mnealtx 0 #26 January 27, 2011 QuoteGlobal warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. From your link: "Climate is defined as statistical weather information that describes the variation of weather at a given place for a specified interval." Seems like they don't agree with your summation of the counter arguments. QuoteA consequence of global warming is climate change, and a consequence of climate change is more extreme weather. The OP is in fact evidence of this. Would that be like those monster hurricanes that the Goreacle® precdicted and never materialized?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #27 January 27, 2011 Quote>Nox and Sox are byproducts of combusting coal. No. SOx is a byproduct of coal and 'dirty' hydrocarbon production (i.e. high sulfur diesel.) NOx is a byproduct of ANY combustion; it's the result of atmospheric nitrogen combining with oxygen at high temperatures. >Co2 is the fundamental result of combustion of hydrocarbons. (CH4 + 2 O2 >→ CO2 + 2 H2O + energy) Yes. >If you can find a way to remove CO2 from the equation without reducing the >energy produced to zero, I will nominate you for a Nobel prize. Burn hydrogen instead. Or burn methane, then make more methane via the Sabatier process (zero net carbon.) Write that letter! And where do we get the hydrogen? The number one method of hydrogen production is steam reforming; using natural gas. CO + H2O → CO2 + H2 - 40.4 kJ/mol There is that pesky CO2 again! There are other ways but they are so inefficient as to be nothing more that a laboratory curiosity But how about you hit me up with some "ifs" and "coulds" to set me strait? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,079 #28 January 27, 2011 >And where do we get the hydrogen? Thermal dissociation of water via high temperature gas reactors (i.e. nuclear reactors.) Reaction is simple: H20 -> H2 + O2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #29 January 27, 2011 Quote>And where do we get the hydrogen? Thermal dissociation of water via high temperature gas reactors (i.e. nuclear reactors.) Reaction is simple: H20 -> H2 + O2. You forgot to add the 2000 degrees of heat required for this reaction. Yes very simple indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #30 January 27, 2011 Quote>And where do we get the hydrogen? Thermal dissociation of water via high temperature gas reactors (i.e. nuclear reactors.) Reaction is simple: H20 -> H2 + O2. Just how many of these nuclear reactor hydrogen generation plants are in operation around the world? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,079 #31 January 27, 2011 >You forgot to add the 2000 degrees of heat required for this reaction. That's what "high temperature" means. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #32 January 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteGlobal warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. From your link: "Climate is defined as statistical weather information that describes the variation of weather at a given place for a specified interval." Seems like they don't agree with your summation of the counter arguments. Negative. Is that's your best shot?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #33 January 27, 2011 Quote Global warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. What exactly are you trying to say, John? Care to be more specific?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #34 January 27, 2011 Quote>You forgot to add the 2000 degrees of heat required for this reaction. That's what "high temperature" means. Again I ask: How many of these high temp nuclear reactor hydrogen plants are up and running in the whole world? 90? 50? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #35 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuote>You forgot to add the 2000 degrees of heat required for this reaction. That's what "high temperature" means. Again I ask: How many of these high temp nuclear reactor hydrogen plants are up and running in the whole world? 90? 50? So it appears that there are zero such hydrogen plants operating commercially in the world today. Yet again we run into the "real world" vs. the "wouldn’t it be nice if we could jump onto our unicorns and take the rainbow bridge to fairy land" world. Yes Bill IF we all did yada yada yada..... then the world would be just great. Then again if my aunt had a dick she would be my uncle. I live in the real world, with things like unintended consequences and opportunity costs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #36 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote>You forgot to add the 2000 degrees of heat required for this reaction. That's what "high temperature" means. Again I ask: How many of these high temp nuclear reactor hydrogen plants are up and running in the whole world? 90? 50? So it appears that there are zero such hydrogen plants operating commercially in the world today. Yet again we run into the "real world" vs. the "wouldn’t it be nice if we could jump onto our unicorns and take the rainbow bridge to fairy land" world. Yes Bill IF we all did yada yada yada..... then the world would be just great. Then again if my aunt had a dick she would be my uncle. I live in the real world, with things like unintended consequences and opportunity costs. I wonder why Edison bothered to invent light bulbs before there were any operating electrical power plants. Could it be planning for the future? I wonder why Daimler and Benz developed the ICE powered automobile before there were any gas stations. Could it be forward thinking?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #37 January 28, 2011 Yes you are quite correct. I do recall, when I toured the Daimler Benz museum; the guide talking about "winning the future" with government grants. And the light bulb would never have been developed if it were not for forward thinking officials and government subsidies. While you are at it why don’t you educate me on how many nuclear powered hydrogen plants there are in the world. I would guess that it is the same number as the amount of unicorn ranches. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #38 January 28, 2011 QuoteYes you are quite correct. . Yes, I am, and your lame effort to deflect the discussion is both transparent and futile.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #39 January 28, 2011 QuoteYes you are quite correct. I do recall, when I toured the Daimler Benz museum; the guide talking about "winning the future" with government grants. And the light bulb would never have been developed if it were not for forward thinking officials and government subsidies. While you are at it why don’t you educate me on how many nuclear powered hydrogen plants there are in the world. I would guess that it is the same number as the amount of unicorn ranches. You were a member of the Flat Earth Society in a former life weren't you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #40 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuote Let's just call it Name Change, since Global Warming couldn't achieve the desired results. Global warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. So you think that there is NO WAY that "climate change" is simply a naturally occurring process??? ...and if it is, why should we be trying to stop it? If by chance man has contributed to "climate change", Mother Earth is it's own living ecosystem, capable of correcting it's self. Perhaps cooling, warming, rain, snow, wind, etc,... is all part of this correction and we should let it run its course. Should we try to stop the tectonic plates from shifting, hurricanes from forming, volcanoes from erupting, the oceans currents from changing....????? Something tells me we should just let these things occur. but then I guess liberals always know whats best for everyone.... including Mother Earth.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #41 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteGlobal warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. From your link: "Climate is defined as statistical weather information that describes the variation of weather at a given place for a specified interval." Seems like they don't agree with your summation of the counter arguments. Negative. It's there in plain English - but I can understand your denial at the loss of most of your arguments against skeptics.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 130 #42 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuote Let's just call it Name Change, since Global Warming couldn't achieve the desired results. Global warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. A consequence of global warming is climate change, and a consequence of climate change is more extreme weather. The OP is in fact evidence of this. One could say that morons and charlatans are using local transient warm spells and natural changes in weather to encourage an activist segment of society that is predisposed to extreme views to claim that the "sky is falling."Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #43 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Let's just call it Name Change, since Global Warming couldn't achieve the desired results. Global warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. A consequence of global warming is climate change, and a consequence of climate change is more extreme weather. The OP is in fact evidence of this. One could say that morons and charlatans are using local transient warm spells and natural changes in weather to encourage an activist segment of society that is predisposed to extreme views to claim that the "sky is falling." Why don't you list the threads on here started by deniers listing local cold spells, and compare with the list of threads by believers citing local hot spells. You will find quite a difference.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #44 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Let's just call it Name Change, since Global Warming couldn't achieve the desired results. Global warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. So you think that there is NO WAY that "climate change" is simply a naturally occurring process??? . STRAWMAN - no one has claimed that natural processes don't affect climate.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #45 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGlobal warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. From your link: "Climate is defined as statistical weather information that describes the variation of weather at a given place for a specified interval." Seems like they don't agree with your summation of the counter arguments. Negative. It's there in plain English - but I can understand your denial at the loss of most of your arguments against skeptics. Having trouble with comprehension this morning?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #46 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteYes you are quite correct. I do recall, when I toured the Daimler Benz museum; the guide talking about "winning the future" with government grants. And the light bulb would never have been developed if it were not for forward thinking officials and government subsidies. While you are at it why don’t you educate me on how many nuclear powered hydrogen plants there are in the world. I would guess that it is the same number as the amount of unicorn ranches. You were a member of the Flat Earth Society in a former life weren't you No I am just a realist. I would be the first one to support wind, solar, bio fuels, and fairy dust, if any of it worked in the real world, but it doesn’t. Example: For wind to be an economically viable alternative, natural gas prices would have to exceed $7 per MMBtu. It is currently $4.50 and dropping as more and more Marcellus shale gas comes on line. Yet we continue to waste billions on subsidies. Do you recall GW Bush Invested 1.3 BILLION dollars back in 2003 with the idea that we would all be driving hydrogen powered cars by 2020! Epic FAIL! Waste of money! On the other hand, it is worth noting that in 2003 few had even heard of a “smart phone” now they are everywhere and without a big government program. Imagine that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #47 January 28, 2011 QuoteWhy don't you list the threads on here started by deniers listing local cold spells, and compare with the list of threads by believers citing local hot spells. You will find quite a difference. "Climate is defined as statistical weather information that describes the variation of weather at a given place for a specified interval."Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #48 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Let's just call it Name Change, since Global Warming couldn't achieve the desired results. Global warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. So you think that there is NO WAY that "climate change" is simply a naturally occurring process??? . STRAWMAN - no one has claimed that natural processes don't affect climate. That wasn't my statement, just your way to dodge the question.... How do you know that the current warming/cooling that we are seeing today isn't the Earth's natural process of maintaining a balanced ecosystem?*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #49 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Let's just call it Name Change, since Global Warming couldn't achieve the desired results. Global warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. So you think that there is NO WAY that "climate change" is simply a naturally occurring process??? . STRAWMAN - no one has claimed that natural processes don't affect climate. That wasn't my statement, just your way to dodge the question.... How do you know that the current warming/cooling that we are seeing today isn't the Earth's natural process of maintaining a balanced ecosystem? Climate HAS fluctuated due to many different processes over geologic time. Some life has not dealt with those changes as evidenced by the THOUSANDS of fossil species that we have found in the geologic record. Our species damn near went exticnt probably due a huge super volcanic evant. From Wiki QuoteEvolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has postulated that human mitochondrial DNA (inherited only from one's mother) and Y chromosome DNA (from one's father) show coalescence at around 140,000 and 60,000 years ago respectively. In other words, all living humans' female line ancestry trace back to a single female (Mitochondrial Eve) at around 140,000 years ago. Via the male line, all humans can trace their ancestry back to a single male (Y-chromosomal Adam) at around 60,000 to 90,000 years ago.[2] This is consistent with the Toba catastrophe theory which suggests that a bottleneck of the human population occurred c. 70,000 years ago, proposing that the human population was reduced to perhaps 15,000 individuals[3] when the Toba supervolcano in Indonesia erupted and triggered a major environmental change. The theory is based on geological evidences of sudden climate change, and on coalescence evidences of some genes (including mitochondrial DNA, Y-chromosome and some nuclear genes)[4] and the relatively low level of genetic variation with humans.[3] Personally I think the climate we have had over the last couple thousand years that has let us get to this stage of development is pretty good for our species. Shitting all over our closed little cage that is our planet will only leave those who can manage to survive in their filthy cage. I myself prefer the cage the way it once was before too many animals started spoiling it for the rest of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #50 January 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Let's just call it Name Change, since Global Warming couldn't achieve the desired results. Global warming hasn't stopped. The trouble with that name is that morons and charlatans then used local, transient cold spells as fodder for denial. So you think that there is NO WAY that "climate change" is simply a naturally occurring process??? . STRAWMAN - no one has claimed that natural processes don't affect climate. That wasn't my statement, just your way to dodge the question.... How do you know that the current warming/cooling that we are seeing today isn't the Earth's natural process of maintaining a balanced ecosystem? Climate HAS fluctuated due to many different processes over geologic time. Some life has not dealt with those changes as evidenced by the THOUSANDS of fossil species that we have found in the geologic record. Our species damn near went exticnt probably due a huge super volcanic evant. From Wiki QuoteEvolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has postulated that human mitochondrial DNA (inherited only from one's mother) and Y chromosome DNA (from one's father) show coalescence at around 140,000 and 60,000 years ago respectively. In other words, all living humans' female line ancestry trace back to a single female (Mitochondrial Eve) at around 140,000 years ago. Via the male line, all humans can trace their ancestry back to a single male (Y-chromosomal Adam) at around 60,000 to 90,000 years ago.[2] This is consistent with the Toba catastrophe theory which suggests that a bottleneck of the human population occurred c. 70,000 years ago, proposing that the human population was reduced to perhaps 15,000 individuals[3] when the Toba supervolcano in Indonesia erupted and triggered a major environmental change. The theory is based on geological evidences of sudden climate change, and on coalescence evidences of some genes (including mitochondrial DNA, Y-chromosome and some nuclear genes)[4] and the relatively low level of genetic variation with humans.[3] Personally I think the climate we have had over the last couple thousand years that has let us get to this stage of development is pretty good for our species. Shitting all over our closed little cage that is our planet will only leave those who can manage to survive in their filthy cage. I myself prefer the cage the way it once was before too many animals started spoiling it for the rest of us. you are welcome to leave this little cage anytime you want Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
