JohnRich 4 #1 February 14, 2011 News:Switzerland rejects tighter gun controls Twenty of the 26 cantons and 56.3% of voters rejected the plan, meaning the current system allowing army-issue weapons to be kept at home will remain. Supporters of the tighter curbs wanted to have weapons kept in armouries and were demanding stricter checks on gun owners. Opponents said the move would have undermined trust in the army...Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12441834 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 February 14, 2011 Too bad some others just fail and use their service weapons to kill other people. We had maybe 5 incidents in the last 10 years....scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #3 February 15, 2011 To place such PC controls on arms would, in my opinion, serve only to undermine traditional Swiss neutrality (not invoking Godwin here, but Hitler decided to leave Switzerland alone - he knew he'd have a very hard fight on his hands, and it just wasn't worth it. Once that was understood, recognizing Swiss neutrality in WWII was fait accompli). And did you notice that although the country is apparently awash in modern firearms (est 2.8 million arms vs 8 mil citizens), "Switzerland's overall crime rate is low by European standards"? Blaming guns for suicide is like blaming forks because some people (esp. Americans) are fat, or blaming pornography for rape. If people want to off themselves, they'll find a way. Maybe the bleeding hearts in Switzerland should dig a little deeper to find the reasons. Perhaps they don't want to because if they do, they'll likely find that firearms are method, not cause. Note also that the Swiss citizens weren't buying the usual gun-grabber scaremongering, either. Actually, it was quite the opposite - the most effective poster IMO was the "Waffen monopol für Verbrecher?" (criminal monopoly for guns?). The bullet-teddy bear wasn't working for me, either (both attached) mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #4 February 15, 2011 this one was also pretty paradoxal.... it is a poster by the young "very right" party... he was threatening to drop the gun, and he is now a gay icon throughout the country scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #5 February 15, 2011 and sure enough, the same day, one of our leaders, sommaruga, head of justice, says she wants to implement stricter gun-control anyway.. talking about respect for the voters opinons. i'm also glad to keep my guns at home, i was trusted enough to guard the World Economic Forum three times, some embassies and residences of ambassadors and the G-10. dont really have a clue why i shouldnt be trusted anymore now.. sure, there are about 300 suicides each year with army-issued weapons, but hey, call up the suicide help line and get a "sorry, we're busy right now" as an answer.. yes, there are deeper issues than "gun control" obviously.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #6 February 16, 2011 Quote sure, there are about 300 suicides each year with army-issued weapons, 300? where do you get that from ? In 2009 there were 18 cases (6 with pistol, 12 with assault rifle)... And even if suicide is bad, that you shouldn't do it with an army-issued weapon, it's still "less worse" than jumping under a train and forcing thousands of people to get late at work/back home.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #7 February 16, 2011 Quote Quote sure, there are about 300 suicides each year with army-issued weapons, 33?? where do you get that from ? In 2009 there were 18 cases (6 with pistol, 12 with assault rifle)... And even if suicide is bad, that you shouldn't do it with an army-issued weapon, it's still "less worse" than jumping under a train and forcing thousands of people to get late at work/back home. wasnt that the numbers they were throwing around? hell knows, never believe a politician..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #8 February 16, 2011 Quote wasnt that the numbers they were throwing around? hell knows, never believe a politician.. politi-statisticians are the worse imagine, that would be almost 1 suicide a day with a military weapon... I think 300 would be the total "effective" suicides in Switz per year (but I could be wrong)scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #9 February 16, 2011 Whats your point John? As you have acknowledged in the past the problem is not the guns but the culture in which they are misused. Therefore Swiss examples are not relevant to anywhere but Switzerland.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #10 February 16, 2011 Quote Quote wasnt that the numbers they were throwing around? hell knows, never believe a politician.. politi-statisticians are the worse imagine, that would be almost 1 suicide a day with a military weapon... I think 300 would be the total "effective" suicides in Switz per year (but I could be wrong) you're probably right.. we should ban bridges, mountains, trains, lakes and rivers, high buildings, ropes, knives medicaments and chemicals, plastic bags and cars. and guns. no more suicides, yay! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #11 February 16, 2011 Quote Quote Quote wasnt that the numbers they were throwing around? hell knows, never believe a politician.. politi-statisticians are the worse imagine, that would be almost 1 suicide a day with a military weapon... I think 300 would be the total "effective" suicides in Switz per year (but I could be wrong) we should also ban butter lumps, I heard you could use them to murder your husband you're probably right.. we should ban bridges, mountains, trains, lakes and rivers, high buildings, ropes, knives medicaments and chemicals, plastic bags and cars. and guns. no more suicides, yay! scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #12 February 16, 2011 QuoteWhats your point John? As you have acknowledged in the past the problem is not the guns but the culture in which they are misused. Therefore Swiss examples are not relevant to anywhere but Switzerland. i think i started shooting army rifles at age 14. got it to bring it home with me. fully-auto, too!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #13 February 16, 2011 how would you do that!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 February 16, 2011 QuoteWhats your point John? No point. Just news. An example of citizens recognizing the fallacy of gun control theory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #15 February 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhats your point John? As you have acknowledged in the past the problem is not the guns but the culture in which they are misused. Therefore Swiss examples are not relevant to anywhere but Switzerland. i think i started shooting army rifles at age 14. got it to bring it home with me. fully-auto, too! Nice, I started using them at 12.5yrs old but couldn't bring them home.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #16 February 16, 2011 you know which 6 cantons voted for more gun control. I'll take a wild guess and say Vaud,Valais,Neuchâtel,Geneva,Jura and Ticino Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #17 February 16, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Whats your point John? As you have acknowledged in the past the problem is not the guns but the culture in which they are misused. Therefore Swiss examples are not relevant to anywhere but Switzerland. i think i started shooting army rifles at age 14. got it to bring it home with me. fully-auto, too! Nice, I started using them at 12.5yrs old but couldn't bring them home. Same here, I started shooting at 14, the British government trusted me to shoot .22's, .303's, 9 mm's and shotguns in the middle of London. That was 40 years ago. How times change Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #18 February 16, 2011 Quote you know which 6 cantons voted for more gun control. I'll take a wild guess and say Vaud,Valais,Neuchâtel,Geneva,Jura and Ticino here's a map you were almost right, take out ticino, include zurich.. probably has to do with the fact that a girl was shot at a busstation in zurichby some idiot, just for fun, long distance, couple years back.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #19 February 17, 2011 Quote how would you do that!? stuff the lump of butter down the throat to choke. Then the butter melts and voilà a new case for NCIS scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #20 February 17, 2011 Quote Quote you know which 6 cantons voted for more gun control. I'll take a wild guess and say Vaud,Valais,Neuchâtel,Geneva,Jura and Ticino here's a map you were almost right, take out ticino, include zurich.. also take out Valais and include BAsel-Town... Us Valaisans are hunters, more right wing and extremo-catholics. Them City-people need more regulations, because they can't self-regulate themselves.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #21 February 17, 2011 there are much more crimes and suicides with blades of various sorts. Should we vote about giving back our pocket knives and combat knives ?? And my officer dagger ? www.army-discount.com/Images/Coutellerie/Dague/Dague_Mod43.html scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 651 #22 February 17, 2011 Quote there are much more crimes and suicides with blades of various sorts. Should we vote about giving back our pocket knives and combat knives ?? And my officer dagger ? www.army-discount.com/Images/Coutellerie/Dague/Dague_Mod43.html John is correct on his assertion that it is the culture and not the weapon that is the problem. Where people feel that violence is an acceptable solution if you take away guns they will use knives, if you take away knives they will use screwdrivers etc. I am not sure how you fix the root of the problems that exist in modern society, but one consideration is that in general a gun is possibly the easiest way to kill someone. That does need to be taken into consideration as part of the decision making process. Personally I am an advocate of licensing in the form that if a person is trained in the use they are then able to use and own a weapon. No different to a drivers license in principle with the same constraints that if you abuse your weapon you lose it. In the same way that drivers licenses do not stop unlicensed drivers driving it would not criminals, but it does give law enforcement a few more tools.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #23 February 17, 2011 Quote there are much more crimes and suicides with blades of various sorts. Should we vote about giving back our pocket knives and combat knives ?? And my officer dagger ? www.army-discount.com/Images/Coutellerie/Dague/Dague_Mod43.html What I don't get is that military arms in the household has been a Swiss custom since at least WW2 (and probably further back than I am aware), but the suicide-by-firearm situation is fairly recent. Is this correct, or has there been more of it than we have previously been aware of which has only come to light recently? mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #24 February 17, 2011 only guy i ever knew that blew his head off with his army rifle is at least 20yrs back. dont really think that's "fairly recent"..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #25 February 18, 2011 Swiss tradition for the military arms apparently dates from 1874 or there around. It is a sign of confidence and trust from the State towards the citizen-soldiers. The "suicide with a military weapon" phenomenon would be more of a pretty recent thing. Pretty difficult to find correct information, as many are made-up statistics. Even the so called 18 cases of 2009 are difficult to believe, as with the trash newspapers we have (reporting almost every roadkill, car scratch etc...) we would know it if there was more than a monthly suicide by military weapon. I do nevertheless support and believe that the individuals who do not wish to keep their weapon at home should be able to store it at their local arsenal.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
