God this infruiates me....

[fossg 0]

More veterans may have been exposed to serious infections such as HIV and hepatitis at VA facilities because of inadequately cleaned equipment.

This was the headline that greeted me this morning when I perused the news...

[freethefly 6]

This originally came out a couple of years ago.
I was a patient at the John Cochran V.A. hospital (the hospital the op is referencing) in St. Louis for 8 years. I would testify to how bad JCVA is. For one thing, it is located on Grand Ave. in the midst of gang territory. Crack dealers will approach you at the stop lights near JCVA. A large number of people who work at JCVA are black. I have no problem at all with that. My problem and the same for others who use the V.A. in St. Louis is that if you are white, the people who are suppose to pull your files and let the doctor know you are there will push you aside in favor of letting other black people go before you. I cannot tell you how many times that I had sat in the waiting room until the end of the day only to be told to come back on another day. I have reported several V.A. employees for incompetence. The people they employ do not get the grade as they seem to care very little about the patients. The hospital goes, it always seemed to be dirty.
JCVA seemed to have the most incompetent people available, so it is no wonder that guidelines were not followed.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Gravitymaster 0]

And this is the Government you want to provide your healthcare on a much larger scale?

[freethefly 6]

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And this is the Government you want to provide your healthcare on a much larger scale?

If you had actually read any of the HC proposal you would know that the government would not be providing the healthcare, only setting regulations for the provision of healthcare. Changes are long overdue.
The problems at JCVA has been going on for years. If you want to see a real mess, take a look at the Jefferson Barracks VA in St. Louis. It's disgusting.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Quote

And this is the Government you want to provide your healthcare on a much larger scale?

If you had actually read any of the HC proposal you would know that the government would not be providing the healthcare, only setting regulations for the provision of healthcare. Changes are long overdue.
The problems at JCVA has been going on for years. If you want to see a real mess, take a look at the Jefferson Barracks VA in St. Louis. It's disgusting.

Yes, I'm sure it will be so much different than the V.A.

[wmw999 2,589]

There is no basic health care option that will be excellent. There is no way that everyone will get access to excellent health care. It's easy to say that they can if they just pay for it, but that's kind of like saying that getting a new Cadillac is easy if you just pay for it.

Right now we're delivering health care to people who can't afford to pay for it in just about the least possible efficient way. Do you really think that's optimal? What, besides "work harder" (to those folks, that is), do you suggest?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kelpdiver 2]

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And this is the Government you want to provide your healthcare on a much larger scale?

If you had actually read any of the HC proposal you would know that the government would not be providing the healthcare, only setting regulations for the provision of healthcare. Changes are long overdue.

It appears structured to fail, and to give support to the large number of proponents who want to eliminate insurance companies already.

Much like amtrack.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

There is no basic health care option that will be excellent. There is no way that everyone will get access to excellent health care. It's easy to say that they can if they just pay for it, but that's kind of like saying that getting a new Cadillac is easy if you just pay for it.

Right now we're delivering health care to people who can't afford to pay for it in just about the least possible efficient way. Do you really think that's optimal? What, besides "work harder" (to those folks, that is), do you suggest?

Wendy P.

Then why not just put those who can't afford healthcare on a welfare-type program and be done with it instead of imposing a huge burden on those who don't want it?

[dmcoco84 5]

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And this is the Government you want to provide your healthcare on a much larger scale?

Its 10x worse for Native Americans.

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

Right now we're delivering health care to people who can't afford to pay for it in just about the least possible efficient way. Do you really think that's optimal? What, besides "work harder" (to those folks, that is), do you suggest?

Wendy P.

Stop giving it to people who can't afford it.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Southern_Man 0]

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Quote

And this is the Government you want to provide your healthcare on a much larger scale?

If you had actually read any of the HC proposal you would know that the government would not be providing the healthcare, only setting regulations for the provision of healthcare.

The government couldn't even ensure that its regulations were being followed in a facility it owned. Why do you think they can do better elsewhere?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[dmcoco84 5]

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If you had actually read any of the HC proposal you would know that the government would not be providing the healthcare, only setting regulations for the provision of healthcare. Changes are long overdue.

Oh right? Is that the case?

Bush's Medicare Part D... Progressive Stepping Stone.

SCHIP - (Paid for by Obama and Boner's Smoking Habits) - Progressive Stepping Stone.

Obamacare - Progressive Stepping Stone.


And had they gotten a public option: Progressive Stepping Stone... to Single Payer.


Public option is Trojan horse for Single Payer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sTfZJBYo1I

Starter Home = Stepping Stone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfB3Bne2VQ



Obama is the reincarnation of Woodrow Wilson... using FDR tactics... what did FDR want?

The Second Bill of Rights: (In His Own Words)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EZ5bx9AyI4

Employment Based Health insurance... Progressive Stepping Stone... Started by FDR.

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

Do you really think that's optimal?

Nope... and I've worked in an ER for over 4 years. So I know first hand!

Obamacare is not the solution. And the 10 pages worth of mandates that are being used to justify a 2k+ page bill, could all be passed in an afternoon... in single initiatives.

This increase of bureaucracy and additional agencies... is like dropping napalm on a forest fire.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Do you really think that's optimal?

Nope... and I've worked in an ER for over 4 years. So I know first hand!

Obamacare is not the solution. And the 10 pages worth of mandates that are being used to justify a 2k+ page bill, could all be passed in an afternoon... in single initiatives.

This increase of bureaucracy and additional agencies... is like dropping napalm on a forest fire.

But since we are here, perhaps they would understand it more if you said, Av Gas, Jet-A, or jp-5

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,120]

>And the 10 pages worth of mandates that are being used to justify a 2k+
>page bill, could all be passed in an afternoon... in single initiatives.

Go for it! Come up with a better solution; I'd support it.

>This increase of bureaucracy and additional agencies... is like dropping
>napalm on a forest fire.

And you have better napalm? Sounds good to me.

[dmcoco84 5]

Dude, Paul Ryan already put it all on the table, both behind closed doors, and during the BS talks we saw on TV... Obama flipped him the bird. What we saw was an act, because they had already argued it all behind closed doors. And Pelosi and Reed already knew what they were going to do.

Don't play that crap with me.

Progressives don't want common sense, free market, constitutional solutions.

What Ryan voiced, is the antithesis of Progressive ideas and desires... it doesn't give them control and power. And he has a great plan for Social Security too.

But if you really need me to spell it out for you, I can. But first, this evening I'm going to answer the first question I asked you and Quade.

What is the definition of... Small and Limited Government.

Quote

And you have better napalm? Sounds good to me.

Noooooooooo... I've got Smokey the Bear. He's a Founder

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

>And the 10 pages worth of mandates that are being used to justify a 2k+
>page bill, could all be passed in an afternoon... in single initiatives.

Go for it! Come up with a better solution; I'd support it.

>This increase of bureaucracy and additional agencies... is like dropping
>napalm on a forest fire.

And you have better napalm? Sounds good to me.

Hmmm - sounds suspiciously like a "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" question.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>And the 10 pages worth of mandates that are being used to justify a 2k+
>page bill, could all be passed in an afternoon... in single initiatives.

Go for it! Come up with a better solution; I'd support it.

>This increase of bureaucracy and additional agencies... is like dropping
>napalm on a forest fire.

And you have better napalm? Sounds good to me.

Put them on welfare and give them free governmet paid healthcare and a V.A. hospital and don't force govt. run healthcare down the rest of our throats. I would think you lefties would be all for a new government program but I guess this solution isn't grand enough.

[wmw999 2,589]

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don't force govt. run healthcare down the rest of our throats

Money will always be able to buy better health care. It can in the UK and other places with socialized medicine.

What on earth makes you think it will be impossible to buy private health care in the US if there is a national health plan?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[airdvr 210]

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Quote

don't force govt. run healthcare down the rest of our throats

Money will always be able to buy better health care. It can in the UK and other places with socialized medicine.

What on earth makes you think it will be impossible to buy private health care in the US if there is a national health plan?

Wendy P.

Because there won't be anyone left to buy it from.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

don't force govt. run healthcare down the rest of our throats

Money will always be able to buy better health care. It can in the UK and other places with socialized medicine.

What on earth makes you think it will be impossible to buy private health care in the US if there is a national health plan?

Wendy P.

Why are you so worried that someone with money might get better healthcare than you?

You still haven't answered my question.

Why doesn't the government simply create a welfare program to cover those who can't afford healthcare? They could screen those who claim they can't afford it much like they do for other social services. If someone truely can't afford it, then my tax dollars pay for them. I have no problem with that as long as the govt. cuts something else to pay for it. What's wrong with my plan?

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

You still haven't answered my question.

Why doesn't the government simply create a welfare program to cover those who can't afford healthcare? They could screen those who claim they can't afford it much like they do for other social services. If someone truely can't afford it, then my tax dollars pay for them. I have no problem with that as long as the govt. cuts something else to pay for it. What's wrong with my plan?

What do you think Medicaid is?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[wmw999 2,589]

I'm not the least bit worried that someone will get better healthcare than I will. I'm sure that can happen.

We have a plan for indigent people, it's called Medicaid. It's one of those entitlements that people want to get rid of.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

I'm not the least bit worried that someone will get better healthcare than I will. I'm sure that can happen.

We have a plan for indigent people, it's called Medicaid. It's one of those entitlements that people want to get rid of.

Wendy P.

Those that want to get rid of Medicaid don't want to replace it with Obamacare. You still haven't answered my question.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Quote

Quote

And this is the Government you want to provide your healthcare on a much larger scale?

If you had actually read any of the HC proposal you would know that the government would not be providing the healthcare, only setting regulations for the provision of healthcare. Changes are long overdue.
The problems at JCVA has been going on for years. If you want to see a real mess, take a look at the Jefferson Barracks VA in St. Louis. It's disgusting.

Yes, I'm sure it will be so much different than the V.A.

Would you rather see a complete deregulation of the insurance market? Guidelines are needed and people in place to make sure that the guide is followed. People who are not doing their job waste money. Such is the case at the JCVA. The people who dropped the ball will end up costing the taxpayers thousands of dollars. Dollars that would had been put to a better use.
The HC bill is far from perfect, but there are provisions in place to remove what does not work. Over time the bill could be tweaked so that it works for everyone. What we have now is a mess. This bill is, at least, a start towards something good. Would you rather prefer the status quo?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young