The Class War Launched by America's Wealthiest Is Getting More Savage

[loumeinhart 0]

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Money isn't taxed, people(or transactions) are taxed.

You're right, of course money isn't taxed but income is. So if one inherits a savings account worth 50,000, that money was already taxed at some point. Unless it was unreported cash income.

[billvon 3,120]

>Don't forget income taxes paid in a city where you work but don't reside.

?? You get to vote for senate and congress seats. They set federal income tax. You're represented.

(However, if you're saying that you should not have to pay _state_ income tax if you live and work in different states, that's a valid issue.)

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Money isn't taxed, people(or transactions) are taxed.

You're right, of course money isn't taxed but income is. So if one inherits a savings account worth 50,000, that money was already taxed at some point. Unless it was unreported cash income.

Or it was accumulated over time by someone who never made enough to be required to pay income tax. Doubtful, but it could happen.
But, in any case, when the funds are transfered to the benificiary it is a transaction and is subject to taxation. Governments find ways to tax almost every transaction.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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>Don't forget income taxes paid in a city where you work but don't reside.

?? You get to vote for senate and congress seats. They set federal income tax. You're represented.

(However, if you're saying that you should not have to pay _state_ income tax if you live and work in different states, that's a valid issue.)

No, I am referring to city income tax. All of my employees pay federal income tax, state income tax, and a city income tax. Yep, I agree that they all voted for, or have the chance to vote for, the people who represent them at the state and federal levels. However, only those who reside within the city have the chance to vote on their representative who will help decide how much the city income tax rate will be. Those who do not live within the city still have to pay the tax yet have no say in the people who impose that tax. I have never understood how that is not unconstitutional.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 3,120]

>No, I am referring to city income tax.

OK, I agree with you there. While the city you live in can impose income taxes on you, the city you work in shouldn't. However, they can impose business taxes on the businesses incorporated there - which may in the end amount to the same thing.

[kelpdiver 2]

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No, I am referring to city income tax. All of my employees pay federal income tax, state income tax, and a city income tax. Yep, I agree that they all voted for, or have the chance to vote for, the people who represent them at the state and federal levels. However, only those who reside within the city have the chance to vote on their representative who will help decide how much the city income tax rate will be. Those who do not live within the city still have to pay the tax yet have no say in the people who impose that tax. I have never understood how that is not unconstitutional.

Do you pay it, or does the employer?

NYC is the most obvious case. There you have people from multiple neighboring states who work within the city. I think they can argue well that they have to provide services for lots more people than actually live there. But if the representation issue comes up, then the way to collect it is from the companies that are the cause of the need for these additional services.

I don't know of any California cities that have one, but I believe SF does have many on the back end. We closed out one building we were in, even though we were still paying rent, to avoid paying an occupancy tax.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

We have to deduct city income taxes the same as we do state and federal. The taxes are withheld from the employee's pay.
I hate doing it because it isn't fair, but I think you are right in that is is a matter of services provided vs residents to pay for them.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Maybe most of us don't give a shit about something a prophet said 2000 years ago.

just the christians here...

(where's that johnrich guy)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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>i'm not dead yet...

Right. And indeed, being one of the very few people with enough disposable, unneeded income to be able to skydive, you are the super-rich to the rest of the world. Why should the super-rich such as yourself be able to skydive while people starve? How is that fair?

your arguements are getting silly (or sillier than usual). we're talking about the super rich and inheritance tax. i do my good work here with my persuasive powers...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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Or you could start doing that yourself. You're rich by worldwide standards; you can afford to skydive. How about taking some of that disposable cash and distributing it to all those people you think are being treated unfairly by rich people like yourself?

i'm not dead yet...

(but i'm willing to pay a fair inheritance/estate tax)

The dead don't pay the tax. Their survivors do.

but i'm quite willing, in my lifetime, to vote for a party that will double or triple inheritance/estate tax. are you?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Or you could start doing that yourself. You're rich by worldwide standards; you can afford to skydive. How about taking some of that disposable cash and distributing it to all those people you think are being treated unfairly by rich people like yourself?

i'm not dead yet...

(but i'm willing to pay a fair inheritance/estate tax)

The dead don't pay the tax. Their survivors do.

but i'm quite willing, in my lifetime, to vote for a party that will double or triple inheritance/estate tax. are you?

No, we agree on that point.
But let's get back to the point at hand, that of the supposed "class war" waged by the wealthy. Care to show us proof of some sort of conspiracy, cooperation, or any other organized activities by "the wealthy"?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kallend 2,150]

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We have to deduct city income taxes the same as we do state and federal. The taxes are withheld from the employee's pay.
I hate doing it because it isn't fair, but I think you are right in that is is a matter of services provided vs residents to pay for them.

Turtle's comment was about taxation without representation. Taxes you pay to any state or city that is not your place of residence is certainly that.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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But let's get back to the point at hand, that of the supposed "class war" waged by the wealthy. Care to show us proof of some sort of conspiracy, cooperation, or any other organized activities by "the wealthy"?

Ummmm- paid lobbyists... Payoffs to politicians (don't claim it doesn't happen, it does).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[HandsomeSalad 0]

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But let's get back to the point at hand, that of the supposed "class war" waged by the wealthy. Care to show us proof of some sort of conspiracy, cooperation, or any other organized activities by "the wealthy"?

The U.S political system?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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We have to deduct city income taxes the same as we do state and federal. The taxes are withheld from the employee's pay.
I hate doing it because it isn't fair, but I think you are right in that is is a matter of services provided vs residents to pay for them.

Turtle's comment was about taxation without representation. Taxes you pay to any state or city that is not your place of residence is certainly that.

I think you may have missed a post or two, Professor. It was I who gave those taxes (city income tax on non-residents) as an example of taxation without representation in a reply to one of Bill's posts.
Sorry for any confusion.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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But let's get back to the point at hand, that of the supposed "class war" waged by the wealthy. Care to show us proof of some sort of conspiracy, cooperation, or any other organized activities by "the wealthy"?

Ummmm- paid lobbyists... Payoffs to politicians (don't claim it doesn't happen, it does).

I'm sure it does happen. But those efforts are to increase benefits to the wealthy, or decrease financial burden, and not targeted specifically at harming the poor and middle class.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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But let's get back to the point at hand, that of the supposed "class war" waged by the wealthy. Care to show us proof of some sort of conspiracy, cooperation, or any other organized activities by "the wealthy"?

The U.S political system?

Nope. The political system is a balance. Politicians must appease the wealthy to keep contributions coming in, as well as "other benefits", while reducing the financial burden on the poor and middle class because it is their votes that keep them in office.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[HandsomeSalad 0]

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But let's get back to the point at hand, that of the supposed "class war" waged by the wealthy. Care to show us proof of some sort of conspiracy, cooperation, or any other organized activities by "the wealthy"?

The U.S political system?

Nope. The political system is a balance. Politicians must appease the wealthy to keep contributions coming in, as well as "other benefits", while reducing the financial burden on the poor and middle class because it is their votes that keep them in office.

Nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_theory_of_party_competition

[turtlespeed 226]

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Yet at the university level, the world sends its best and brightest over.

and richest...

(cambridge and oxford do quite well too)

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Why do you deflect?

Are you of the opinion that, if it is OK for them, then it is OK for you?

Or, and I think this is more correct, it is NOT ok for them, but it is still ok for you.

Taking money for nothing is still stealing, any way you look at it.

Soooo - are you going to respond - or CAN you respond, logically, on topic, and honestly?

Ooooh - lookie - It's like Dreamdancer has me on ignore.

How childish.

Why are you so scared to rspond, Dreamdancer? Are you thattired of being proven wrong, or you are just unable to formulate a logical, honest response and just abstain?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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But let's get back to the point at hand, that of the supposed "class war" waged by the wealthy. Care to show us proof of some sort of conspiracy, cooperation, or any other organized activities by "the wealthy"?

The U.S political system?

Nope. The political system is a balance. Politicians must appease the wealthy to keep contributions coming in, as well as "other benefits", while reducing the financial burden on the poor and middle class because it is their votes that keep them in office.

Nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_theory_of_party_competition

That is one theory of how the wealthy influence the political sytem.
But the votes of the wealthy alone are not enough to put a person in office. If 1% of the population have 90% of the wealth, then 99% of the votes belong to those who are in the bottom 90% of wealth. Politicians, regardless of who puts their name on a ballot, still must gather enough votes to win the election. That means they must take care of the little guy enough to keep them from getting too pissed off.
According to your and dreamdancers thinking, only those people who take care of the wealthy and forget about the poor get elected. If that were the case, then why the higher taxes on the rich? Why do we have inheritence taxes? Why? If what you say held water then the rich would pay no taxes at all.
The wiki article you linked to is only a theory by one person. If you read the headliner on the wiki page you would see that it reads, "This article needs references that appear in reliable third-party publications. Primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject are generally not sufficient for a Wikipedia article. Please add more appropriate citations from reliable sources. (June 2010)"

BTW, since you obviously can't figure out how to make a "clicky" ( a very, VERY simple process) I did it for you.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Yet at the university level, the world sends its best and brightest over.

and richest...

(cambridge and oxford do quite well too)

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Why do you deflect?

Are you of the opinion that, if it is OK for them, then it is OK for you?

Or, and I think this is more correct, it is NOT ok for them, but it is still ok for you.

Taking money for nothing is still stealing, any way you look at it.

Soooo - are you going to respond - or CAN you respond, logically, on topic, and honestly?

Ooooh - lookie - It's like Dreamdancer has me on ignore.

How childish.

Why are you so scared to rspond, Dreamdancer? Are you thattired of being proven wrong, or you are just unable to formulate a logical, honest response and just abstain?

I think he ran out of unsubstantiated arguments.
But don't worry. HandsomeSalad is taking over in that department.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[HandsomeSalad 0]

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That is one theory of how the wealthy influence the political sytem.

A credible one with age old parallels.

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But the votes of the wealthy alone are not enough to put a person in office. If 1% of the population have 90% of the wealth, then 99% of the votes belong to those who are in the bottom 90% of wealth.

Huh? The US political parties are business based. They put forth the candidates. It has nothing to do with wealthy people voting.

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Politicians, regardless of who puts their name on a ballot, still must gather enough votes to win the election. That means they must take care of the little guy enough to keep them from getting too pissed off.

At a local and state level, sure.

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According to your and dreamdancers thinking, only those people who take care of the wealthy and forget about the poor get elected.

Of course? It's a wealth run society.

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If that were the case, then why the higher taxes on the rich? Why do we have inheritence taxes? Why? If what you say held water then the rich would pay no taxes at all.

Your higher taxes on the rich aren't really that high, I don't know why you have inheritence tax and of course they would pay tax. It is a business society not an absolute oligarchy.

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The wiki article you linked to is only a theory by one person. If you read the headliner on the wiki page you would see that it reads, "This article needs references that appear in reliable third-party publications. Primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject are generally not sufficient for a Wikipedia article. Please add more appropriate citations from reliable sources. (June 2010)"

The theory is endorsed by respected scholars and has had little academic criticism so I'm not really fussed about what Wikipedia says - it is just a starting point to dissuade you from thinking the US system is balanced... or that votes matter.

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BTW, since you obviously can't figure out how to make a "clicky" ( a very, VERY simple process) I did it for you.

BTW, you can press the button that says 'url'? Truly you are an intellectual.

Oh, wait... you didn't even do it right...

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_theory_of_party_competition

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think he ran out of unsubstantiated arguments.
But don't worry. HandsomeSalad is taking over in that department.

aren't they the same person>

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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A credible one with age old parallels.

Maybe, maybe not. When you post a link to an unsubstantiated wikipedia article it doesn't lend much credibility here.

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Huh? The US political parties are business based. They put forth the candidates. It has nothing to do with wealthy people voting.

Are you unable to comprehend how 1% of the population is not enough votes to elect someone? Doesn't surprise me.

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At a local and state level, sure.

And at the federal level as well. Don't think so? Just ask the former representatives who failed to be reelected because they pissed off the NRA and it's millions of poor and middle class voters. All the money and muscle they could come up with couldn't save their seats.

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Of course? It's a wealth run society

Sure. But when the vast majority of the voters are poor and middle class, it is they that the pols must keep happy in the end.

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Your higher taxes on the rich aren't really that high, I don't know why you have inheritence tax and of course they would pay tax. It is a business society not an absolute oligarchy.

Ahh...I see. You think that the wealthy intentionally set their taxes higher than the rest of the population because......why??

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The theory is endorsed by respected scholars and has had little academic criticism so I'm not really fussed about what Wikipedia says - it is just a starting point to dissuade you from thinking the US system is balanced... or that votes matter.

So you don't think pols have to balance between keeping their welathy contributors happy and keeping their poor & middle class voters happy. Or that votes matter.
Don't quit your day job, 'cuz you'll never make it in politics. Or business.

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BTW, you can press the button that says 'url'? Truly you are an intellectual

Yep. It was obviously too difficult for you.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[dreamdancer 0]

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>so a lot of cheap labour...

?? No. Why do people like yourselves always associate people who have a different color skin with "cheap?"

wow - a casual accusation of racism. low even for you billvon

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding