kallend 2,146 #51 January 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteAirplane Pilot starting salary $85,000. Pilots I know are not atarting anywhere near that. Maybe if they qualify it as Airline Captain it might be close. Ask your jump pilot about Airplane Pilot starting salary. James This seems closer to reality. http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Commercial_Pilot/Salary But then again, from the same web site: www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Airline_Pilot,_Copilot,_or_Flight_Engineer/Salary... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #52 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote And damn well should be, Nurses should make much ore also! More than once a skilled surgeon has not only svaed my life, but the quility of my life! As said before, they EARN evey penny they make! My guess is you think pro athletes are worth their outrageuos paychecks! And you would be wrong, . . . again. I have not patronized professional sports for one cent for at least 25 years. At least for the major spectator sports - they have integrated fleecing taxpayers as part of their business plans. Repugnant is what pro sports has become. All facilitated by the juvenille hero worship tendencies of a large segment of the public. (A large enough segment to preserve the status quo and pressure lawmakers into using public money to subsidize billuionaire owners). Some people's lack of any ability to link amazes me. It's laughable to hear people complain about ticket prices, then bow to the millionaires that own the teams and play the games. But I digress. So what if median income for surgeons was $500K? Would they still be worth every penny? Would a million be reasonable? Is there any line you would draw - or is your opinion that saving a life, or improving it, is worth whatever amount of money it takes? When I shattered my leg (13 breaks)) I was willing to pay any price needed to be able to walk again! When My esphogase (sp?) was becoming blocked , making eating almost impoissible, I wanted the best surgeon no matter what he makes! When I broke my ankle, I didn;t want some half paid med school drop out poutting screws in it ! (I could go on and on including two amputations, that were reattached) Yes, I think Surgeons shoudl be able to live the highlife in those houses up on the hill , that I look up at! Instead, they are mostly populated by Lawyers, Athletes ,Investors, and....I doubt a single one of them ever saved a life! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #53 January 7, 2011 We live in a world where Hulk Hogan, is a multi millionare, and surgeons make average of 500! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #54 January 7, 2011 Quote What a bullshit list. In the summer I get paid to jump out of airplanes and in the winter I get paid to ski. I have the best jobs in the world and neither of my jobs are even on the list. City folk. "Sagger makers bottom knocker" is not on the list either. I guess they have to draw a line somewhere.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #55 January 7, 2011 QuoteWe live in a world where Hulk Hogan, is a multi millionare, and surgeons make average of 500! That's capitalism for you.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #56 January 7, 2011 >Eliminate the insurance companies, eliminate the quack segments of >caregivers, eliminate the politics, etc, . . . and you still have a level of cost >that is unteneble. Yes. Now eliminate education, and hospitals, and malpractice suits - and you'd have affordable surgery that you wouldn't want. You pay for what you want to get. If you want to get poor surgery, and perhaps never walk again, I am sure there is a surgeon in India (or even New Jersey) willing to do the operation for you. If you want better care, you pay for it. >We simply can not provide everybody in the country with Cadillac health >care (or anything even close) regardless of their ability to pay . . . Agreed. Some will have to go to the cheap surgeon, and live with being in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives. >any more than we can provide everybody in the country with a Cadillac >regardless of their ability to pay. That the current administration has >embarked on that path at a time when the economy is in such duress is >an indicator of either their stupidity or their willingness to put blind ideals >ahead of common sense. That people think that the health plan proposed is a "Cadillac" shows how blindly gullible people can be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #57 January 7, 2011 Quote I have not patronized professional sports for one cent for at least 25 years. At least for the major spectator sports - they have integrated fleecing taxpayers as part of their business plans. Repugnant is what pro sports has become. All facilitated by the juvenille hero worship tendencies of a large segment of the public. (A large enough segment to preserve the status quo and pressure lawmakers into using public money to subsidize billuionaire owners). Some people's lack of any ability to link amazes me. It's laughable to hear people complain about ticket prices, then bow to the millionaires that own the teams and play the games. But I digress. Are you just not buying tickets, or are you not watching at all? The media contracts are what have driven the salary escalation, esp in the football which has so many fewer games. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #58 January 7, 2011 Quote Well, the worst job that I ever 'ad was picking lobsters out of Jane Mansfields arsehole - Derek & Clive Live (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #59 January 7, 2011 It was sarcasm. s-a-r-c-a-s-m sarcasm. I am all too familiar with the lifestyle of a professional weldor. My comment to you in the other post was not meant to berate weldors, only to bring out the point that operating an ArcMate is not that difficult of a task.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #60 January 7, 2011 QuoteI love welding, and there are some very special jobs out there that you need a VERY skilled welder for, ie repair work for the space program, etc etc. But the time required to learn how to weld is on average only a tiny fraction of what it takes on average to become a surgeon. Lets compare. You weld something that belongs to your doctor, which is valued at 10 million dollars. You charge 20 thousand an hour. Your doctor performs surgery on you, who is valued at infinity, and charges you the same rate. You get the better deal compared to him. If you really tried to charge your doctor the same price he charged you, then you were acting like a fucking asshole, and should move to a communist country. But then, anyone there who deserves a high salary probably moved already. Absolutely the time it takes to learn is a fraction. But it takes YEARS of on the job experience and practice to get to the point of being trusted to make a perfect weld the first time, EVERY time, regardless of situation. Your figures are fucked up. If you think a human is valued at infinity, think again. Why should I not charge him the same as he charged me? I was running abusiness, same as he. I had several times the investment in equipment he had...unless he owned the hospital. He took advantage of my situation, i took advantage of his. If i acted like an asshole then I was only returning the favor.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #61 January 7, 2011 Quote>Eliminate the insurance companies, eliminate the quack segments of >caregivers, eliminate the politics, etc, . . . and you still have a level of cost >that is unteneble. Yes. Now eliminate education, and hospitals, and malpractice suits - and you'd have affordable surgery that you wouldn't want. You pay for what you want to get. If you want to get poor surgery, and perhaps never walk again, I am sure there is a surgeon in India (or even New Jersey) willing to do the operation for you. If you want better care, you pay for it. >We simply can not provide everybody in the country with Cadillac health >care (or anything even close) regardless of their ability to pay . . . Agreed. Some will have to go to the cheap surgeon, and live with being in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives. >any more than we can provide everybody in the country with a Cadillac >regardless of their ability to pay. That the current administration has >embarked on that path at a time when the economy is in such duress is >an indicator of either their stupidity or their willingness to put blind ideals >ahead of common sense. That people think that the health plan proposed is a "Cadillac" shows how blindly gullible people can be. About three years ago a friend was involved in an accident in Thailand. He was riding a motorbike and was hit by a truck. Severe injuries including bruised heart, broken ribs, punctured lung, damage to intestines & bladder, multiple facial fractures and injuries to his mouth and jaw. After more than four weeks in ICU he started reconstructive surgeries including several dental implants. Three months after the accident he was released. He made it back to the US almost four months to the day after his accident. Total cost? Less than $5000 US. Quality of work? By looking at him you cannot tell anything happened save for some weight loss. He says he can't tell the implants from his real teeth now and raves about the care he got anf the skill of his doctors. I don't have to tell you how much it would have cost him here in the US.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #62 January 7, 2011 QuoteTotal cost? Less than $5000 US. Total cost in local currency (average for 2007): 161 kMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #63 January 7, 2011 I find your story hard to believe... If your trying to charge him (the doc) likely 10 times what any other welder would have charged... why would he not just let you "un-repair" your over-valued work and just pay someone else who isn't completely unreasonable.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #64 January 7, 2011 Not replying to anyone in particular. This thread is much like those threads where competing/fighting DZOs, and their respective fan clubs, are engaging in a circle-jerk of mutual slander. Consider the parallels: 1. Filled with penis envy and dick-swinging. 2. Time for everyone to just STFU already. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #65 January 7, 2011 Quote I find your story hard to believe... If your trying to charge him (the doc) likely 10 times what any other welder would have charged... why would he not just let you "un-repair" your over-valued work and just pay someone else who isn't completely unreasonable. When somebody wants to go boating but they can't because their trailer is bent and broke (because they were a dumbass and jack knifed it backing up), they will pay. Besides, it was a small quick job ,less than five minutes, and even at my copycat exorbitant rates it was still only $200. Small change for him. I still love to remember the look on his face! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #66 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote I find your story hard to believe... If your trying to charge him (the doc) likely 10 times what any other welder would have charged... why would he not just let you "un-repair" your over-valued work and just pay someone else who isn't completely unreasonable. When somebody wants to go boating but they can't because their trailer is bent and broke (because they were a dumbass and jack knifed it backing up), they will pay. Besides, it was a small quick job ,less than five minutes, and even at my copycat exorbitant rates it was still only $200. Small change for him. I still love to remember the look on his face! Oh... that actually doesn't sound too outrageous. *I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #67 January 7, 2011 QuoteIt was sarcasm. s-a-r-c-a-s-m sarcasm. I am all too familiar with the lifestyle of a professional weldor. My comment to you in the other post was not meant to berate weldors, only to bring out the point that operating an ArcMate is not that difficult of a task. I agreed that running an Arcmate is not difficult. However, the AWS feels their is a level of difficulty that they had to develop a certification class for running one. http://www.aws.org/certification/CRAW/ My certification came through the manufacturer of the machine I ran, Genesis and St. Louis Testing (as you can see on the AWS website, Genesis performs the cert for the AWS.) I will say that you do need a certain level of welding proficiency to know when the machine is making a good weld; uniform, no undercut, heat range, wire speed, penetration, gun angle, arm speed, stop and start point. start speed, burn back..."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #68 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote It was sarcasm. s-a-r-c-a-s-m sarcasm. I am all too familiar with the lifestyle of a professional weldor. My comment to you in the other post was not meant to berate weldors, only to bring out the point that operating an ArcMate is not that difficult of a task. I agreed that running an Arcmate is not difficult. However, the AWS feels their is a level of difficulty that they had to develop a certification class for running one. http://www.aws.org/certification/CRAW/ My certification came through the manufacturer of the machine I ran, Genesis and St. Louis Testing (as you can see on the AWS website, Genesis performs the cert for the AWS.) I will say that you do need a certain level of welding proficiency to know when the machine is making a good weld; uniform, no undercut, heat range, wire speed, penetration, gun angle, arm speed, stop and start point. start speed, burn back... Damn....I just scratch and burn! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #69 January 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteIt was sarcasm. s-a-r-c-a-s-m sarcasm. I am all too familiar with the lifestyle of a professional weldor. My comment to you in the other post was not meant to berate weldors, only to bring out the point that operating an ArcMate is not that difficult of a task. I agreed that running an Arcmate is not difficult. However, the AWS feels their is a level of difficulty that they had to develop a certification class for running one. http://www.aws.org/certification/CRAW/ My certification came through the manufacturer of the machine I ran, Genesis and St. Louis Testing (as you can see on the AWS website, Genesis performs the cert for the AWS.) I will say that you do need a certain level of welding proficiency to know when the machine is making a good weld; uniform, no undercut, heat range, wire speed, penetration, gun angle, arm speed, stop and start point. start speed, burn back... I agree 100% that setting the correct parameters for the welder is far more challenging than setting up the robot.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #70 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote Quote It was sarcasm. s-a-r-c-a-s-m sarcasm. I am all too familiar with the lifestyle of a professional weldor. My comment to you in the other post was not meant to berate weldors, only to bring out the point that operating an ArcMate is not that difficult of a task. I agreed that running an Arcmate is not difficult. However, the AWS feels their is a level of difficulty that they had to develop a certification class for running one. http://www.aws.org/certification/CRAW/ My certification came through the manufacturer of the machine I ran, Genesis and St. Louis Testing (as you can see on the AWS website, Genesis performs the cert for the AWS.) I will say that you do need a certain level of welding proficiency to know when the machine is making a good weld; uniform, no undercut, heat range, wire speed, penetration, gun angle, arm speed, stop and start point. start speed, burn back... Damn....I just scratch and burn! Scratch, burn and use 'farm rod'.... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #71 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote It was sarcasm. s-a-r-c-a-s-m sarcasm. I am all too familiar with the lifestyle of a professional weldor. My comment to you in the other post was not meant to berate weldors, only to bring out the point that operating an ArcMate is not that difficult of a task. I agreed that running an Arcmate is not difficult. However, the AWS feels their is a level of difficulty that they had to develop a certification class for running one. http://www.aws.org/certification/CRAW/ My certification came through the manufacturer of the machine I ran, Genesis and St. Louis Testing (as you can see on the AWS website, Genesis performs the cert for the AWS.) I will say that you do need a certain level of welding proficiency to know when the machine is making a good weld; uniform, no undercut, heat range, wire speed, penetration, gun angle, arm speed, stop and start point. start speed, burn back... Damn....I just scratch and burn! Scratch, burn and use 'farm rod'.... Farm rod and several car batteries"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #72 January 7, 2011 Quote Damn....I just scratch and burn! They make meds for that condition - I think they used to prescribe PennicillinI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #73 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote Quote It was sarcasm. s-a-r-c-a-s-m sarcasm. I am all too familiar with the lifestyle of a professional weldor. My comment to you in the other post was not meant to berate weldors, only to bring out the point that operating an ArcMate is not that difficult of a task. I agreed that running an Arcmate is not difficult. However, the AWS feels their is a level of difficulty that they had to develop a certification class for running one. http://www.aws.org/certification/CRAW/ My certification came through the manufacturer of the machine I ran, Genesis and St. Louis Testing (as you can see on the AWS website, Genesis performs the cert for the AWS.) I will say that you do need a certain level of welding proficiency to know when the machine is making a good weld; uniform, no undercut, heat range, wire speed, penetration, gun angle, arm speed, stop and start point. start speed, burn back... Damn....I just scratch and burn! Sometimes I wish we could just make everything that simple again. Todays advanced process welding machines are as challenging to to program as they are incredible in their capabilities. Cold Metal Transfer (CMT), Surface Tension Transfer (STT), Pulse, Pulse-on-Pulse, etc. leave straight CV mode in their dust. If you have never run one of the newer machines, just imagine this.... You look over your coupon tacked to an arm in a practice booth. Two pieces of 14 gauge mild steel forming a vertical butt weld with a 3/16" gap. You grab your Mig gun, set your weld mode via trigger taps to bring up a preset program, and run a downhill bead with the wie aimed at the center of the gap (with NO WEAVE! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #74 January 7, 2011 Quote Farm rod and several car batteries Just to say we did it, my dad and I used jumper cables to connect two car batteries in series, then used another set of cables as welding cables. We scraped the varnish off a coat hanger, wrapped it tightly with paper, and used that as an electrode. It wasn't easy or clean but we did manage to stick a couple pieces of barstock together. Heck, the weld even bent a few degrees before it broke! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #75 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote Farm rod and several car batteries Just to say we did it, my dad and I used jumper cables to connect two car batteries in series, then used another set of cables as welding cables. We scraped the varnish off a coat hanger, wrapped it tightly with paper, and used that as an electrode. It wasn't easy or clean but we did manage to stick a couple pieces of barstock together. Heck, the weld even bent a few degrees before it broke! Good enough for OCC , (Orange County Choppers)An example of my welding, Teh dash on my 42.Gas welded stainless steal, I had to sand blast the top, because the sun melted my hand grips one afternoon!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/onekick/chopperpuppy011.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/onekick/pineV114.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
