Psychiatrist: Mass Shootings the Result of Broken Health Care System

[lawrocket 3]

I've prepared two separate long explanations only to have technical difficulties erase them before posting. Here's the short.

(1) More people get killed by deer each year than in these mass shootings, making them outliers and certainly not making them "epidemic."
(2) Her article is more of a rant against health insurance companies. Citing New Mexico, the insurance companies and HMOs were selected by the state so the state could save money and, in turn, not accept the blame.
(3) Access to mental health care is there, just not as it used to be. Government has set the model for health insurance companies to follow, including its policies of low reimbursement through Medicaid and especially Medicare
(4) I have a problem with any doctor who counts "keeping society safe" as a primary goal. Treat the patient. If the patient can't be treated (like an antisocial) the physician better not be doing anything to keep society safe.
(5) The epidemic of gun violence by the anti-socials and criminals gets no press anymore. 30 people can be shot in Chicago, but my guess is that because the a poor and non-white it merits not discussion despite it being true epidemic.
(6) She offered no solutions. All she did was complain.

Complaints without solutions are hollow and meaningless. of course, "solutions" must also be based not on what must be done but on what [I]can be done. Solutions like "Amend the Constitution" are usually pretty impractical.

Her self-laudatory comments about keeping society safe and lack of access are complaints. She might as well have titled her article "How HMO's Shot Giffords."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Cool.
So what do you think about the author's points? Or are you just dismissing her as a socialist, and that's that?

ROFLMAO ... I am dismissing you as someone who wants to give the already Big government bureaucracy even more power than it already holds. Yes comrade you need government mental healthcare bureaucrats segregating people who show the slightest sign of mental healthcare issues. But who gets to say what is acceptable "they are allowed to circulate in the public pool" behavior and who must be removed for the betterment of society?

Too bad parents stop raising their children. Of course there has always been some people who have fallen through the cracks, but the real cause for many problems seen in modern society started when parents stopped raising their children. A few decades ago parents stopped raising their children to be respectful, hard working self reliant individuals. Instead now we have BIG government who tells us they can save us with their empty nanny state promises. Why bother taking responsibility for your lives when BIG government promises to take care of you from the cradle to the grave.

Perfect world for Bill, John, Paul, Andy, and Dreamdancer

Too bad that the story doesn't fit their outlook. The world the story takes place in is what I refer to.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RonD1120 62]

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An interesting read, authored by a psychiatrist, about dysfunctions in the mental health care system in the US.

Note: despite its title, the article is about mental health care; it is not about guns.
Thus, this thread is about mental health care - not about guns.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-kitchen-shrink/201101/its-easer-get-gun-mental-health-care

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Our current epidemic of mass shootings is but a symptom of our nation's broken health care system. Poor access to medical care jeopardizes an individual's health. But when the mentally ill or the seriously distressed can't access care, we are all at risk.
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We as a society are only as stable as the least stable individual roaming our streets.
How many more tragedies need occur, before we conclude that our mental health care system no longer functions to keep us safe? When will we learn that everyone needs basic medical care, not just for humanitarian reasons, but for the safety of all of us?

From my experience in the mental health/substance use disorder treatment system, I agree with most of what Dr. Wang states. I disagree with her conclusion that a broken healthcare system has put us all at risk.

The risk has always been there, with or without any healthcare system. Every society has its crazies and always have had them.

My experience taught me that any financed treatment approach will be abused. It will be abused by the patient/client who has an entitlement mentality. Furthermore, the treatment system will also be taken advantage of by the facility seeking the funding to maintain existence. Whether the funding is from the private sector, the insurance companies, or from the public sector, which may be Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc., treatment facilities and programs will compete for the dollar. This environment puts the emphasis of treatment on the paperwork required to keep the money.

Psychiatric hospitals have a specialist in medical billing whose job is to study insurance and federal government lingo. They instruct clinicians on the correct phraseology to use in the charts to justify cash flow.

By far, most of the patient/clients I worked with were capable of being responsible and productive citizens. They chose not to take responsibility for themselves because they could get away with blaming their parents, society or some trauma in their past.

To keep from becoming one of the dregs of society an individual must have a reason to assume personal responsibility. That responsibility is taught by the parents and the community.

Families must be strengthened by the husband and wife's desire to stick it out and do they best they are able. To that end requires a strong spiritual faith component. Families must maintain support for their immediate community. And, likewise the community must care for and support the individual families.

Families and communities made America strong and we need to get back to those basic foundations. If we do not start thinking on a microcosmic level we became just another chaotic playing field for the computer oriented video gamers that value human life as cheap, real cheap.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Andy9o8 3]

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Perfect world for Bill, John, Paul, Andy, and Dreamdancer. Too bad that the story doesn't fit their outlook. The world the story takes place in is what I refer to.

I'd hoped the divisive ad hominems would have been kept to a minimum. Whatever.

[davjohns 1]

"We as a society are only as stable as the least stable individual roaming our streets. "

We have to be careful with this. We use to lock them up when they were perceived as dangerous. We still do with some. The really rotten thing is that mentally ill people tend to get to feeling better on meds and decide to quit taking their meds.

This goes back to my argument that communities and family need to handle most problems. When we look to the government, it just doesn't go well.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Southern_Man 0]

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2. I think the author overstates the power of insurance companies. There is quite a bit of paperwork involved and I would not want to defend the system as being in any way efficient but we do not run into problems with insurance companies denying hospitalizations. .

Sorry, but this is highly dependent on the company. I currently have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, who are indeed as you state. HOWEVER, a few years ago I had CIGNA, which was terrible. Every claim ended up in a dispute, or underpayment, or other error which took great persistence to resolve. By amazing chance, EVERY error was in CIGNA's favor. I was later told by someone in the medical field that CIGNA has a reputation throughout the healthcare industry for this behavior. I can imagine that anyone with mental illness who has to deal with CIGNA would have a very hard time.

I'll note that I don't really want to be in the debate defending insurance companies. I am sure some are better and some are worse. Thee vast majority of the people my agency deals with either have Medicaid, Medicare, or have no insurance at all. At least in the areas I know much about. The few people with severe and persistent mental illness with private insurance, we don't seem to have any problems getting psychiatric treatment or therapy approved. The biggest problem is getting certain drugs approved that need preauthorization. It can be done, just some hoops to jump through.

People in for substance abuse treatment have private insurance at a higher rate but substance abuse is an entirely different area with different rules and I don't have enough experience to comment meaninfully on it.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"