airdvr 210 #1 February 11, 2011 Nicolas Sarkozy joins David Cameron and Angela Merkel view that multiculturalism has failed QuoteFrench president Nicolas Sarkozy has joined David Cameron in condemning multiculturalism as a failure. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355961/Nicolas-Sarkozy-joins-David-Cameron-Angela-Merkel-view-multiculturalism-failed.html#ixzz1DfCowy5Y They ought to know...Question is...when will the U.S. figure it out?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 February 11, 2011 Quote They ought to know...Question is...when will the U.S. figure it out? to know what ? That Alabamians and Wisconsinians are different ? scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #3 February 11, 2011 Quote Quote They ought to know...Question is...when will the U.S. figure it out? to know what ? That Alabamians and Wisconsinians are different ? I'm thinking mroe like the Juan's and Pedro's of the world. And of course the Muhammed's and Fatima's too.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,593 #4 February 11, 2011 Juan and Pedro have been in the southwestern US longer than Bubba and George. Which of them should get out? Of course, Barking Dog and Brave as a Lion were there even before that. Multiculturalism is not an either/or kind of thing. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #5 February 11, 2011 It's like Californians - they leave for other states, then try to make their new home just like what they just left. Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #6 February 11, 2011 Quote Quote Juan and Pedro have been in the southwestern US longer than Bubba and George. Which of them should get out? Do they have a green card? Quote Of course, Barking Dog and Brave as a Lion were there even before that. Multiculturalism is not an either/or kind of thing. Wendy P. So when 3 leaders of powerful countries in Europe state that it doesn't work we should just ignore them...check.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,593 #7 February 11, 2011 When 3 powerful leaders of European countries don't think Iraq is the best idea since sliced bread, that's their problem and we should do whatever is best for them. But when they agree with us it's good advice. I'll stand by my statement that multiculturalism isn't an either/or kind of thing. Green cards are good, and they have nothing to do with multiculturalism. Whether we "allow" muezzins to call to prayers, whether we "allow" stores to have non-English-speaking employees, whether we "allow" public school teachers (or students) to cover their hair, those are signs of multiculturalism. I'm all for a society comprising people who understand each other well enough not to be offended by things not meant to offend, and who can let each other be. That's different from molding themselves into something that makes me comfortable. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #8 February 11, 2011 Quote When 3 powerful leaders of European countries don't think Iraq is the best idea since sliced bread, that's their problem and we should do whatever is best for them C'mon Wendy...you can do better than that. How quickly you forget that Germany and France were in business with Iraq even more than we were. Quote I'm all for a society comprising people who understand each other well enough not to be offended by things not meant to offend, and who can let each other be. That's different from molding themselves into something that makes me comfortable. I'd like to teach the world to sing....in perfect harmony.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #9 February 11, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Juan and Pedro have been in the southwestern US longer than Bubba and George. Which of them should get out? Do they have a green card? Quote Of course, Barking Dog and Brave as a Lion were there even before that. Multiculturalism is not an either/or kind of thing. Wendy P. So when 3 leaders of powerful countries in Europe state that it doesn't work we should just ignore them...check. Credibility can often be discerned from prior history. Tell me about the history of multiculturalism in, say, Germany over the past 100 years. Ask the Indians about how well British attitudes toward multiculturalism worked out for Indians when India was a British colony. Ask the Algerians or Vietnamese the same question re: France. So Britain, France and Germany want to denounce multiculturalism? As an American, who appreciates the history and diversity of America (and knows basic history), I could not possibly fucking care less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,593 #10 February 11, 2011 So what's your solution? Culture police? Who decides what's acceptable? There was a whole 'nother paragraph in there of things that might or might not be allowable under the guise of forcing the pot to melt. Those are the tough questions. It's easy to say we should all be more alike. It's a lot harder to describe the mechanism to make that happen, especially if we have freedom of association, the press, and religion. And I mistyped my first statement; what I was trying to say was that if we ignore other countries when it suits us and say they are irrelevant, agreement doesn't suddenly make them relevant. What I actually typed doesn't come particularly close to saying that, and I apologize. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #11 February 11, 2011 Unless you're implying there is no India or Vietnam today I think your argument fails. Those 2 countries are a fine example of what happens when you don't allow another culture to overtake your own. As for Germany...you got me on that one.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #12 February 11, 2011 >So when 3 leaders of powerful countries in Europe state that it doesn't >work we should just ignore them...check. So when 3 leaders of other countries tell us what to do we should roll over and give up our ideals? We should ignore the influence of other societies because other societies told us we should? This is a dumb argument. We _are_ a multicultural society. We can't go back. (Unless you want to return to living in teepees, that is.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #13 February 11, 2011 I have no clue who decides. Quit asking tough questions like that Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #14 February 11, 2011 Quote>So when 3 leaders of powerful countries in Europe state that it doesn't >work we should just ignore them...check. So when 3 leaders of other countries tell us what to do we should roll over and give up our ideals? We should ignore the influence of other societies because other societies told us we should? This is a dumb argument. We _are_ a multicultural society. We can't go back. (Unless you want to return to living in teepees, that is.) We used to be a multi-cultural society. Not anymore. Now we are a seperatist society. A country vainly trying to keep every culture happy. It fosters resentment, racism, and hatred.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 381 #15 February 11, 2011 QuoteIt fosters resentment, racism, and hatred. Speak for yourself! Oh wait, you just did. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #16 February 11, 2011 QuoteQuoteIt fosters resentment, racism, and hatred. Speak for yourself! Oh wait, you just did. Don Anything useful to add?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #17 February 11, 2011 >We used to be a multi-cultural society. Not anymore. Now we are a seperatist society. Yep, it's tough. Go have a hamburger or some nachos, maybe some french fries. Wash it down with a margarita, a Budweiser or a Bloody Mary - and explain to the denizens of the local Irish pub how we have separated from all those other cultures. >A country vainly trying to keep every culture happy. Here in the US we let each culture keep themselves happy - which is the way it should be. >It fosters resentment, racism, and hatred. Only in bigots. Most people are fine with the Irish pub on the corner, or the taco shop, or the Chinese drumming exhibition, or the Cinco de Mayo parade. They don't even care if they occasionally hear "oprima numero dos para espanol." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #18 February 11, 2011 QuoteNicolas Sarkozy joins David Cameron and Angela Merkel view that multiculturalism has failed QuoteFrench president Nicolas Sarkozy has joined David Cameron in condemning multiculturalism as a failure. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355961/Nicolas-Sarkozy-joins-David-Cameron-Angela-Merkel-view-multiculturalism-failed.html#ixzz1DfCowy5Y They ought to know...Question is...when will the U.S. figure it out? Esay solution then. Just go back to tribal society.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #19 February 11, 2011 OK...because we can eat a taco or grab a gyro that makes us multicultural? Please. Peel back the layers and look a bit deeper than restaurants. It's there that you might recognize the problem.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #20 February 11, 2011 QuoteOK...because we can eat a taco or grab a gyro that makes us multicultural? Please. Peel back the layers and look a bit deeper than restaurants. It's there that you might recognize the problem. Please do not interject logic into your responses, it will not be tolerated.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,593 #21 February 11, 2011 I'll ask the same question of you that I asked of Airdvr -- how do you eliminate multiculturalism? Culture police? Once you think of ways, figure out if they're consistent with freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and freedom of association. Those are all in the Constitution. They apply to everyone who hasn't had them specifically removed (e.g. people on parole don't always have freedom of association), not just Christians, blonds, people who speak English, Eurocentric, or anything else. The post above was probably better written. But just whining that something's broke isn't as effective as trying to figure out how to fix it. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #22 February 11, 2011 One simple way that still sounds very trite but it does carry some weight...English as the official language. I'm figuring about 30 seconds before someone chimes in on how that would be bigoted or racist.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #23 February 11, 2011 QuoteI'll ask the same question of you that I asked of Airdvr -- how do you eliminate multiculturalism? Culture police? Once you think of ways, figure out if they're consistent with freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and freedom of association. Those are all in the Constitution. They apply to everyone who hasn't had them specifically removed (e.g. people on parole don't always have freedom of association), not just Christians, blonds, people who speak English, Eurocentric, or anything else. The post above was probably better written. But just whining that something's broke isn't as effective as trying to figure out how to fix it. Wendy P. Tribal communities do not have constitutions per-se, so that is a null point. Complete and utter segregation. THAT IS THE NEW WAY!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #24 February 11, 2011 Actually regardless of what Dave thinks the UK is actually working pretty well and is multicultural. I'd like to see a stronger British identity but there is no such thing, never has been. At best there is a Scottish, Welsh, Irish culture and the English have always been a blend of cultures, Danes, Viking, Saxon, Roman, Norman to name but a few.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #25 February 11, 2011 Quote Actually regardless of what Dave thinks the UK is actually working pretty well and is multicultural. I'd like to see a stronger British identity but there is no such thing, never has been. At best there is a Scottish, Welsh, Irish culture and the English have always been a blend of cultures, Danes, Viking, Saxon, Roman, Norman to name but a few. Man, if you could only get rid of those pesky Irish . . . things would be SO Much better.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
