Is the modern population suffering from a lack of evolutionary pressure?

[SpeedRacer 1]

I don't have a solution to this problem, but it would seem to me that the soft and easy modern life has allowed types of people to survive that might not in a harsher environment.

For example, in emergency survival situations it has been noted that one important factor is simply having a strong WILL to survive. In the modern world I am seeing lots of people with what appears to be diminished survival drives.

Some people seem to lack motivation to thrive or prosper in life, and do not seem to even desire to be happy, healthy, or successful in anyway. Some young people are actually beginning to cut themselves with knives deliberately, just to get attention or whatever.

What do you all think?

Speed Racer
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[billvon 3,132]

>Is the modern population suffering from a lack of evolutionary pressure?

No, we still have plenty of evolutionary pressures on us - they are just acting in different ways. For example, intelligence sufficient to understand how birth control works is being selected against.

>Some people seem to lack motivation to thrive or prosper in life, and
>do not seem to even desire to be happy, healthy, or successful in anyway.

Evolution does not select for thriving, prospering or being happy; it just selects for reproductive ability. If the most successful reproducer is a miserable, unhappy wretch, then that miserable unhappy wretch is a success by evolutionary standards.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Technically you're correct, but in practice it would seem to me that the drive to thrive and prosper is an extension of the drive to survive.

You are making your best effort to make the best of the situation you're in.

Speed Racer
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[billvon 3,132]

>but in practice it would seem to me that the drive to thrive and prosper
>is an extension of the drive to survive.

I'd disagree there. Big cats are unarguably pretty highly evolved, and they sleep nearly all day; they only do the minimum they need to survive. To us they seem lazy, but in terms of evolution they are doing an excellent job of balancing energy output with food intake, and with time to raise cubs vs time to hunt.

There are a lot of variables that go into what makes something an evolutionary success, and any anthropomorphic qualities we ascribe to that success are coincidental at best (IMO.) Is the ichneumon wasp "cruel?" To us, yes; but evolutionarily it's pretty successful. Are cats lazy? To us, yes - but again, that's our intepretation of their success. Are parasites examples of "thriving and prospering?" To us no - but in their niche they've done well.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

There are a lot of variables that go into what makes something an evolutionary success, and any anthropomorphic qualities we ascribe to that success are coincidental at best (IMO.)

OK but we're just talking about humans here.

Speed Racer
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[kelpdiver 2]

Yes.

as a rule, education correlates to smaller birthrates.
as a rule, wealth correlates to smaller birthrates.

These are true for first world nations. The end result should be slow de-evolution.

The developing world is more murky. Farming regions have all the kids they can for labor, but in the more urban settings one must be able to afford the children.

[airdvr 210]

Excellent topic! I think it's more a lack of economic pressure than evolutionary. We've gotten used to living a life our grandparents could never have imagined. We're soft and we're selfish.

We're at war and yet daily life goes on. No impact at all really. We've grown accustomed to having our wars fought by others. 9/11 was a jolt and we woke up for a couple of years but now we're pleasantly back asleep. The war wasn't even in the top 5 of the issues that mattered in 2010.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Kennedy 0]

It's Idiocracy in action.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[jgoose71 0]

Quote

It's Idiocracy in action.

+1

You got to hyperlink to the the actual first few minutes of the movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSROlfR7WTo&playnext=1&list=PLD7AE5D4B0EB3FED0

Yes, this is the direction we are going. I have no doubt.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Lindsey 0]

I'm thinking the patient who showed up in the ER with burns after she ran through the burning pile of leaves *might* subject a little pressure to the evolutionary spectrum. Prob'ly not though, since we provide everyone with medical care these days...as we should.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[kallend 2,184]

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Technically you're correct, but in practice it would seem to me that the drive to thrive and prosper is an extension of the drive to survive.

You are making your best effort to make the best of the situation you're in.

"Technically" is redundant. He is simply correct. Evolution doesn't make value judgments like you do.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,132]

>OK but we're just talking about humans here.

Well, in human terms, a destitute welfare recipient who dies at age 35 of completely preventable causes - and who has six kids - is a lot more successful, in terms of evolution, than a hardworking, wealthy couple who starts their own business, but only has two kids.

So the evolutionary pressure still exists - but it now selects against the wealthy couple.

[GeorgiaDon 385]

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So the evolutionary pressure still exists - but it now selects against the wealthy couple.

Possibly. But, evolution can only select for/against genetically determined heritable traits, as by definition evolution is a change in gene (actually, allele) frequencies in a species over time. Intelligence involves many interacting genes, and even then genetics interacts in complex ways with environment to produce the final phenotype, so it is most likely that current selection against intelligence is very weak.

Also (and not to say anyone has suggested it here), the assumption that material success is evidence of superior genes (i.e. "better breeding") was long the foundation of racial prejudice. Jared Diamond's book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" provides a much better explanation for why some cultures became technologically advanced, and therefore wealthy, faster than others.

I think a more immediate problem is that more and more kids are growing up in an environment where their adult role models don't provide strong examples of the value of hard work, creativity, and intellectual curiosity. Ideas (sometimes called "memes" to indicate the analogy to genes) are also heritable, transmitted by learning rather than genetics, and some aspects of modern society can select for bad memes.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Butters 0]

Genes yield potential for intelligence, culture yields actual intelligence ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch