hit its peak with the Bush-era stock market collapse, the state has balanced budgets, maintained basic services and high-quality schools, and kept employment and business development steadier than the rest of the country. It has managed so well, in fact, that the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau recently released a memo detailing how the state will end the 2009-2011 budget biennium with a budget surplus.

...

To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist.

...
he Fiscal Bureau memo -- which readers can access at http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf -- makes it clear that Walker did not inherit a budget that required a repair bill.

...
Walker is not interested in balanced budgets, efficient government or meaningful job creation.
Walker is interested in gaming the system to benefit his political allies and campaign contributors.
To achieve that end, he has proposed a $137 million budget “repair” bill that he intends to use as a vehicle to:
1. Undermine the long-established collective bargaining rights of public employee unions, which have for 80 years been the strongest advocates for programs that serve the great mass of Wisconsinites, as opposed to wealthy elites and corporate special interests. As Racine’s Democratic state Rep. Cory Mason says, the governor’s bill is designed not with the purpose of getting the state’s finances in order but as “an assault on Wisconsin’s working families and political payback against unions who didn’t support Gov. Walker.”
2. Pay for schemes that redirect state tax dollars to wealthy individuals and corporate interests that have been sources of campaign funding for Walker’s fellow Republicans and special-interest campaigns on their behalf. As Madison’s Democratic state Rep. Brett Hulsey notes, the governor and legislators aligned with him have over the past month given away special-interest favors to every lobby group that came asking, creating zero jobs in the process “but increasing the deficit by more than $100 million.”

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[dmcoco84 5]

The Cap Times... your progressive voice

Lovely... but you didn't obey the progressives, Fairness Doctrine.

I'll help.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/18/obamas-war-on-democracy/

The public educators engaged in the demonstrations, many of whom earn more than $100,000 in salary and benefits,

...

These demonstrations may be dramatic and TV-friendly, but White House operatives and their union cronies are on the wrong side of history. The American people are fed up with a sense of entitlement, waste and abuse in government service. Americans in the private sector have lost jobs, been forced to take pay cuts to continue working and have reduced spending just to make ends meat. Government workers face no such jeopardy and instead enjoy automatic raises, regardless of performance. The measures causing all the ruckus in Wisconsin would require public-sector employees (excluding police and firefighters) to contribute half of their pension costs and at least 12 percent of their health care costs, which is a better deal than most Americans get. The public sector employees also would lose collective bargaining rights for anything other than pay. These are reasonable sacrifices to make in a time of fiscal crisis, and by resisting them, the demonstrators expose themselves as selfish and unreasonable.


Sad watching yall argue over D and R bullshit, when they are the same damn thing.... PROGRESSIVE!

Arguing the facts, and having common sense is far more... productive.

There is No Money... We Are Broke... Party... OVER!

[kallend 2,146]

Facts? What part of

"It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist."

did you fail to comprehend?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Quote

So now asking questions is a right wing rant? Is there anyone right of you that isn't a right wing nutjob in your mind? Is there anyone left of you at all? I stated in this very thread I don't agree with all of what the governor is doing. I also said I don't agree with a lot of what the teachers are doing. The ones that really disgust me are the politicians fleeing the state. That and posters who can't put out a single post without spewing bile and screaming about jackbooted right wing nutjob closeted homosexuals.

Re: private armies
Do you understand that your rants against blackwater are a joke? Did you even read the responses that hacked apart the garbage article you posted? Or are you so stuck on your rants that you don't care how nutty the arguments, how hypocritical the conclusions, or how factually incorrect the articles are as long as they support your views? You know who you sound like, right?

Well then if you find them so reprehensible.. why dont you go find them and deliver them all to the RIGHT WING NUTJOB Gov... Pick up some cheese while you are there mmmmkkk

What ever happened to your reading comprehension? As I've already said clearly in this thread, I would not support, let alone participate in, kidnapping elected officials or transporting them across state lines. They are cowards, and they fled their home state to hide out in another state to put them beyond the reach of the laws they swore to uphold. If it were nation-wide, I'm sure they would have gone to Canada instead. Where I still wouldn't say anyone should go get them. I'd say leave them there to rot and hold special elections to fill vacant seats. Unlike the goose-stepping totalitarian goobers who want government to control their lives ("for the greater good"), I don't see a need to use violence, even government sanctioned violence, to coerce others the share my views. So how do those new boots fit, Jeanne? You know, the ones you keep sharing pictures of.

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The only way your buddies can operate... is in a dark world... you and they seem to do a whole lot of scurrying to deny they exist... when you get some light on ya...move along... These are not the Christian mercenaries you have heard about.. move along...

Did you call it scurrying when Obama said he wasnt from Kenya? Or that he wasn't a Muslim? Or that there was no controlled demolition in the WTC?
Just because rabid fools keep accusing you of something and you have to keep denying it because it isn't true, that doesn't make it scurrying. It makes them conspiracy nuts and whackjobs.

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how did that Koch Brothers labeled sinker and hook taste as it passed thru that you are dragging around behind you

Right, because everyone who agrees with you is an elightened free thinker, and everyone who disagrees with you is a goose-stepping moron dancing to a fascist beat. And now you've decided the drummers are the Koch brothers. Congratulations pot, you've called the tea kettle black.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*