DaVinci 0 #51 February 1, 2011 QuoteNone of which prevent the gun from going off once the trigger safety is depressed. True, but it has them and that is the point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #52 February 1, 2011 Quote1- laws are already in effect in many states. Bad people don't obey laws, Einstein. 2- Most states already have this law as well. That's why schools are referred to as "Free-Fire Zones..." Hey, who wants pesky return fire when you're out to shoot defenseless people??? It is called sarcasm, Einstein. He wants to pass yet another law, when other laws clearly didn't work. Pointing that out is called sarcasm. Do try to keep up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #53 February 1, 2011 QuoteNow, you're openly admitting that increased legislation is a fatally flawed approach. You're contradicting yourself between posts. And you have shown to be unable to understand sarcasm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #54 February 1, 2011 Quote BTW, I am a Glock armorer. My condolences.... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #55 February 1, 2011 Quote My condolences.... I'd like to feel insulted.... But the damn things just work. And they are really easy to work on. 1911's are nice, but a PITA to work on and when you have an issue it can be a multitude of things. But I still own one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #56 February 1, 2011 Quote Quote My condolences.... I'd like to feel insulted.... But the damn things just work. And they are really easy to work on. The recent version have tremendously better ergonomics than the original series...but I had to mess with ya!! Quote 1911's are nice, but a PITA to work on and when you have an issue it can be a multitude of things. But I still own one. Love 'em!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #57 February 1, 2011 QuoteQuote I already covered this. Do try & keep up. Your comment is still incorrect. What's your purpose, pedantic or truth? Have you ever fired one of these guns? Have you ever fired something w/grip safeties: Centennial, 1911, H&K, etc? Some guys here like arguing w/trolls. I won't waste my time on it. If you've a valid point? Make it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #58 February 1, 2011 QuoteQuote1- laws are already in effect in many states. Bad people don't obey laws, Einstein. 2- Most states already have this law as well. That's why schools are referred to as "Free-Fire Zones..." Hey, who wants pesky return fire when you're out to shoot defenseless people??? It is called sarcasm, Einstein. He wants to pass yet another law, when other laws clearly didn't work. Pointing that out is called sarcasm. Do try to keep up None of Quade's posts in this thread are asking for more legislation. No need for me to try & keep up. I AM current. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #59 February 1, 2011 QuoteWhat's your purpose, pedantic or truth? Truth, you made an incorrect claim. QuoteHave you ever fired one of these guns? I am a Glock armorer. I have fired almost every model to include the full auto G18. QuoteHave you ever fired something w/grip safeties: Centennial, 1911, H&K, etc? Yes, those and then some. Although we normally pin the rear grip safety on the 1911's. QuoteIf you've a valid point? Make it. I already did. you made an incorrect comment about the lack of safeties on the Glock. Typical of people that do not really know these types of guns. There are three: They are: • Trigger Safety: An external lever mechanism contained within the trigger that prevents the trigger from moving unless the lever is depressed. • Firing Pin Safety: A spring-loaded pin attached by an extension bar to the trigger assembly blocks the striker from striking the primer of the cartridge until the trigger is pulled. • Drop Safety: The far end of the same extension bar locks the striker into place from the rear until the trigger is pulled. To continue to claim that the Glock does not have a safety is to continue to spread incorrect information and make some people think the gun is somehow less safe than models with safeties all over them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #60 February 1, 2011 QuoteQuoteNow, you're openly admitting that increased legislation is a fatally flawed approach. You're contradicting yourself between posts. And you have shown to be unable to understand sarcasm. Or, you're not very good @using it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #61 February 1, 2011 QuoteNone of Quade's posts in this thread are asking for more legislation. No need for me to try & keep up. I AM current. Maybe you should see who and what I replied to... Then you will see you are NOT up to speed like you claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #62 February 1, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhat's your purpose, pedantic or truth? Truth, you made an incorrect claim. QuoteHave you ever fired one of these guns? I am a Glock armorer. I have fired almost every model to include the full auto G18. QuoteHave you ever fired something w/grip safeties: Centennial, 1911, H&K, etc? Yes, those and then some. Although we normally pin the rear grip safety on the 1911's. QuoteIf you've a valid point? Make it. I already did. you made an incorrect comment about the lack of safeties on the Glock. Typical of people that do not really know these types of guns. There are three: They are: • Trigger Safety: An external lever mechanism contained within the trigger that prevents the trigger from moving unless the lever is depressed. • Firing Pin Safety: A spring-loaded pin attached by an extension bar to the trigger assembly blocks the striker from striking the primer of the cartridge until the trigger is pulled. • Drop Safety: The far end of the same extension bar locks the striker into place from the rear until the trigger is pulled. To continue to claim that the Glock does not have a safety is to continue to spread incorrect information and make some people think the gun is somehow less safe than models with safeties all over them. So, it's pedantic. Thank You for clarifying that. I never in any way said or inferred that Glocks are unsafe. You're an armorer? Great! What happens when something pulls the trigger on a loaded Glock? You don't even have to hold the weapon in your hand. Lay it on a table, & pull the trigger back w/a pen. It's going to go bang. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #63 February 1, 2011 QuoteQuoteNone of Quade's posts in this thread are asking for more legislation. No need for me to try & keep up. I AM current. Maybe you should see who and what I replied to... Then you will see you are NOT up to speed like you claim. I did: post#43. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #64 February 1, 2011 QuoteSo, it's pedantic. No it is truth.... You should learn to tell the difference between the two. In one there is an argument for the sake of it. The other is correcting erroneous information. You gave bad information, I corrected you. The fact you didn't like being wrong does not change it from factual to pedantic. QuoteWhat happens when something pulls the trigger on a loaded Glock? Like many other guns it goes BANG!!!! QuoteI never in any way said or inferred that Glocks are unsafe. No, but you did (incorrectly) state they do not have safeties. Don't blame me for you getting pissed at being wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #65 February 1, 2011 Quote: ***None of Quade's posts in this thread are asking for more legislation. No need for me to try & keep up. I AM current. I did: post#43. WRONG.... Post #44 to KALLEND. Maybe you should see who and what I replied to... Then you will see you are NOT up to speed like you claim.... Just like I said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #66 February 1, 2011 Just for you...... I put the 1911 at the top. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #67 February 1, 2011 I own a closet full of guns. I think the only one that will not fire when it is dropped is an automatic pistol. On that particular pistol, the safety blocks the hammer from striking the firing pin. For most guns, it is important not to carry a round in the chamber, if you might fall or drop your weapon. A dropped gun kills people all the time. I am currently counseling a boy, whose Dad fell on the ice, dropping his hunting rifle. He was shot in the side and bled to death. That was about a month ago. He was bringing his rifle in the house after hunting....He had forgot a bullet in the chamber. I went to college with another guy who kept an automatic pistol on his head board. It was cocked and locked. His cat nocked it off the headboard. He was shot through the head and died. Another friend was duck hunting. He had his 12 guage leaning against a tree. It was on safety with a shell in the chamber. His dog knocked it over. He was shot in the chest and survived. When I teach gun safety to kids, I tell all these scary story. I make sure they know that a gun can fire, even though it is on safe. Maybe that isn't true for some guns, but for most guns, I think it is....(if there is a bullet in the chamber).... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #68 February 1, 2011 QuoteQuoteSo, it's pedantic. No it is truth.... You should learn to tell the difference between the two. In one there is an argument for the sake of it. The other is correcting erroneous information. You gave bad information, I corrected you. The fact you didn't like being wrong does not change it from factual to pedantic. QuoteWhat happens when something pulls the trigger on a loaded Glock? Like many other guns it goes BANG!!!! QuoteI never in any way said or inferred that Glocks are unsafe. No, but you did (incorrectly) state they do not have safeties. Don't blame me for you getting pissed at being wrong. I'm not P/O'd. I know there are three safeties on a Glock, & had already said so. It's a technicality. If the trigger works? It goes bang. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #69 February 1, 2011 QuoteQuote: ***None of Quade's posts in this thread are asking for more legislation. No need for me to try & keep up. I AM current. I did: post#43. WRONG.... Post #44 to KALLEND. Maybe you should see who and what I replied to... Then you will see you are NOT up to speed like you claim.... Just like I said. I quoted you from #43 & 44. Here's 43 again: Re: [quade] Guns don't kill people . . . [In reply to] Quote | Reply Quote I thought guns weren't supposed to be able to go off accidentally when dropped or wasn't that supposed to be the reason so many people are against the testing guns in California? Depending on the design, a gun can go off if dropped. Examples include weapons without a hammer block (old revolvers and derringers), and open bolt designs (MACS, UZI). Both designs are older and not common anymore in modern firearms. Other examples of a ND can include an object manipulating the trigger. Say a pen pulled the trigger back. That is not the fault of the firearm. Other possibilities involve a damaged weapon. The California "testing" program involves more than just testing. The actual testing is not actually bad, it is all the other BS that is bad.... High costs, permits that expire... Etc. Quote So how DOES that happen? How do people have AAD fires? More importantly.... How did a kid get a gun (Illegal) How did the gun get into a school (Illegal) Quote Either way it's a lose-lose to anti-California testing folks. If it's a gun that wasn't on the list of approved guns, it kind of proves the California system works. If the gun is on the list, then it kind of proves the California system doesn't go far enough. Or it shows the testing is mostly BS and never did anything. ___________________________________________________ I don't know why you're being a peni...I mean a pedant. Quade wasn't calling for more laws. He asked for clarification on gun mechanics, & California's drop-testing. You're an armorer? Then why didn't you explain these things to Quade? Why did you start an argument w/me if we're both pro-gun? It calls your motives into doubt. I'm only replying so quickly because I'm stuck @home sick. What's your excuse? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #70 February 1, 2011 Quote I don't know why you're being a peni...I mean a pedant. Got it, you are PO'd and the best you can do is make 3rd grade comebacks. Quote Quade wasn't calling for more laws. No, But Kallend was .... Ya know, the one I replied to with the comment to make those things illegal.....Read post #24 again."So only non-negligent people should have guns? Fair enough." But Quade DID mention that the CA gun rules might not have gone far enough.... Post #3 :"If the gun is on the list, then it kind of proves the California system doesn't go far enough. " Quote He asked for clarification on gun mechanics, & California's drop-testing. You're an armorer? Then why didn't you explain these things to Quade? I did, post #43: "Depending on the design, a gun can go off if dropped. Examples include weapons without a hammer block (old revolvers and derringers), and open bolt designs (MACS, UZI). Both designs are older and not common anymore in modern firearms. Other examples of a ND can include an object manipulating the trigger. Say a pen pulled the trigger back. That is not the fault of the firearm. Other possibilities involve a damaged weapon. " Quote Why did you start an argument w/me if we're both pro-gun? All I did was say that you were incorrect about the Glock safety. Post #45 "False. The Glock has THREE internal safety's " YOU not I got upset and tried to star a fight. Post #47 "Do try & keep up" Post #48 "Bad people don't obey laws, Einstein" So why are you trying to start a fight? Why can't you just admit that you were wrong about the Glock Safety? Quote I'm only replying so quickly because I'm stuck @home sick. What's your excuse? Maybe you should read twice, and reply slower. You have mistaken comments and replies, and gotten upset at being corrected. I work from home most if the time.... So I have the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #71 February 1, 2011 Good Grief...I know some people here enjoy this sort of thing. I don't. Enough already. I'd previously mentioned Glock's additional internal safeties. I wasn't wrong about them. The only external safety is the little lever in the trigger. If it gets pulled? Well, you know. If a pen tripped the trigger in his book bag?. The other safeties wouldn't have mattered. Maybe I don't understand the way replies' headers appear here, yet. I quoted you from a reply that read "Reply to Quade." Others here have used sarcasm to good effect. It was easily recognizable. Yours wasn't to me. I'd forgotten you did give a brief description of possible causes for this to have happened. I also realize I'm a bit grumpy from being laid up sick @home. I'm sorry I was snippy. Are you familiar w/Cali's drop-testing? I, & Quade, would be interested in reading about it from an Armorer's perspective. I read Quade's reference to California not going far enough to be about their drop-testing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #72 February 1, 2011 QuoteAre you familiar w/Cali's drop-testing? I, & Quade, would be interested in reading about it from an Armorer's perspective. I know some of it... Let me take a good stab at it. To sell a handgun in CA you have to provide 3 test guns to an independent agency and pay for the testing. You must also pay a fee to the State. Only the maker or importer is allowed to do this, an individual or group may not. Each year the manufacturer/importer must pay a 200.00 dollar fee to keep the model on the list. So lets say you had a 5" and a 6" barrel... BOTH would have to have three sent in for testing and pay 200/each per year to keep them on the list. For example, the S&W 5" 952 is on the list, but the 6" longslide is not. Once it is on "the list" it can be sold in CA. Also, NEW restrictions do not apply to a gun on the list. In 2007 it was decided to require all semi-automatic handguns submitted for testing to get on the Roster must have both a magazine disconnect and a loaded-chamber indicator... but Glocks were already on the roster and therefore did not have to comply with the new rules AS LONG as they pay the 200/year for each model. This list does not apply to FTF transfers (even though they have to go through an FFL). Only guns sold from dealers. The lab fires 600 rounds from each gun, stopping after each series of 50 rounds has been fired for 5 to 10 minutes to allow the weapon to cool, stopping after each series of 100 rounds has been fired to tighten any loose screws and clean the gun in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, and stopping as needed to refill the empty magazine or cylinder to capacity before continuing. Passing means each of the three guns: (1) Fires the first 20 rounds without a malfunction. (So, if you have a 1911 that has to be worked in.... You are SOL) (2) Fires the full 600 rounds with no more than six malfunctions The drop test requires that each of the three sample guns is loaded with a primer only shell and is dropped 1m onto a slab of solid concrete having minimum dimensions of 3 X 6 X 6 in. And it has to be in a condition ready to fire... No safety on. It is dropped: (a) Normal firing position with barrel horizontal. (b) Upside down with barrel horizontal. (c) On grip with barrel vertical. (d) On muzzle with barrel vertical. (e) On either side with barrel horizontal. (f) If there is an exposed hammer or striker, on the rearmost point of that device, otherwise on the rearmost point of the weapon. All three samples must go through the entire battery of tests with no failures. So if one of the three has more than 6 misfires in 600 rounds or one of the three hits the primer hard enough to "fire", the gun fails. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/99-00/bill/sen/sb_0001-0050/sb_15_bill_19990830_chaptered.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #73 February 1, 2011 Thank You, for that. So, basically it's a rip-off by Cali to steal funds for testing the major manufacturers already do? Why doesn't that surprise me (rhetorical question)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #74 February 2, 2011 QuoteJust for you...... I put the 1911 at the top. Kimbers are decent guns, I've had a couple. Hopefully yours is old enough enough to be "Series I" before the POS Schwartz safety was put in.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #75 February 2, 2011 Californians are weird...and getting more so as time passes.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
