kallend 2,184 #1 January 13, 2011 This is GOP sponsored care denial, however, not a GOP sponsored myth"... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,603 #2 January 13, 2011 What's included in "basic" healthcare is stretching more and more. And with costs going up explosively to cover (in part) advertising costs for all of the medicine and equipment makers, as well as administrative costs for the various governmental and insurance entities who have to be involved in the payment stream, it's not going to get better. Back when we just paid the doctor, we bought what we wanted, and then we died young. When insurance covered the 80% and we had to buy 20%, we whined, so now there are HMOs and PPOs that let us spend others' money on health care as quickly as government spend it on schools, roads, and other infrastructure. Many of our kids are not going to live better than we did. And it's our fault for living too well. Not the politicians', the dems, the repubs, or anyone else. We elected them, we lived willy-nilly, we wanted what we wanted when we wanted it. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #3 January 13, 2011 QuoteWhat's included in "basic" healthcare is stretching more and more. And with costs going up explosively to cover (in part) advertising costs for all of the medicine and equipment makers, as well as administrative costs for the various governmental and insurance entities who have to be involved in the payment stream, it's not going to get better. Back when we just paid the doctor, we bought what we wanted, and then we died young. When insurance covered the 80% and we had to buy 20%, we whined, so now there are HMOs and PPOs that let us spend others' money on health care as quickly as government spend it on schools, roads, and other infrastructure. Many of our kids are not going to live better than we did. And it's our fault for living too well. Not the politicians', the dems, the repubs, or anyone else. We elected them, we lived willy-nilly, we wanted what we wanted when we wanted it. Wendy P. Some of us payed our taxes willingly, though, while others wanted all that stuff but whined about paying for it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #4 January 13, 2011 QuoteSome of us payed our taxes willingly, though, while others wanted all that stuff but whined about paying for it. And some of us blindly accepted whatever was thrown at us and said nothing. Fortunately for ALL of us, some of us whined and prevented bad things from happening or had the bad things changed or eliminated.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #5 January 13, 2011 QuoteMany of our kids are not going to live better than we did. True dat. Quote And it's our fault for living too well. Not the politicians', the dems, the repubs, or anyone else. We elected them, we lived willy-nilly, we wanted what we wanted when we wanted it. Wendy P. To be clear, I have to say... Yes WE elected them, but then we relinquished control over them by being so damned apathetic concerning their actions after the election. Spending. Who did the spending? Who did the OVER spending that put us in this hole? Does YOUR state have any control over the pork barrel spending? Does YOUR state pay for unnecessary luxuries and services? Is there nowhere less important in your states budget where spending could be reduced to help cover medical costs? So, IMO, yes, I guess, WE must take the blame and kick ourselves for putting the big spenders in office. Too bad the only voting choices we had were "bad" and "worse".My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #6 January 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteMany of our kids are not going to live better than we did. True dat. Quote And it's our fault for living too well. Not the politicians', the dems, the repubs, or anyone else. We elected them, we lived willy-nilly, we wanted what we wanted when we wanted it. Wendy P. To be clear, I have to say... Yes WE elected them, but then we relinquished control over them by being so damned apathetic concerning their actions after the election. Spending. Who did the spending? Who did the OVER spending that put us in this hole? Does YOUR state have any control over the pork barrel spending? Does YOUR state pay for unnecessary luxuries and services? Is there nowhere less important in your states budget where spending could be reduced to help cover medical costs? So, IMO, yes, I guess, WE must take the blame and kick ourselves for putting the big spenders in office. Too bad the only voting choices we had were "bad" and "worse". Do you feel OK with the GOP dominated government of red-state Arizona denying care, while the GOP at the same time whines about "death panels"? Or do you think it a little hypocritical?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #7 January 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteMany of our kids are not going to live better than we did. True dat. Quote And it's our fault for living too well. Not the politicians', the dems, the repubs, or anyone else. We elected them, we lived willy-nilly, we wanted what we wanted when we wanted it. Wendy P. To be clear, I have to say... Yes WE elected them, but then we relinquished control over them by being so damned apathetic concerning their actions after the election. Spending. Who did the spending? Who did the OVER spending that put us in this hole? Does YOUR state have any control over the pork barrel spending? Does YOUR state pay for unnecessary luxuries and services? Is there nowhere less important in your states budget where spending could be reduced to help cover medical costs? So, IMO, yes, I guess, WE must take the blame and kick ourselves for putting the big spenders in office. Too bad the only voting choices we had were "bad" and "worse". Do you feel OK with the GOP dominated government of red-state Arizona denying care, while the GOP at the same time whines about "death panels"? Or do you think it a little hypocritical? If you read the articles in the other thread about this arizona case you would know that they already pay for more than most states (including blue and red ) so instead of complaining about what arizona didn't pay for why don't you complain about the states that do less than arizona? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #8 January 13, 2011 All your doing is clouding the debate with facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #9 January 13, 2011 I must say it is hilarious to watch the right wingers defend their death panels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #10 January 13, 2011 QuoteDo you feel OK with the GOP dominated government of red-state Arizona denying care, while the GOP at the same time whines about "death panels"? Or do you think it a little hypocritical? Hell no, I don't feel OK with it. I don't feel OK with labeling it Death Panel either. Too sensationalist for my tastes.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #11 January 13, 2011 QuoteI must say it is hilarious to watch the right wingers defend their death panels. we are not defending death panels, most feel that the government should not be involved at all. if he doesn't have money or ins the state or fed government should not pay either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #12 January 13, 2011 > so instead of complaining about what arizona didn't pay for why don't you > complain about the states that do less than arizona? He gets to complain. Illinois gives a lot more to the federal government than they take in. Arizona takes a lot more than they give. For every dollar in taxes Illinois people pay to the Fed, they spend only $.79. For every dollar people in Arizona pay to the federal government, they spend $1.30 in Federal dollars. So he's justified in complaining about how Arizona is mismanaging his money; Illinois is in fact one of the states propping up the welfare state of Arizona. Don't like that? Get Arizona off the federal teat. Then their complaints will have a lot more validity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #13 January 13, 2011 Quote> so instead of complaining about what arizona didn't pay for why don't you > complain about the states that do less than arizona? He gets to complain. Illinois gives a lot more to the federal government than they take in. Arizona takes a lot more than they give. For every dollar in taxes Illinois people pay to the Fed, they spend only $.79. For every dollar people in Arizona pay to the federal government, they spend $1.30 in Federal dollars. So he's justified in complaining about how Arizona is mismanaging his money; Illinois is in fact one of the states propping up the welfare state of Arizona. Don't like that? Get Arizona off the federal teat. Then their complaints will have a lot more validity. Sounds good to me, if it isn't protecting our borders, paving nationional highways, or paying social security isn't much else the fed government should pay for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #14 January 13, 2011 Quote> so instead of complaining about what arizona didn't pay for why don't you > complain about the states that do less than arizona? He gets to complain. Illinois gives a lot more to the federal government than they take in. Arizona takes a lot more than they give. For every dollar in taxes Illinois people pay to the Fed, they spend only $.79. For every dollar people in Arizona pay to the federal government, they spend $1.30 in Federal dollars. So he's justified in complaining about how Arizona is mismanaging his money; Illinois is in fact one of the states propping up the welfare state of Arizona. Don't like that? Get Arizona off the federal teat. Then their complaints will have a lot more validity. Sorry no - if use the argument that 'it's the fed's money' in regard to taxes, then you can't complain about how Arizona "is mismanaging his money'. If Arizona gets off the Federal teat, then Fed shouldn't have any say about what laws Arizona passes in regards to enforcement of immigration.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
