Look what else God made . . .

[Andy9o8 2]

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If there's phosphorous available, life evolves to use that. If there's arsenic available, it evolves to use that.

Ah, yes...let the conjecture begin...soon it will be viewed as a blatantly obvious fact.

With all due respect, you're once again turning the definition of conjecture on its head. It's a deficiency of logic in your method of analysis that I've seen you use frequently.

Or to put it another way, I know you are, but what am I?

[billvon 3,111]

>Ah, yes...let the conjecture begin...

I have not made any conjectures. Where arsenic is plentiful, life evolves to use it. Where phosphorous is plentiful, life evolves to use that. Life has evolved to use sulfur compounds, heat differentials, light and even ionizing radiation.

All these forms of life exist. You can look at them under a microscope. Often you can even look at the previous form of life that it evolved from under that same microscope. Often you don't even need a microscope to see them. You don't need to "conjecture" anything. Indeed, you would have to be pretty skilled at self-deception to deny what you saw.

[Coreece 190]

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If there's phosphorous available, life evolves to use that. If there's arsenic available, it evolves to use that.

Ah, yes...let the conjecture begin...soon it will be viewed as a blatantly obvious fact.

With all due respect, you're once again turning the definition of conjecture on its head. It's a deficiency of logic in your method of analysis that I've seen you use frequently.

Prior to this, I've only talked about conjecture twice, over three years ago...are you also confused about the definition of frequent.

...and attributing this discovery to all life is about as careless as suggesting that maybe we should start adding small amounts of arsenic to our diet.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 3,111]

>and attributing this discovery to all life is about as careless as suggesting
>that maybe we should start adding small amounts of arsenic to our diet.

Some people should probably do just that:

==============
Serum arsenic concentrations of persons suffering from renal failure and undergoing hemodialysis treatment (n = 85) and of healthy controls (n = 25) were determined by hydride-generation AAS technique after microwave digestion. The results were evaluated by comparing the values of both groups, considering physiological factors and individual data, as well as comorbid conditions of the hemodialysis (HD) patients. . . . . Perhaps arsenic deficiency contributes to the increased death risk of HD patients, and therefore, arsenic supplementations for patients with extremely low serum arsenic concentrations should be taken into account.
===============

[Coreece 190]

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Where arsenic is plentiful, life evolves to use it.

How can you say that when the only example is found in this particular bacteria where the mechanism by which the arsenic is integrated into the biomolecular structure is still unknown?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jakee 1,594]

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...and attributing this discovery to all life is about as careless as suggesting that maybe we should start adding small amounts of arsenic to our diet.

Eh?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,111]

>How can you say that when the only example is found in this particular
>bacteria where the mechanism by which the arsenic is integrated into the
>biomolecular structure is still unknown?

Your conjecture that there is a specific mechanism, separate from other existing mechanisms, is unfounded. All we know so far is that the organism uses arsenic like other organisms use phosphorous.

[skyrider 0]

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>How can you say that when the only example is found in this particular
>bacteria where the mechanism by which the arsenic is integrated into the
>biomolecular structure is still unknown?

Your conjecture that there is a specific mechanism, separate from other existing mechanisms, is unfounded. All we know so far is that the organism uses arsenic like other organisms use phosphorous.

Meaning, there "can" be other life out there, that we simply don't understand yet!

[nigel99 616]

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Organized religion isn't about religion or faith, it's just a political control organization like any other with a proven technique

-1

Why do you disagree with his statement? I think it is a pretty accurate description.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[beowulf 1]

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If there's phosphorous available, life evolves to use that. If there's arsenic available, it evolves to use that.

Ah, yes...let the conjecture begin...soon it will be viewed as a blatantly obvious fact.

With all due respect, you're once again turning the definition of conjecture on its head. It's a deficiency of logic in your method of analysis that I've seen you use frequently.

Prior to this, I've only talked about conjecture twice, over three years ago...are you also confused about the definition of frequent.

...and attributing this discovery to all life is about as careless as suggesting that maybe we should start adding small amounts of arsenic to our diet.

Can you hear the swoosh sound as the point just went over your head?!

[billvon 3,111]

>Meaning, there "can" be other life out there, that we simply don't understand yet!

That's almost a guarantee!

[skyrider 0]

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>Meaning, there "can" be other life out there, that we simply don't understand yet!

That's almost a guarantee!

I can not understand why most don't see it that way..

[rehmwa 2]

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Organized religion isn't about religion or faith, it's just a political control organization like any other with a proven technique

-1

Why do you disagree with his statement? I think it is a pretty accurate description.

perhaps his personal experience there is different than my cynical but amazingly insightful and worn out viewpoint

maybe he hit the wrong key

meh

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skyrider 0]

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Organized religion isn't about religion or faith, it's just a political control organization like any other with a proven technique

-1

Why do you disagree with his statement? I think it is a pretty accurate description.

perhaps his personal experience there is different than my cynical but amazingly insightful and worn out viewpoint

maybe he hit the wrong key

meh

Enlighten us!

[turtlespeed 226]

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Once again we see that without the handiwork of the Divine Creator human beings could not have been formed between the goo and the zoo.

Well, that's what you see. I see it as that there is still mysterious and cool stuff to find out about, but no reason to believe that it is "the handiwork of the Divine Creator." Perhaps some people just feel more comfortable with "the mysteries of God" over "the mysteries of life." Perhaps it is all really a semantics argument.

Ding!

I'll take - What ever makes you feel better and helps you live your life as a better person for 1000, Alex.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,587]

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I'll take - What ever makes you feel better and helps you live your life as a better person for 1000, Alex.

What if that's islam?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

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I'll take - What ever makes you feel better and helps you live your life as a better person for 1000, Alex.

What if that's islam?

Wendy P.

for me it's vanilla ice cream over hot pie or crisp

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 226]

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I'll take - What ever makes you feel better and helps you live your life as a better person for 1000, Alex.

What if that's islam?

Wendy P.

I have never had a problem with islam. Islam has a problem with me.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,594]

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Once again we see that without the handiwork of the Divine Creator human beings could not have been formed between the goo and the zoo.

Well, that's what you see. I see it as that there is still mysterious and cool stuff to find out about, but no reason to believe that it is "the handiwork of the Divine Creator." Perhaps some people just feel more comfortable with "the mysteries of God" over "the mysteries of life." Perhaps it is all really a semantics argument.

Ding!

From the guy who claims to have secret proof of the existence of God?

Really?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreece 190]

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>How can you say that when the only example is found in this particular
>bacteria where the mechanism by which the arsenic is integrated into the
>biomolecular structure is still unknown?

Your conjecture that there is a specific mechanism, separate from other existing mechanisms, is unfounded. All we know so far is that the organism uses arsenic like other organisms use phosphorous.

Well, there is apparently more research that needs to be done...but whatever, it's very cool either way...interesting.

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“I have no idea how they’re doing what they’re doing,” Wolfe-Simon says.

“I really have no idea what another explanation would be,” Wolfe-Simon says.

...But Steven Benner, a distinguished fellow at the Foundation for Applied Molecular Evolution in Gainesville, FL, remains skeptical. If you “replace all the phosphates by arsenates,” in the backbone of DNA, he says, “every bond in that chain is going to hydrolyze [react with water and fall apart] with a half-life on the order of minutes, say 10 minutes.” So “if there is an arsenate equivalent of DNA in that bug, it has to be seriously stabilized” by some as-yet-unknown mechanism.

Benner suggests that perhaps the trace contaminants in the growth medium Wolf-Simon uses in her lab cultures are sufficient to supply the phosphorus needed for the cells’ DNA. He thinks it’s more likely that arsenic is being used elsewhere in the cells, in lipids for example. “Arsenate in lipids would be stable,” he says, and would “not fall apart in water.” What appears in Wolfe-Simon's gel-purified extraction to be arsenate DNA, he says, may actually be DNA containing a standard phosphate-based backbone, but with arsenate associated with it in some unidentified way.

It is obviously to early to claim that Halomonas bacteria can or even will react the same way, let alone all life in general, as you stated earlier.

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...And indeed, Wolfe-Simon says she is already growing “14 or so other isolates” from Mono Lake on a phosphorus-free diet high in arsenic....

...Wolfe-Simon has ordered stock cultures of several previously identified Halomonas organisms, close relatives of GFAJ-1 on the genetic tree, all known to be arsenic-tolerant. She plans to test whether they, too, can survive in a phosphorus-free environment.

Source:http://www.astrobio.net/components/com_news/newsPrintDetail.php?id=3698

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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>Meaning, there "can" be other life out there, that we simply don't understand yet!

That's almost a guarantee!

Almost?

They just found one.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jakee 1,594]

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>Meaning, there "can" be other life out there, that we simply don't understand yet!

That's almost a guarantee!

Almost?

They just found one.

1) 'Out there' is generally used to indicate somewhere a little bit further away than California.

2) This is not neccessarily a completely the result of a different 'other' abiogenesis event.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreece 190]

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1) 'Out there' is generally used to indicate somewhere a little bit further away than California.

Well since we're talking about science and not faith...

Show me the money, baby!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jakee 1,594]

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It is obviously to early to claim that Halomonas bacteria can or even will react the same way, let alone all life in general, as you stated earlier.

He didn't state that earlier.

Life has adapted to every inhabitable niche on this planet. All life has not. 'Some' life has adapted to differenmt niches than 'other' life (and some even failed to successfully adapt, and no longer exists).

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,594]

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1) 'Out there' is generally used to indicate somewhere a little bit further away than California.

Well since we're talking about science and not faith...

Show me the money, baby!

Have you already forgotten that he said 'almost'?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?