Belgian_Draft 0 #476 February 22, 2011 QuoteQuotePerhaps we should also let access to our undercobver agents working to infiltrate terrorist organizations and the Taliban. I'm sure the Taliban, and the like, would be really thankful. 10+ years in and what....very little. May as well out them for all the good that's been done. As if the Taliban has never known any of them until public disclosure. Taliban Security: OK, Ahmed...you watch Wikileaks and let us know when they tell us who the spy is. You get 70 virgins up front, 2 more when you die. Unless you know what information has come from those sources and what that information was used for, you have no idea as to whether it has done any good.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #477 February 22, 2011 QuoteWhat I said was the country has a gun problem And so do country's with rules that you suggest. Following down a path that has been proven not to work is silly. QuoteAnd I also said, if there were no guns, there could be no gun crime - that is an ideology (and a fact). A bumper sticker slogan used by people who refuse to see one inch past the slogan to the truth. Yes, if you could wave a magic wand and remove ALL firearms there would be no firearm violence. But it would be foolish to think that would remove violence... All you would do is allow the weak to be controlled by the strong, the old controlled by the young. Quote And I am not required to answer your questions, so ask away. Translation: I can't without looking silly, so I will not bother. QuoteBTW, the voting system is broken, the 9 judges appear to be doing a pretty good job, and 'bang' whatever, should be a last resort. And I agree... Last resort. But that does not mean it should be removed. Quotelooks good on paper, and then there is the real world..... Worked in 1776, exercised in 1861. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 892 #478 February 22, 2011 We haven't lost any more skyscrapers or 3000 people in one strike, appears something might be working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #479 February 22, 2011 Quote Worked in 1776, exercised in 1861. Both of those achieved a horrendous death toll on those living at the time.1776 there were 2.5 million Americans 1860 there were 31.5 million Americans Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #480 February 22, 2011 QuoteI have people here that stood up at City Council meetings in Zephyrhills and bellowed rather loudly "Martin Luther King Jr DIRECTLY caused the deaths of American soldiers". This was about 5-6 years ago. Yes there are people out there with pretty fucked up views. Amazing huh? That guy has the same freedom of speech rights as Julian Assange.... 1. Assange is not an American citizen. So I doubt he has the *same* rights. 2. Just because people say stupid things does not make their opinion true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #481 February 22, 2011 QuoteBoth of those achieved a horrendous death toll on those living at the time. So??? You think they didn't have the right to fight for what they believe in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #482 February 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteBoth of those achieved a horrendous death toll on those living at the time. So??? You think they didn't have the right to fight for what they believe in? How many millions of Americans would need to be BANGED to refresh the tree of freedom with their blood the next time around. It cost 1 in 20 American lives to "preserve" the Union. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #483 February 22, 2011 Quote 1. Assange is not an American citizen. So I doubt he has the *same* rights. Assange may not have all the same rights. It is also true that he may not be subject to some of the same laws. There are complicated issues of jurisdiction invovlved."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #484 February 22, 2011 QuoteHow many millions of Americans would need to be BANGED to refresh the tree of freedom with their blood the next time around. It cost 1 in 20 American lives to "preserve" the Union. Could you answer the question I asked? Do you think they didn't have the right to fight for what they believe in? To answer your question.... I don't know. But I think an individual has the right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #485 February 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteHow many millions of Americans would need to be BANGED to refresh the tree of freedom with their blood the next time around. It cost 1 in 20 American lives to "preserve" the Union. Could you answer the question I asked? Do you think they didn't have the right to fight for what they believe in? To answer your question.... I don't know. But I think an individual has the right. Does the rights of one individual trump the rights of many many other individuals?? Does that right to fight for what the individual believes in extend to allow them to remove the rights of many others.. by the most heinous of means?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #486 February 22, 2011 QuoteWe haven't lost any more skyscrapers or 3000 people in one strike, appears something might be working. That's right. And we have uncovered several plots. It must be our agreement of transparency with the Taliban.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #487 February 22, 2011 QuoteWe haven't lost any more skyscrapers or 3000 people in one strike, appears something might be working. So...you attribute that to chasing the Taliban? Sweet.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #488 February 22, 2011 QuoteUnless you know what information has come from those sources and what that information was used for, you have no idea as to whether it has done any good. Here's some more rope: Since you've proven yourself to be so slow on the uptake, I'll repeat one more time... "10+ years in and what....very little. May as well out them for all the good that's been done. As if the Taliban has never known any of them until public disclosure. " This time don't let the *whoosh* get you. Your boogeyman is waiting.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #489 February 22, 2011 QuoteThat's right. And we have uncovered several plots. Prove that you know more than just spouting crap. List some.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #490 February 23, 2011 Quote Quote Unless you know what information has come from those sources and what that information was used for, you have no idea as to whether it has done any good. Here's some more rope: Since you've proven yourself to be so slow on the uptake, I'll repeat one more time... "10+ years in and what....very little. May as well out them for all the good that's been done. As if the Taliban has never known any of them until public disclosure. " This time don't let the *whoosh* get you. Your boogeyman is waiting. So you are claiming to know everything that has been brought to our military's attention by informants? I guess you already have your transparency. Congratulations. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 892 #491 February 23, 2011 Where the hell did that come from??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #492 February 23, 2011 Quote So you are claiming to know everything that has been brought to our military's attention by informants? I guess you already have your transparency. Congratulations. Once again...coming up snake eyes on the mind reading. You'll never learn. *shaking head*My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #493 February 23, 2011 QuoteWhere the hell did that come from??? Left field? Just like the "we don't need to know what our goobermint is doing behind our back" idea?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #494 February 23, 2011 Quote Quote So you are claiming to know everything that has been brought to our military's attention by informants? I guess you already have your transparency. Congratulations. Once again...coming up snake eyes on the mind reading. You'll never learn. *shaking head* Let me get this straight. You claim to know all information that has come from our informants. You claim nothing good has come from it. Yet you say it is I who has a problem. Can't argue with that logoc. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #495 February 23, 2011 what he claimed was "Very little" came from it. And I agree, 1 trillion dollars spent on a war to prevent 9/11 from ever happening again and we have obtained achieved VERY LITTLE. I was in Reno the other day, the alert level was still 'orange' after 10 years. diminishing returns. very little achieved. Information leaked out that makes no difference one way or the other. The country is broke, we are cutting everything except the military, which would actually save us money. We want Assange 'hung' and we want to see the President's birth certificate, and a dumb-ass reality-show soccer mom is running for president - what a fucked up place for priorities...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 616 #496 February 23, 2011 Quote Quote Quote So you are claiming to know everything that has been brought to our military's attention by informants? I guess you already have your transparency. Congratulations. Once again...coming up snake eyes on the mind reading. You'll never learn. *shaking head* Let me get this straight. You claim to know all information that has come from our informants. You claim nothing good has come from it. Yet you say it is I who has a problem. Can't argue with that logoc. With regards to the Taliban/Afganistan I think that it is a fair assessment that whatever informants there are not being very effective. The western world has not even been able to find a single man (Bin Laden) in 10 years, that is a poor track record by anyones standard. Added to this the Taliban are certainly giving us a good run for our money. I don't think it is to much of a stretch to point a significant portion of the blame/weakness at intelligence gathering. It is certainly not a case of lack of military might. By extension if the informants are failing to deliver strategic information (based on performance that is available in the public domain) it is quite likely that the Taliban already know who informants are or at the very least they are not high threat individuals. I don't know if that is where Popsjumper is coming from, but it makes sense to me. As a sidenote -where one side has much greater military capability, the other tends to resort to guerilla or terrorist tactics (asymmetric warfare). I think Wikileaks is similar. We in the modern world are ruled by an elite class and frankly it doesn't really make that much difference if you are in Idaho or Iran. Wikileaks is "we the people" fighting back and exposing the elite for what they are (frauds and liars).Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #497 February 23, 2011 Exactly, Nigel and TK.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #498 February 23, 2011 Quote [Let me get this straight. You claim to know all information that has come from our informants. You claim nothing good has come from it. Yet you say it is I who has a problem. Can't argue with that logoc. Thanks for your continued verification of my assessment of your understanding....none. *whoosh*My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #499 February 23, 2011 QuoteDoes the rights of one individual trump the rights of many many other individuals?? Could you answer the question I asked? Quote Does that right to fight for what the individual believes in extend to allow them to remove the rights of many others.. by the most heinous of means?? Do you think that Washington had that right? Do you think the South had the right? Please, I asked a simple question and you said that as long as we stayed polite you would try and answer simple questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #500 February 23, 2011 QuoteWe want Assange 'hung' No we want him to stand and face his actions. Quotewe want to see the President's birth certificate I fail to see the problem with seeing the President's BC when questions have been brought up about the legality of it. What HARM could it be??? You claim to want transparency... Why the sudden issue with transparency when it comes to the BC issue? Quotea dumb-ass reality-show soccer mom is running for president She has as much a right to run ans anyone else... Say a community organizer with ties to black supremacists???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
