I'm beginning to re-think my views on taxation.

[dj123 0]

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>"great news"?
>Listen Bill,
>Why don't you try going to one of the tent cities popping up around the US
>and tell those people they're *richer*.

Number of people living in tent cities today: 20,000 out of 300,000,000 or .003%

I'm not sure where you got your figures, it doesn't really matter.
Do you have an extra room or even some basement space wher you could take a coupke or a small family in?

Will you ,personally ,help to reduce that 20,000 number by 4?

Blues,
DJ

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[dreamdancer 0]

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America's super-rich got even richer this year with the country's wealthiest 400 people increasing their collective value to $1.37 trillion.

A total of 217 tycoons on the list, which is compiled annually by Forbes magazine, boosted their fortunes while only 84 saw a decrease.

It took at least $1 billion (£640 million) just to be included and the combined worth of the group was up eight per cent from last year, vastly outperforming the stock market.

The exclusive club now accounts for about 2.6 percent of all private wealth in the US, and its members are worth a similar amount to the gross domestic product of Spain or Canada.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8021392/Forbes-list-Americas-super-rich-get-richer.html

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[kallend 2,125]

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. . .

The "super rich" lost billions, so that particular conspiracy theory doesn't hold much water. Heinlein's Razor applies here:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

An untrue generalization. I know (very well) a guy who made a ton of money on it and joined the "super rich".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Put down the shovel
climb the ladder
and back away

Uhm Marc, this is a bit off topic but ,
you studied law didn't you?
Can you find anything in the US tax code that requires wage earners to file or pay Federal Income Tax.
Blue Skies,
DJ

Nope
Not a lawyer
Went to tech school for line work after some college

but I think I know what you are posting about
Have a question or comment so we can continue?

(I am curious where you are going with this)

OK , my bad,I've you confused with a different Marc.

My comment is simply this;
Contrary to what most americans believe, wages aren't considered income.
Wages are a simple fair trade , your time for money.
There is nothing gained. There is no extra. There is no "imcome".

Now if you had a stock which paid you 13% above the current interest rate, yes you hit the lottery and have *income* .

So really most of this rich vs poor is really unnecessary.

Most posting probably don't owe any income tax at all. They've just been duped into believing they do.
Forcing the "rich" to pay MORE income tax is also not the answer to our (Americas') financial woes.

Abolishing the Federal Reserve and fractional reserve banking, doing away with the present fiat currency and replacing it with one that is based on a known measurable commodity is the only sure way to extended financial security.

Blue Skies,
DJ

That is ok

And this may surprise you

I agree

But we will not see that in our life time
Too much power involved

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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[dj123 0]

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>And the same goes for the banks!
>The banks got themselves into debt!
>Their customers didn't do it!

Cool. By that logic, Ford kills people. They put that car on top of that pedestrian. The drunk driver didn't do it!

Bull Shit!
The Banks got themselves into debt !
Their profits would have been private.
Their debts have become public.

Try to defend the banks dude.
You can't do it.
Fact is their actions have been criminal.

The bailout is about hiding their criminal actions.

Do you support that?

Blues,
DJ

[kallend 2,125]

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Right now we have a huge deficit, clear evidence that overall, taxes are not high enough.

More like, clear evidence that government spends too much money.

So what are you going to cut, Medicare (into which people have paid for decades), SocSec (into which people have paid for decades) or defense. All the rest is peanuts.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Right now we have a huge deficit, clear evidence that overall, taxes are not high enough.

More like, clear evidence that government spends too much money.

+11111111111111111111111..........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,090]

>(it takes a lot of effort to build all those palaces) that it wouldn't be safer
> for everyone if they slowed down just a little

So stop construction projects and lay off lots of workers? Why do you want workers to lose their jobs?

>(don't know why you hate the poor)

I'd prefer them to be richer, which is (fortunately) happening. I don't know why you want them to stay poor. (Other than giving you a windmill to tilt at, of course.)

[kallend 2,125]

In 2000 federal revenue was $2.03T
In 2008 federal revenue was $2.52T
An increase of 24.1%

The CPI went from 515.8 (2000) to 644.4 (2008), a 24.8% increase

The population went from 281.4M (2000) to 303.5M (2008), a 7.8% increase.

In order just to keep up with inflation and population growth from 2000 to 2008 the federal revenues needed to be $2.57T in 2008. So the shortfall in revenues in real terms was $50Billion.

Thanks be to the GOP.

Sources:

Revenues - US Dept. of the Treasury
Population - US Census Bureau
CPI - US Bureau of Labor Statistics
Percentages - Ask a friend if you can't handle them yourself.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,090]

>Do you have an extra room or even some basement space wher you
>could take a coupke or a small family in?

Not yet. We don't have basements out here, sadly. But soon we will (hopefully) have a rental house where we can take a small family in.

>Will you ,personally ,help to reduce that 20,000 number by 4?

I'm doing what I can. I design things that people can sell; that gives factory workers, salespeople, shippers etc. jobs.

[dreamdancer 0]

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>(it takes a lot of effort to build all those palaces) that it wouldn't be safer
> for everyone if they slowed down just a little

So stop construction projects and lay off lots of workers? Why do you want workers to lose their jobs?

or keep building palaces while the people starve?

(and i don't think tax havens employ many workers - you may believe otherwise)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[kelpdiver 2]

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America's super-rich got even richer this year with the country's wealthiest 400 people increasing their collective value to $1.37 trillion.

A total of 217 tycoons on the list, which is compiled annually by Forbes magazine, boosted their fortunes while only 84 saw a decrease.

It took at least $1 billion (£640 million) just to be included and the combined worth of the group was up eight per cent from last year, vastly outperforming the stock market.

The exclusive club now accounts for about 2.6 percent of all private wealth in the US, and its members are worth a similar amount to the gross domestic product of Spain or Canada.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8021392/Forbes-list-Americas-super-rich-get-richer.html

You didn't actually read the article. Pity, since it again shows you in a poor light.

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The surge in wealth for America's financial elite was a stark contrast to 2009 when 314 of the richest 400 saw their fortunes shrink.

However, Forbes said they had not fully bounced back to the levels of 2008.

[kallend 2,125]

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Most posting probably don't owe any income tax at all.

Not me, Chief. I'll pay over $50k in taxes this year, and I don't whine about it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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a whale aint a herring

A tarpon isn't a herring, either. Nice try.

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not that THEY OR THEIR kids would actually serve the country like the Shrub.. or Potatoe Quayle.

Got those stats on all the lib kids volunteering for A-stan yet? No? Didn't think so.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dreamdancer 0]

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Not yet. We don't have basements out here, sadly. But soon we will (hopefully) have a rental house where we can take a small family in.

a family of dwarves perhaps? (hehe)

(and if the family can't afford the rent)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 3,090]

>The Banks got themselves into debt !

The banks weren't in debt when this thing started. People were. They were delinquent in paying those debts back. Due to their delinquency, the lenders could not recover their money. That started the cycle.

>Try to defend the banks dude.

Banks have allowed me to afford college and own a home. They keep my money safer than it would be otherwise and provide me with credit cards that let me spend my money more easily. They've been great to me. But that's because I hold myself responsible for my actions.

I can see how a less responsible person would see banks as criminal. After all, banks give people tools to get themselves in trouble - and some people shouldn't be allowed to operate dangerous tools. Perhaps an IQ test before giving out loans would suffice?

[kallend 2,125]

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Did you lie or has anyone stated they want to keep all their money from the gov

IE: pay no taxes

Well?

All those who claim taxes = theft are implicitly making that claim.

Maybe
if that was the claim

but you leave out the context
as usual a half truth

You show me dear sir
Where has anyone here ever stated they do not want to pay any tax at all?

And do it in the context of the thread

You will not be able to

So you support the lie Amazon made and then you perpetuate it

Shameful

So in addition to hating the Constitution you also support theft. Interesting.

You are takeing posting lessons from dreamy now?
Your desperation is show John

You just livin the lie I guess

Did you fail to read the many "taxes = theft" posts from those of your ilk? Anyone supporting ANY taxes and subscribing to that position, is supporting theft.

Your own words show the contradiction in your position and your total inability to make a logical post.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,090]

>or keep building palaces while the people starve?

How many people in the US starved to death in 2010?

>and i don't think tax havens employ many workers

Tax havens aren't really palaces. That's just a word they use.

[dreamdancer 0]

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The surge in wealth for America's financial elite was a stark contrast to 2009 when 314 of the richest 400 saw their fortunes shrink.

they didn't lose their fortunes - they shrank a little. but still super rich and now making more than ever (how can they do better than the stockmarket - odd?). meanwhile the bill for their bailout is just about to hit the rest of society. could end badly.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 3,090]

>a family of dwarves perhaps?

Well, one potential family does indeed have a little dwarf. She's about four feet tall. But she keeps growing, darn her.

>and if the family can't afford the rent

Then we'll send them your way. I am sure that you'll do the right thing and transfer some wealth from yourself to the more needy. You provide the money; I'll provide the house.

[dreamdancer 0]

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>The Banks got themselves into debt !

The banks weren't in debt when this thing started. People were. They were delinquent in paying those debts back. Due to their delinquency, the lenders could not recover their money. That started the cycle.

it would have been a cycle if the banks had lost a bit of money, didn't pay their shareholders for a while, and then resumed business a little more wary of who they lent to. but it wasn't a cycle - it was a crash. and the super rich are now using us, the rest of society, as an insurance payout.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 3,090]

>it would have been a cycle if the banks had lost a bit of money, didn't
>pay their shareholders for a while, and then resumed business a little
>more wary of who they lent to.

Sure it would have been. A great many of those shareholders were mortgage owners. What happens when someone has a crushing mortgage and then loses some of their income?

You can't affect just one part of any economy. Every time you stop building a "palace for the rich" you lay off construction workers. Every time you give someone welfare you have to get the money from other people. Every time you damage a corporation you damage the people working there, the people deriving part of their income from there and the government getting taxes from there.

So any time anyone says "I have a really simple solution to this economic problem" it's almost a guarantee they just don't understand the problem yet.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Banks have allowed me to afford college and own a home. They keep my money safer than it would be otherwise and provide me with credit cards that let me spend my money more easily. They've been great to me. But that's because I hold myself responsible for my actions.

you managed to grow up in a unique period - good for you. perhaps those 'baby boomer' days are now over while the younger generation are left with the tab?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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You provide the money.

and you take the profit - you're learning from the super rich

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 3,090]

>perhaps those 'baby boomer' days are now over while the younger
>generation are left with the tab?

Yep. Heard that a lot when I was growing up, how we were going to be saddled with the debts of our parents - those irresponsible flower children of the 60's who didn't want to work, just wanted to do drugs all the time.

Every generation blames the one before.