popsjumper 2 #451 February 20, 2011 QuoteThey want 100% transparency. They want access to all the government's paperwork from the lowliest office memo to the battle plans for any operations anywhere to the launch codes for the nations weapon systems. 100% transparency. That is where they draw the line between secret and not secret . . . there is none/should not bae any, in their mind. Dang, Turtle! You're letting BD lead you down that rabbit hole of assumptions?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #452 February 20, 2011 Want a flashlight?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #453 February 20, 2011 I did answer the question - There is NO line. Not only that, it is not relevant to the thread - it is just some lame argument that you have that has no purpose nor effect on the outcome Read my post Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #454 February 20, 2011 QuoteI did answer the question - There is NO line. Not only that, it is not relevant to the thread - it is just some lame argument that you have that has no purpose nor effect on the outcome Read my post So what exactly would you do with thos e launch codes? See Andy . . . SEE . . . I wasn't wrong . . . There is no line - 100%!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #455 February 20, 2011 In my world, there would be no launch codes. But for the sake of your silly argument, the launch codes could be sold on fucking Ebay as long as someone in charge had the keys to the silos...... If Wikileaks published the launch codes, I expect at the push of a button or two, they would be changed. I expect they are changed regularly for that very reason - perhaps the guys in charge of the silos already thought of that. I expect there are FAR MORE STEPS to launching a nuke that just having access to the launch codes. etc etc or do I need to go on? What a ridiculous example - you should really try harder. That's like telling me the combination lock for the safe at my bank - it means absolutely nothing, since there are MANY other security barriers in place to prevent me from getting access to it or doing any harm. wow - talk about simple.....! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #456 February 20, 2011 QuoteIn my world, there would be no launch codes. So your world is imaginary. that answers a LOT of questions. Is there a magic mirror you look through? last I checked there are security measures in all banks. Yet somehow they still manage to get robbed. Or does that not happen in your world?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #457 February 20, 2011 Um , banks do not get robbed due to a lack of security or due to someone having the combos. They get robbed because people walk in the front door with a gun And I did answer your question and countered your point What was your point again? I cannot remember.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #458 February 20, 2011 QuoteUm , banks do not get robbed due to a lack of security or due to someone having the combos. They get robbed because people walk in the front door with a gun And I did answer your question and countered your point What was your point again? I cannot remember.... My point is that 100% transparency is ascenine. Not even a One World Government would be even remotely close to your expectatins of transparency. My other point is that you must live in an imaginary world.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #459 February 20, 2011 so then how much transparency is OK with you? And taking then that percentage or whatever your scale is - how is it that Assange somehow violated YOUR rules of transparency? 100% of anything might be ascenine, but it is not a reason to not strive for it. We think we are winning a war in Afghanistan, and in Iraq, and a war on drugs etc. WINNING, not striving for 60% or whatever, we are planning to WIN (that is 100%) we keep trying and trying and trying even though we are failing and failing and failing. talk about ascenine. If Assange does some 'damage' and that brings all this to an end - then HE'S MY FUCKING HERO!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #460 February 20, 2011 Quoteso then how much transparency is OK with you? And taking then that percentage or whatever your scale is - how is it that Assange somehow violated YOUR rules of transparency? 100% of anything might be ascenine, but it is not a reason to not strive for it. We think we are winning a war in Afghanistan, and in Iraq, and a war on drugs etc. WINNING, not striving for 60% or whatever, we are planning to WIN (that is 100%) we keep trying and trying and trying even though we are failing and failing and failing. talk about ascenine. If Assange does some 'damage' and that brings all this to an end - then HE'S MY FUCKING HERO!! The amount of transparancy that is needed is exactly the amopunt that lets us succeed as a country. Assange and his informants commited espionage. If a spy agaist this country is your hero - more power to you.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #461 February 20, 2011 QuoteI did answer the question - There is NO line. Not only that, it is not relevant to the thread - it is just some lame argument that you have that has no purpose nor effect on the outcome Read my post You say no line. Ok, fine. At least you have taken a stand. You want everything out in the open. Ok, fine. I disagree with that view on the grounds that is is impossible for any country to function without the ability to keep some things discreet and/or secret.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #462 February 20, 2011 Quote Assange and his informants commited espionage. We've covered this extensively. Bradley Manning likely committed espionage. In order for Assange to have committed Espionage he would have had to collaborated with Manning prior to Manning taking the documents. Although it is possible that he id there is absolutely no evidence at all that suggests it."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #463 February 20, 2011 QuoteAlthough it is possible that he id there is absolutely no evidence at all that suggests it No evidence that has been made public, that is.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #464 February 20, 2011 Quote Quote Although it is possible that he id there is absolutely no evidence at all that suggests it No evidence that has been made public, that is. ...and won't be if you had your way. You're checking for boogeymen under your bed every night? It's not paranoia if there actually are little men living in your head speaking to you.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #465 February 21, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Although it is possible that he id there is absolutely no evidence at all that suggests it No evidence that has been made public, that is. ...and won't be if you had your way. You're checking for boogeymen under your bed every night? It's not paranoia if there actually are little men living in your head speaking to you. It is quite common in a criminal investigation for the authorities to keep some evidence under wraps until an arrest is made, especially if releasing that evidence could tip off present and/or future suspects. Paranoid? Me? You're the one that's so scared shitless of information being kept secret you want everything made public. Just keep on diggin' that hole.....HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #466 February 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteAlthough it is possible that he id there is absolutely no evidence at all that suggests it No evidence that has been made public, that is. There is no evidence that Southern Man and Belgian Draft were not co-conspirators with Manning and Assange either."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #467 February 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteAlthough it is possible that he id there is absolutely no evidence at all that suggests it No evidence that has been made public, that is. There is no evidence that Southern Man and Belgian Draft were not co-conspirators with Manning and Assange either. True. But there is no reason to suspect as much either.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #468 February 21, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Although it is possible that he id there is absolutely no evidence at all that suggests it No evidence that has been made public, that is. There is no evidence that Southern Man and Belgian Draft were not co-conspirators with Manning and Assange either. True. But there is no reason to suspect as much either. Wrong. There is reason to suspect that you are the only one suspiciously checking under his bed every night. Were you one of the ones outed by Wikileaks? Oh...btw..nice job diverting from "evidence" to "suspicion". Quote Just keep on diggin' that hole..... No point in digging anymore. You're already in it waaaaay over your head...so far you can't hear the *whoosh* anymore.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #469 February 21, 2011 Quote So what exactly would you do with thos e launch codes? If our launch codes are static, yeah, I want that released. That would force the military to fix a stupid vulnerability. To access my office's VPN, I use a two part passcode. One is static, known to be. The other changes every 60 seconds, is displayed by an RSA token. So nothing gets sold on Ebay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #470 February 21, 2011 QuoteQuote So what exactly would you do with thos e launch codes? If our launch codes are static, yeah, I want that released. That would force the military to fix a stupid vulnerability. To access my office's VPN, I use a two part passcode. One is static, known to be. The other changes every 60 seconds, is displayed by an RSA token. So nothing gets sold on Ebay. Codes can be changed. Names of informants can't. How would you handle the list of informants in other countries who pass vital information to the US?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #471 February 21, 2011 suddenly Scooter Libby comes to mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #472 February 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote So what exactly would you do with thos e launch codes? If our launch codes are static, yeah, I want that released. That would force the military to fix a stupid vulnerability. To access my office's VPN, I use a two part passcode. One is static, known to be. The other changes every 60 seconds, is displayed by an RSA token. So nothing gets sold on Ebay. Codes can be changed. Names of informants can't. How would you handle the list of informants in other countries who pass vital information to the US? Perhaps we should also let access to our undercobver agents working to infiltrate terrorist organizations and the Taliban. I'm sure the Taliban, and the like, would be really thankful.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #473 February 22, 2011 QuoteQuote So what exactly would you do with thos e launch codes? If our launch codes are static, yeah, I want that released. That would force the military to fix a stupid vulnerability. To access my office's VPN, I use a two part passcode. One is static, known to be. The other changes every 60 seconds, is displayed by an RSA token. So nothing gets sold on Ebay. Right, but there's an algorithm and sync information associated with the RSA token that has to be kept secret or you could spoof it; you're just drawing the line in a different place. All security relies on obscurity when you get right down to it (i.e. when you get to a high enough network layer), and there will always be things that have to be kept secure, some private, some government owned. Therefore, there will always be some level of obscurity (secrecy) needed in the government. QED. Arguing about the technical means of the nation and what one diplomat said to another diplomat together as a general discussion of whether the government should be allowed to keep anything secret is an inexcusably stupid fucking exercise... I hope people on both sides of this discussion can take a step back and realize that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #474 February 22, 2011 Quote Arguing about the technical means of the nation and what one diplomat said to another diplomat together as a general discussion of whether the government should be allowed to keep anything secret is an inexcusably stupid fucking exercise... I hope people on both sides of this discussion can take a step back and realize that. Hey! You're not allowed to inject common sense into this argument. We're not discussing, we're arguing and no common sense is required for arguments. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #475 February 22, 2011 QuotePerhaps we should also let access to our undercobver agents working to infiltrate terrorist organizations and the Taliban. I'm sure the Taliban, and the like, would be really thankful. 10+ years in and what....very little. May as well out them for all the good that's been done. As if the Taliban has never known any of them until public disclosure. Taliban Security: OK, Ahmed...you watch Wikileaks and let us know when they tell us who the spy is. You get 70 virgins up front, 2 more when you die.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
