The Disastrous War on Drugs Turns 40

[dreamdancer 0]

utter madness...

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Some anniversaries provide an occasion for celebration, others a time for reflection, still others a time for action. This June will mark forty years since President Nixon declared a "war on drugs," identifying drug abuse as "public enemy No. 1." As far as I know, no celebrations are planned. What's needed, indeed essential, are reflection -- and action.

It's hard to believe that Americans have spent roughly a trillion dollars (give or take a few hundred million) on this forty-year war. Hard to believe that tens of millions have been arrested, and many millions locked up in jails and prisons, for committing nonviolent acts that were not even crimes a century ago. Hard to believe that the number of people incarcerated on drug charges increased more than ten times even as the country's population grew by only half. Hard to believe that millions of Americans have been deprived of the right to vote not because they killed a fellow citizen or betrayed their country but simply because they bought, sold, produced or simply possessed a psychoactive plant or chemical. And hard to believe that hundreds of thousands of Americans have been allowed to die -- of overdoses, AIDS, hepatitis and other diseases -- because the drug war blocked and even prohibited treating addiction to certain drugs as a health problem rather than a criminal one.

Reflect we must on not just the consequences of this war at home but abroad as well. The prohibition-related crime, violence and corruption in Mexico today resemble Chicago during alcohol Prohibition -- times fifty. Parts of Central America are even more out of control, and many Caribbean nations can only hope that they are not next. The illegal opium and heroin markets in Afghanistan reportedly account for one-third to half of the country's GDP. In Africa, prohibitionist profiteering, trafficking and corruption are spreading rapidly. As for South America and Asia, just pick a moment and a country -- and the stories are much the same, from Colombia, Peru, Paraguay and Brazil to Pakistan, Laos, Burma and Thailand.

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/149895/the_disastrous_war_on_drugs_turns_40%3A_5_ways_to_stop_the_madness/

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[turtlespeed 226]

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utter madness...

Quote

Some anniversaries provide an occasion for celebration, others a time for reflection, still others a time for action. This June will mark forty years since President Nixon declared a "war on drugs," identifying drug abuse as "public enemy No. 1." As far as I know, no celebrations are planned. What's needed, indeed essential, are reflection -- and action.

It's hard to believe that Americans have spent roughly a trillion dollars (give or take a few hundred million) on this forty-year war. Hard to believe that tens of millions have been arrested, and many millions locked up in jails and prisons, for committing nonviolent acts that were not even crimes a century ago. Hard to believe that the number of people incarcerated on drug charges increased more than ten times even as the country's population grew by only half. Hard to believe that millions of Americans have been deprived of the right to vote not because they killed a fellow citizen or betrayed their country but simply because they bought, sold, produced or simply possessed a psychoactive plant or chemical. And hard to believe that hundreds of thousands of Americans have been allowed to die -- of overdoses, AIDS, hepatitis and other diseases -- because the drug war blocked and even prohibited treating addiction to certain drugs as a health problem rather than a criminal one.

Reflect we must on not just the consequences of this war at home but abroad as well. The prohibition-related crime, violence and corruption in Mexico today resemble Chicago during alcohol Prohibition -- times fifty. Parts of Central America are even more out of control, and many Caribbean nations can only hope that they are not next. The illegal opium and heroin markets in Afghanistan reportedly account for one-third to half of the country's GDP. In Africa, prohibitionist profiteering, trafficking and corruption are spreading rapidly. As for South America and Asia, just pick a moment and a country -- and the stories are much the same, from Colombia, Peru, Paraguay and Brazil to Pakistan, Laos, Burma and Thailand.

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/149895/the_disastrous_war_on_drugs_turns_40%3A_5_ways_to_stop_the_madness/

More threads - more ignorance.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[funjumper101 15]

I thought that right wing conservatives believed in personal freedom and responsibility.

It seems that these ideas only apply to certain aspects of personal freedom, like gun ownership and unfettered property rights. Personal drug use and personal medical decisions between a person and their doctors are not part of a right wing conservative's version of personal freedom and responsibility. Quite hypocritical if you think about it, isn't it?

Why is keeping recreational drugs illegal a good thing for the USA and their neighbors? Why do right wing conservatives have such a hard time learning from recent history? The Volstead Act was a disaster for the country. The WOD has had the same effect.

Let's see the hypocrites handle this one.

[nanook 1]

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I thought that right wing conservatives believed in personal freedom and responsibility.

Your personal freedoms is not going to infringe on my personal freedoms. We already have alcohol and drunk drivers. Don't need any more crap.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[winsor 236]

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I thought that right wing conservatives believed in personal freedom and responsibility.

Your personal freedoms is not going to infringe on my personal freedoms. We already have alcohol and drunk drivers. Don't need any more crap.

Compared to alcohol, marijuana is a gift from god.

The two very worst addictive drugs out there, all hysteria aside, are alcohol and tobacco. I say that, if it is not significantly worse than alcohol and/or tobacco, legalize it.

FWIW, I do not smoke, drink or take drugs, so I have no vested interest either way.

[AndyBoyd 0]

Due to new regulations at work, I can't take a public stand one way or the other on this issue. But I just thought I'd point out that while most conservatives still seem to be in favor of the "war on drugs," there is a growing minority of conservative thinkers in favor of legalization.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/25/the-conservative-case-for-legalizing-pot.html

http://old.nationalreview.com/12feb96/drug.html

From the National Review article:

"Things being as they are, and people as they are, there is no way to prevent somebody, somewhere, from concluding that ``NATIONAL REVIEW favors drugs.'' We don't; we deplore their use; we urge the stiffest feasible sentences against anyone convicted of selling a drug to a minor. But that said, it is our judgment that the war on drugs has failed, that it is diverting intelligent energy away from how to deal with the problem of addiction, that it is wasting our resources, and that it is encouraging civil, judicial, and penal procedures associated with police states. We all agree on movement toward legalization, even though we may differ on just how far."

[Guest]

Some of your favorite places in the world (e.g., Iran) have huge drug addiction problems and are doing their damnedest to stomp the pushers....

Oh wait, that's the USA's fault as well.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[popsjumper 2]

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I thought that right wing conservatives believed in personal freedom and responsibility.

I'd agree with that but I wouldn't limit to right wing conservatives.

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Why is keeping recreational drugs illegal a good thing for the USA and their neighbors?

Because of the devastating effects of drug use on the people and property of this country...and every country. There's no distinction between "recreational drugs" and any other drug. They can all be used for "recreation".
(Recreation sounds like frisbee in the park, doesn't it?)

Granted, some of them only once but there you go.

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Why do right wing conservatives have such a hard time learning from recent history?

Recent history has shown quite clearly that drug use has caused severe problems for us in this, and every, country.

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The Volstead Act was a disaster for the country. The WOD has had the same effect.

The VA was repealed by the Blaine Act of '33 mainly because the criminal activities of those willing to break the law and the willingness of the American people to accept that.

Yes, what we have here with the current mood on drugs is the same...criminal element and acceptance by the people.

Utopia: Everyone obeys the law and nobody indulges in illegal drug procurement and use. No, it ain't gonna happen.

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Let's see the hypocrites handle this one.

Do you think it's hypocritical to want none of the problems associated with drug use?

Are you one of the extremists thinking all or nothing with respect to personal freedom?

If yes, then do you need to have it pointed out to you where this extremism leads to more trouble?
Here's one...that guy that has the freedom to indulge in his heroin habit legally is still going to need money to buy it. He just may be getting that money from your house...while your wife and children are there.

[sarcasm]Oh! My bad that's already happening! Let's blame it on the War on Drugs![/sarcasm]

Or maybe you want to make all drugs free to the user and pay for his indulgence out of your own pocket? I don't, thank you.

Legalization is not going to eliminate the black market. Pablo Escobar would not have been opening up a pharmacy if he were still alive. He would simply move operations into some other form (some existing, some new) of illegal activity....quite like the gangsters of the 30's did after the repeal of the VA.

Since so many people are so willing to flick their nose at law and order there may be no viable solution to the drug problem other than continue to hold those flickers responsible for their actions.

My idea? On the face of it, I could see similar to indian reservations,
-pick out a plot of land,
-surround it with a fence,
-put all the druggies in there,
-give 'em each a shovel and a bag of seeds and
-let them go at it without any commerce with the rest of the country.
-shoot anybody caught smuggling drugs...on the boat...before they get here.

The druggies are going to just love that idea.



Hell, while we're at it, let's all decide we won't pay taxes. Tax law will eventually get repealed!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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The two very worst addictive drugs out there, all hysteria aside, are alcohol and tobacco. I say that, if it is not significantly worse than alcohol and/or tobacco, legalize it.

Personally, I think alcohol is a devastating drug if for no other reason than because it's so often abused with devastating results.

edited to add: Well, alcohol HAS provided many chuckles while watching the drunks do stupid shit.

But to address your statement, which one, in your opinion, are not significantly worse than alcohol and tobacco?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

Quote

I thought that right wing conservatives believed in personal freedom and responsibility.

I'd agree with that but I wouldn't limit to right wing conservatives.

Quote

Why is keeping recreational drugs illegal a good thing for the USA and their neighbors?

Because of the devastating effects of drug use on the people and property of this country...and every country. There's no distinction between "recreational drugs" and any other drug. They can all be used for "recreation".
(Recreation sounds like frisbee in the park, doesn't it?)

Granted, some of them only once but there you go.

Quote

Why do right wing conservatives have such a hard time learning from recent history?

Recent history has shown quite clearly that drug use has caused severe problems for us in this, and every, country.

Quote

The Volstead Act was a disaster for the country. The WOD has had the same effect.

The VA was repealed by the Blaine Act of '33 mainly because the criminal activities of those willing to break the law and the willingness of the American people to accept that.

Yes, what we have here with the current mood on drugs is the same...criminal element and acceptance by the people.

Utopia: Everyone obeys the law and nobody indulges in illegal drug procurement and use. No, it ain't gonna happen.

Quote

Let's see the hypocrites handle this one.

Do you think it's hypocritical to want none of the problems associated with drug use?

Are you one of the extremists thinking all or nothing with respect to personal freedom?

If yes, then do you need to have it pointed out to you where this extremism leads to more trouble?
Here's one...that guy that has the freedom to indulge in his heroin habit legally is still going to need money to buy it. He just may be getting that money from your house...while your wife and children are there.

[sarcasm]Oh! My bad that's already happening! Let's blame it on the War on Drugs![/sarcasm]

Or maybe you want to make all drugs free to the user and pay for his indulgence out of your own pocket? I don't, thank you.

Legalization is not going to eliminate the black market. Pablo Escobar would not have been opening up a pharmacy if he were still alive. He would simply move operations into some other form (some existing, some new) of illegal activity....quite like the gangsters of the 30's did after the repeal of the VA.

Since so many people are so willing to flick their nose at law and order there may be no viable solution to the drug problem other than continue to hold those flickers responsible for their actions.

My idea? On the face of it, I could see similar to indian reservations,
-pick out a plot of land,
-surround it with a fence,
-put all the druggies in there,
-give 'em each a shovel and a bag of seeds and
-let them go at it without any commerce with the rest of the country.
-shoot anybody caught smuggling drugs...on the boat...before they get here.

The druggies are going to just love that idea.

You could substitute the word "alcohol" for "drugs" in this post and you'd have pretty much the same argument the Prohibitionists had 90 years ago.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[winsor 236]

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The two very worst addictive drugs out there, all hysteria aside, are alcohol and tobacco. I say that, if it is not significantly worse than alcohol and/or tobacco, legalize it.

Personally, I think alcohol is a devastating drug if for no other reason than because it's so often abused with devastating results.

edited to add: Well, alcohol HAS provided many chuckles while watching the drunks do stupid shit.

But to address your statement, which one, in your opinion, are not significantly worse than alcohol and tobacco?

[dmcoco84 5]

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It seems that these ideas only apply to certain aspects of personal freedom, like gun ownership and unfettered property rights. Personal drug use and personal medical decisions between a person and their doctors are not part of a right wing conservative's version of personal freedom and responsibility. Quite hypocritical if you think about it, isn't it?

Why is keeping recreational drugs illegal a good thing for the USA and their neighbors? Why do right wing conservatives have such a hard time learning from recent history? The Volstead Act was a disaster for the country. The WOD has had the same effect.

Because Conservatism is flawed.

Constitutional Conservatism is Better.

[dmcoco84 5]

If we were functioning properly under the Constitution, having no Controlled Substances Act:

Marijuana would be legal is several states... and more than half of the states would eventually allow it for medical use.

Meth, Cocaine, Crack, PCP... I highly doubt any state would allow these for medical uses, let alone be legal. We use cocaine in the ER to stop bad nose bleeds... past that, it has no other benefits that I know of.

Heroine... Does have medical uses. Legal - likely nowhere.

Things like Opioids, Benzo's, Antibiotics, would all be by prescription only... just as they are now.

The point is... the Federal Government doesn't have the right to do what they are doing: States Rights.

Lets the States decide for themselves!


Hooked: History of Illegal Drugs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umq6H3aJfwE

Edit to Add:
Ecstasy - Definitely for Medical Uses - Great for our vets with PTSD.
LSD, Psilocybin - Definitely Legal

[Amazon 7]

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I thought that right wing conservatives believed in personal freedom and responsibility.

It seems that these ideas only apply to certain aspects of personal freedom, like gun ownership and unfettered property rights. Personal drug use and personal medical decisions between a person and their doctors are not part of a right wing conservative's version of personal freedom and responsibility. Quite hypocritical if you think about it, isn't it?

Why is keeping recreational drugs illegal a good thing for the USA and their neighbors? Why do right wing conservatives have such a hard time learning from recent history? The Volstead Act was a disaster for the country. The WOD has had the same effect.

Let's see the hypocrites handle this one.

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