Thanks UAW...

[skyrider 0]

Where would many be without you ?

Oh....Yeahhh....."Still employed".....so shove the thank you
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/multimedia/player/index.php?id=1189

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Looks like a very well run business. Funny how such an efficient operation was never allowed to function in North America. Definitely good news for the small yet very well motivated Brazilian workforce. Now where is my welfare check? The government has been promising me that they would care for my every need from the cradle to the grave. Got to love the socialism North America is adopting. Everyone will finally be equal. Equally screwed.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[skyrider 0]

Gotta love the benifits the Unions have brought us...

[firemedic 7]

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Gotta love the benifits the Unions have brought us...

Edit:

When my wife was in college in the 80s she was invited by a friend, whos father worked in the steel mills in PA. The had enornous wages, benefits, etc. They even got the elaborate Christmas party, including door prizes such as TVs, Stereos Last but not least. A Christmas Bonus. All included in the Union Contract. Now, we get to buy mostly foreign steel.
WOO HOO go UAW.

[skyrider 0]

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Gotta love the benifits the Unions have brought us...

When my wife was in college the steel workers in PA had enornous wages, benefits, etc. They even got an elaborate Christmas party, including door prizes such as TVs, Stereos The 80s), and last but not least. A Christmas Bonus. All included in the Union Contract. Now, we get to buy mostly foreign steel.
WOO HOO go UAW.

I'm pretty sure you missed the [/sarcasim] key...

[firemedic 7]

I'm pretty sure you missed the [/sarcasim] key...

My Apologies, I was caught up in the moment.

[loumeinhart 0]

Quote

TVs, Stereos Last but not least. A Christmas Bonus

I recall (many years ago) a family friend bragging about how she slept off her hangovers in the crane cab at union steel.

What if there was a Skydiving Instructors Union...

[skyrider 0]

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TVs, Stereos Last but not least. A Christmas Bonus

I recall (many years ago) a family friend bragging about how she slept off her hangovers in the crane cab at union steel.

What if there was a Skydiving Instructors Union...

First jumps would cost 3200.00

[timmyfitz 0]

UAW?

U

Are

Worthless









________________________________
"1981 to 1988 is 7 years"-Kallend (oops, it's actually 8 years,Kallend)

The decade of the 80's was from 1980 to 1989. 10 years. If you remove 1980 and 1989 you have 1981 to 1988. 8 years.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Where would many be without you ?

Oh....Yeahhh....."Still employed".....so shove the thank you
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/multimedia/player/index.php?id=1189

How is this the Union's fault?
I was a member of the United Steel Workers for some years and enjoyed a high wage with great benefits at Hussmann Refrigeration (we built the refrigeration equipment that you see in grocery stores.) Without the Union, Hussmann would had paid next to minimum wage. I worked from 3am to 3pm five days a week, as well as a ten hour day on most Saturdays. We deserved what we made. We worked hard for our money.

I can't imagine why some people are dead-set against Unions. Often I hear said that Union employees are lazy bums that stand around all day doing nothing. Far from the truth. If you do nothing all day in a Union plant, you're out of a job. Parts do not weld themselves, nor do lines run without people manning the stations.

You want to complain about something? Complain about the over-paid CEO's and their cronies. Complain about the number of hard working Americans whom had lost the wages that support this country. I paid high taxes, but I also lived a good life. Never in debt. When Ingersoll-Rand bought the company, they quickly started sending our jobs to China and Mexico. They put over 1000 people out of work. Myself included. There was nothing that the Union could do about it.

The last contract that I was there to vote on passed by a very small margin. Ingersoll offered $1.50 over a 5 year period. They also reduced our medical benefits to just about nothing while raising the deductible. We lost eye and dental insurance. Ingersoll also said that no one was going to be laid off. The Union recommended a strike. Ingersoll made it clear that if we were to strike they would padlock the gate and shut the plant down. Well, it really didn't matter. Most of us were going to lose our job regardless.

We were in the Union hall for more than 12 hours before the vote was taken. It passed by very little. No sooner than the contract was ratified, Ingersoll started passing out pink slips. They did this the very day the contract was signed. Fact, they brought in armed guards to patrol the plant and guard the Company people during the massive lay-off.

For the skilled employees, we had to train the people they brought up from Mexico. The very people who were taking our jobs.

I operated a Genesis Fanuc Arcmate robotic welder and was amongst the highest paid in the plant. My job was going to a foreigner who was going to make around $1.30 per hour, compared to my $19.75 per hour. Needless to say, I didn't show the guy I was to train anything that he could use. Why should I? To Hell with him and Ingersoll. I could not care less that he was going back to Mexico without the knowledge to run the robot.

Who is to blame? The Union? Ingersoll-Rand? I blame the anti-American attitude that is part of the normal operating procedure of today's corporation. Companies could not care less about America, if they cared at all. If they did care, they would bring the jobs back and pay a good wage. It is those high wages that supported this country. Our government should heavily penalize corporations that move jobs to foreign soil. End all tax breaks to such corporations and tax them to death.

This country is failing and doing so miserably. The more jobs that leave this country, the more our government will have to borrow from China to keep this rapidly sinking vessel somewhat afloat. Without Unions, there are but only two classes of citizen, lower and upper. Unions produced the middle class. Without the Unions we are back to the days of the Company Store. I'm sure that no one wants to be in-debt to that institution.

P.S. To the person who stated that they knew a Union crane operator who slept off hangovers while in the crane. I call BULLSHIT! Who operated the crane while that person slept? Did it operate its self?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[skyrider 0]

Keep on believing that fantasy, get back to me when your job is also outsorced to a country where people are willing to work for a reasonabale wage!

I was in the Machinist Union, Thanks to them, we were employeed 9 months out of the year....(Mono Manufactoring, building lawn mowers for many companies, including Sears)

Union wages were so high, it was cheaper for the factory to shut down 3 months during the slow season, than keep people working...they have operated like that since the unions moved in!

Tell that makes sense for the workers and the country...3 months of unemployed workers , every year!

[freethefly 6]

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get back to me when your job is also outsorced to a country where people are willing to work for a reasonabale wage!

My job was sent to Mexico. They pay them $1.30 per hour. Do you consider $1.30 to be a reasonable wage? Do you consider the $19.75 that I made to be excessive? I believe that my time and skill is well worth $20.00+ an hour. Why do you believe that a person working should not be paid a wage that allows him/her to be able to afford a comfortable life? Should it only be the CEO's and top executives allowed to earn one million plus a year? The conservative frame of mind is that the average American is not worth squat, but only a tool to be used to further the corporate agenda of higher profits at the expense of the lower class. The less they pay, the higher the profit margin.

I've been looking for work all year long. Filled out a lot of applications with only a couple of interviews. The wages they offer is from minimum wage to $10.00 an hour. I refuse to work for minimum wage. I get more from SSDI, why would I want less? I need at least $15.00 an hour to make more than what I get on SSDI.

I am aware of Mono as I live 30 miles from Springfield. Mono is over on Division Street. They operate the full year without lay-offs. They build paint shakers and portable fire pits. One of my brother's old lady's kids works there.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[turtlespeed 226]

what is the equivalent cost of living there?

Maybe the position doesn't warrant a lifestyle that you have chosen to live and demand upkeep for.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[matthewcline 0]

"Filled out a lot of applications with only a couple of interviews. The wages they offer is from minimum wage to $10.00 an hour. I refuse to work for minimum wage. I get more from SSDI, why would I want less? I need at least $15.00 an hour to make more than what I get on SSDI."

This perturbs me. I understand when you lost your job you got paid a certain amount, but what was it when you started?

Why not take the minimum wage work?

Take a small deduction in income and make the necessary life style changes needed till you get promoted or a raise.

Staying on SSDI because it pays better, to me is wrong if the person is doing it as a lifestyle choice.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[firemedic 7]

Quote

Quote

TVs, Stereos Last but not least. A Christmas Bonus

I recall (many years ago) a family friend bragging about how she slept off her hangovers in the crane cab at union steel.

What if there was a Skydiving Instructors Union...

I woke up in the 206 one sunday morning, didn't remember how I got there. Just glad I didn't throw up in it.

[skyrider 0]

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Quote

get back to me when your job is also outsorced to a country where people are willing to work for a reasonabale wage!

My job was sent to Mexico. They pay them $1.30 per hour. Do you consider $1.30 to be a reasonable wage? Do you consider the $19.75 that I made to be excessive? I believe that my time and skill is well worth $20.00+ an hour. Why do you believe that a person working should not be paid a wage that allows him/her to be able to afford a comfortable life? Should it only be the CEO's and top executives allowed to earn one million plus a year? The conservative frame of mind is that the average American is not worth squat, but only a tool to be used to further the corporate agenda of higher profits at the expense of the lower class. The less they pay, the higher the profit margin.

I've been looking for work all year long. Filled out a lot of applications with only a couple of interviews. The wages they offer is from minimum wage to $10.00 an hour. I refuse to work for minimum wage. I get more from SSDI, why would I want less? I need at least $15.00 an hour to make more than what I get on SSDI.

I am aware of Mono as I live 30 miles from Springfield. Mono is over on Division Street. They operate the full year without lay-offs. They build paint shakers and portable fire pits. One of my brother's old lady's kids works there.

Then they have changed products sense the 70's!

Then you also know my old boss/job/life. Thomas Steel ,also th eowner of Funland shows carnival .....I was surprised to se Bill still alive last time back to Springfield...That was supposed to be my business by now...BUT, shit happened...

he was equally shocked to see me married & with a child...Gawd, talk about memories, ........

BTW, Thomas Steel never allowed unions in, and are still doing great!

Back on topic..

20 dollars an hour for monkey work is rediculous.. ...

and assembly work is monkey work!.

[skyrider 0]

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Quote

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TVs, Stereos Last but not least. A Christmas Bonus

I recall (many years ago) a family friend bragging about how she slept off her hangovers in the crane cab at union steel.

What if there was a Skydiving Instructors Union...

I woke up in the 206 one sunday morning, didn't remember how I got there. Just glad I didn't throw up in it.

Were you the Pilot?

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Why not take the minimum wage work?

Take a small deduction in income and make the necessary life style changes needed till you get promoted or a raise.

Staying on SSDI because it pays better, to me is wrong if the person is doing it as a lifestyle choice.

I would lose my house, and medical care that I need. I've been finding that quite a few jobs only wish to give employees less than 40 hours a week. They call them part-time jobs. No benefits. Any money that I would make would go directly into the gas tank. I need to be able to afford medical care, living expenses, food, house payment, insurance and anything else that is required. Most important is the medical care provided with SSDI. Without it, I'm dead (my doctor said that my health is on the down side as the meds are not working as they should.) It is a necessity, not a lifestyle choice.
Believe me, I would love to be off of SSDI. I finished college earlier this year and had hoped to be working by now. Not much for decent work in Southwest Missouri. I've considered moving, but that would depend on the sale of my property (several homes around me have been on the market for well over a year.) Until something good comes along, I'll stay on SSDI out of necessity.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

Best of luck to you with your situation...I hope things work out for you.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Quote

Why not take the minimum wage work?

Take a small deduction in income and make the necessary life style changes needed till you get promoted or a raise.

Staying on SSDI because it pays better, to me is wrong if the person is doing it as a lifestyle choice.

I would lose my house, and medical care that I need. I've been finding that quite a few jobs only wish to give employees less than 40 hours a week. They call them part-time jobs. No benefits. Any money that I would make would go directly into the gas tank. I need to be able to afford medical care, living expenses, food, house payment, insurance and anything else that is required. Most important is the medical care provided with SSDI. Without it, I'm dead (my doctor said that my health is on the down side as the meds are not working as they should.) It is a necessity, not a lifestyle choice.
Believe me, I would love to be off of SSDI. I finished college earlier this year and had hoped to be working by now. Not much for decent work in Southwest Missouri. I've considered moving, but that would depend on the sale of my property (several homes around me have been on the market for well over a year.) Until something good comes along, I'll stay on SSDI out of necessity.

Well this paints a different picture. I hope your situation works out for the best.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[billvon 3,114]

>They pay them $1.30 per hour. Do you consider $1.30 to be a reasonable
> wage?

If people are willing to work for it, yes.

>Do you consider the $19.75 that I made to be excessive?

If the only way to get that wage is to use clever tricks to exclude those willing to work for less, then yes, it is excessive.

>Why do you believe that a person working should not be paid a wage that
>allows him/her to be able to afford a comfortable life?

Because no one "deserves" a comfortable life. They can, however, choose to try to earn the money needed to live a comfortable life.

If the company owes you a comfortable life - don't you owe the company's shareholders a comfortable life?

>Should it only be the CEO's and top executives allowed to earn one
>million plus a year?

Nope. You yourself should be able to earn ten times that if you are so good that people are willing to pay that for your labor.

>The conservative frame of mind is that the average American is not
>worth squat, but only a tool to be used to further the corporate agenda of
> higher profits at the expense of the lower class.

And the union frame of mind is that the average company is run by a bunch of evil fascist pigs, their only goal to make their employee's lives as miserable as possible. Both are wrong.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

20 dollars an hour for monkey work is rediculous.. ...

and assembly work is monkey work!.

We busted or backs in sweltering heat doing what you call "monkey work". When I ran the robotic welder, I would produce over 700 parts for the day. The large uprights that were installed in the cases weigh near 70lbs. The small uprights were around 50. I was lifting a part from the table every 40 seconds in a twelve hour day. We also had to maintain the overhead carriers throughout the day if it jammed. We were also responsible for the maintenance on the robotic welder. You did not have any time to mess around. As for the people who manned the lines, they too busted their backs doing what you call "monkey work". Sad that you consider American blue collar workers to be monkeys not worthy of a wage that would provide for a good life.

Don't know Thomas Steel. I have heard of Funland, however. I'm more aware of James E. Strates Shows as a friend of mine, Ronnie Meyer, took off with them when they came to Central City in Ferguson, Mo., one summer. I almost went with him. Ronnie's father had to go down to Memphis to bring him back as he was only 16yo. Ron eventually went back to the carnival and stayed on with Strates Shows for near 20 years.

If ya get back this way in the future, look me up.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[loumeinhart 0]

Quote

We busted or backs in sweltering heat doing what you call "monkey work". When I ran the robotic welder, I would produce over 700 parts for the day.

Sounds like you were raised with and have a kickass work ethic.

Quote

I believe that my time and skill is well worth $20.00+ an hour

I've heard this many times before. My problem with this statement is that when you trade work for money, it's just that, a trade. So as individual commodities they each respectively have value that can increase or decrease. It seems to me that a person's work is simply worth what someone else will pay for it.

Like someone saying "we had to lower the asking price of our house to less than it's worth" -newsflash- your house is worth what someone will buy it for.

However these are virtues of true free market capitalism. Here in Ohio dirtwork pays about 9/hr. But Union dirtwork pays 31/hr. And there aren't many union dirtworkers, except for when an employer wins a govt contract and pays prevailing wage..yada yada..tax payers pay 31/hr for dirtwork...yada yada.

Uh oh..my posts are creeping up on my jump numbers!

[lurch 0]

Bill, sometimes the "evil pigs" perspective, although dramatized and exaggerated, isn't all that far from the truth.

Last 4 years I worked for Thermofisher Sci as an automation tech. I built them lots of robotic production gear, mostly relatively simple end effectors, end of arm tooling, simple relay logic driven stuff out of whatever I had at hand. Stuff that was still working years later. I was rewarded with fat raises and bonuses and awards and stuff. I loved it there. I was also their on-call robotics rescue guy and I did it well. No qualifications at all, just earned it in pure ability and street cred. I felt quite well appreciated and I felt I was being paid what my work was worth.

Thermo breaks up my plant and sends my job to Rochester NY, Petaluma CA, and Tijuana. Suddenly the company's attitude changes. They want to send me to Tijuana at base pay to set up my gear and train the same people getting my job. People not capable of DOING the job. They didn't want me to just set up my own gear but resurrect all the robotics they'd already sent there which had promptly been wrecked by the staff there. I was told of robotics being operated -by hand-... like a flintstones car... drag the arm to the pickup, pinch the gripper, pick up the parts, drag the arm against the dead servos over to the dispensing slot, release.
The combination of being expected to help the company put me out of a job while dealing with such catastrophic idiocy was more than I could take and I refused.

I was paid well to stay till the end and left the company in decent shape. Landed a job working for Osram Sylvania in an arclight factory in just 6 weeks. I was excited... for about 2 hours till I got inside on day 1 and learned how the company likes its culture.

Osram's single dominant priority was to keep employees intimidated at all times. This was not one or two managers... this was the entire corporate culture. There was only one topic of conversation at cigarette breaks... whats the next psychotic thing the company will do? Whos gonna get punished next for what insane reason? Constant ominous threats of termination or suspension for nonexistent safety infractions depending on whos interpreting the rules this week. A behavior that is expected, even demanded by management one week gets you suspended the next. Rules in opposition to themselves... Everyone lied on the paperwork at all times about maintenance because it was physically impossible to comply with all required conditions.
Example:
machine max: 1200 Per hour.
Fall below 1100 average and get threatened with termination.
Maintenance requirements... PM's, cleaning, quality control... Fail to clean and PM, get punished. Clean and PM and your output drops below 1100 get punished anyway. Elaborate lockout tagout protocol for simple cleaning. Fail to follow whole procedure, get punished. Follow procedure and you get enough downtime to get punished anyway. Machine breaks even once, fix it in a frenzy, desperately trying to keep under 5 minutes downtime, output falls anyway, get punished anyway.

In 112 degree heat.
Needless to say my motivation to excel like previous job vanished almost immediately. They had high expectations of me because I turned in a higher score in aptitude tests than anything they'd ever seen and I laughed at their "high pressure" exam solving all 4 problems in under 90 seconds each. Nobody had ever solved all 4.

On top of all this I was dealing with the most complex machinery I'd seen to date, while saddled with a grossly obese coworker physically unable to perform the job function let alone at the speeds they demanded. They told me, straight up, that I was expected to do most of this guy's job too, and match the output of first and second shifts, staffed by seasoned veterans who knew the gear and could track down root causes much faster than I could, and I was expected to match them immediately. With a millstone around my neck. "We know Steves not working out but we expect you to make the shift work."

Poor Steve had already long since been mentally beaten into total submission and behaved with the classic lab rat "learned helplessness" depression and lack of initiative. I didn't blame him in the slightest.

I gave it everything I had anyway. I eventually worked out a priority stack that allowed me to work much faster but without the "desperate frenzy" they demanded. Lacking anything concrete, I was eventually written up for "Not looking urgent enough."

By this point I was like "Fuck you. Fire me." And I'd keep right on working.
Incidentally they were also happily mercury poisoning the employees. The two most senior guys on the Mercury Vapor line had characteristic twitches and shakes, violent limb jerking, visible neurological problems, skin issues... I looked this shit up, these guys were displaying what looked an awful lot like massive, classic mercury poisoning symptoms. There are vast amounts of mercury released and accumulated in these machines. No attempt at collection containment or abatement. Every surface coated in a gray mud of accumulated oils, silicate shards and mercury oxides, that gray scum mercury becomes if you just leave it exposed to air. This place will be a Superfund site when it closes.

The mechanics were expected to clean the broken arctubes, hundreds per day, out of these machines with their hands and no respiratory protection. Ask for a respirator or question the heavy mercury exposure and they come off with an attitude like "Everyone else deals with it, so should you, thats the job now go do it." Meanwhile 2 rooms away where the arctubes are made, there are pressure gloveboxes and all kinds of protection... because OSHA's ruleset insists. Because that part is actually "manufacturing" the tubes and thus qualifies for serious control. Meanwhile in my area we're sucking it up because the company can get away with NOT having those same protections.

It took 8 weeks to get fired. When they tried that intimidation shit on me I just folded my arms and stared at them. By the time they got the idea, I was seething mad. I will NOT be treated like that.

8 weeks later I get found by a headhunter and land a sweet job in a tiny little semiconductor plant. The place is crazy and disorganized but happy. Nobody's scared, everyones laughing and joking and being productive all the time. Theres lead dust, acids and fluxes and lots of solder but I can have all the respirators and gloves I want and I can take the time to do the job safely, and do it right. Nobody cares what I'm doing or how fast, just so long as I run around and fix things.
I rewarded this attitude by cranking my motivation up to 11, redoing the lights, the plumbing, everything... ordered megabucks of parts and fixed stuff thats been broken for years. They're falling all over themselves to express how happy they are to have someone who actually cares about the job. I've got it made here.

Some places actually have a clue how to treat human beings. Some do not. Osram was so unbelievably nightmarish it was as if they were deliberately trying to be an exaggerated caricature of the "evil company" image. There is a pervasive corporate culture prevailing at least throughout that facility that treats the employees as if they were disposable company property with extreme hostility and demands that they accept and submit. And they wonder why they can't get quality people to work there.

The only thing separating me from everyone else working there is I know what I'm worth, I've worked for places that knew how to treat me and with my skills I can survive no matter what so even in this job market I was NOT gonna put up with their shit.

I've been preparing a report for OSHA about the mercury. In detail. Osram needs to be punished for this or they'll just keep doing it to the next guy who gets my job. The conditions they have deliberately created and maintained in that place to save a few bucks and squeeze out a few hundred extra arctubes a day are fucking appalling and I could not believe a place is run like that in the 21'st century.

My new employer, I'm doing everything I can to keep em happy. This is a good place and I could stay here for years.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[mirage62 0]

Wow man what an interesting story. Hope you stay happy at your new job and help KILL your previous company!!

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little