BRADLEY MANNING: POSTER BOY FOR 'DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL'

[skyrider 0]

So, for the lifestyle of a few, the Whole will have to deal with Openly Gay people, that really had no reason to say they are gay, because "who cares" ...but thanks to them saying so, the showers are now a problem, hell, even the bathroom becoems a problem...

You are expecting 98 percent of the young men and women to have put up with Sex being an Issue?, when the ONLY issue should be serving their country!

Once again..WHY does anyone need to know your sexuality, while you are serving in uniform? WHY?

What is "Gained" by being "Openly Gay"? WHY does it have to be a "show"?

[skyrider 0]

I'm getting "flammed" in thsi thread! LOL

[mnealtx 0]

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You are expecting 98 percent of the young men and women to have put up with Sex being an Issue?, when the ONLY issue should be serving their country!

Once again..WHY does anyone need to know your sexuality, while you are serving in uniform? WHY?

So neither you, nor any of people you served with, EVER talked about wives/girlfriends/local bar hookups?

Bullshit.

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What is "Gained" by being "Openly Gay"? WHY does it have to be a "show"?

What, you think they're going to show up for formation with a "Rainbow Pride" sash on or something?

Again...bullshit.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[RonD1120 62]

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How do you figure that?

There would appear, in a 10 second google search, to be numerous openly gay men and women who can serve just fine.

If your talking some one flamboyant and flashy, I would venture a guess they would not be interested in serving in the Military.

Matt

I've had a tremendous amount of fun with this thread this afternoon.

When I was in the USAF we had three effeminate guys in our squadron. They all performed above their duties with respect and professionalism. Nobody asked and nobody told.

Off base I once walked into a bedroom at a party and found two guys under the covers in an embrace. They begged me not to report them. I didn't and don't know what became of them. They were not in my squadron.

We had an Air Commando B-26 pilot that was the epitome of gung ho. He dressed in crisp starched tailored fatigues, blue ascot (when no one else wore one for normal duty), spit shined boots and his AC Bush Hat at just the right angle. The story goes that one day a fellow pilot asked him if he was queer. His response was "Fuck you, I fly B-26's." He rotated to SVN just like everybody else. No further asking and, no tellin'.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[matthewcline 0]

Neil Patrick Harris - Openly Gay, Conservative and not a "Flamer".

I think you have Liberace stuck in the equating of "flamer" and you have "flamer" stuck in equating "openly gay".

I knew several gay Soldiers, they where just as manly or womanly as the straight Soldiers in their Gender.

I just don't see the issue with this.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Amazon 7]

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So, for the lifestyle of a few, the Whole will have to deal with Openly Gay people, that really had no reason to say they are gay, because "who cares" ...but thanks to them saying so, the showers are now a problem, hell, even the bathroom becoems a problem...

You are expecting 98 percent of the young men and women to have put up with Sex being an Issue?, when the ONLY issue should be serving their country!

Once again..WHY does anyone need to know your sexuality, while you are serving in uniform? WHY?

What is "Gained" by being "Openly Gay"? WHY does it have to be a "show"?

Kinda like the same arguements that were used in the 1940's when all those blacks started serving this country openly. I guess all those white people in the military at the time were put out too.

Seems to me that people got over it. Its a whole lot easier to spot a service member in uniform that happens to be black than it is to spot one who is gay.

[DanG 1]

It doesn't have to be a show. There's a difference between being allowed to have an open relationship with a member of the same sex, and buttfucking him in the drill hall. The two are not the same thing.

I can't remember seeing a desk/office belonging to a married/committed servicemember where there wasn't at least one picture of that person's spouse/girlfriend. That's the level of openness that gays want. If you think having a picture of your loved one on your desk is flaunting your sexuality, then pretty much everyone in the military is breaking your rules right now.

- Dan G

[matthewcline 0]

I think your story makes the point that any individual, regardless of sexual orientation, can serve.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[labrys 0]

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That's the level of openness that gays want.

You clearly don't know what "openly gay" means either.

Owned by Remi #?

[jakee 1,577]

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>He would say that homosexuality is an abomination and those
>who practice it shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Perhaps. But if that's the case, any soldier who serves during wartime is going to hell anyway. Jesus was far more clear on the evils of killing and violence than he was on homosexuality. (Matthew 5:38-40, Matthew 19:19, Matthew 5:9)

You guys always overlook Romans and the direction to follow the orders of your government.

And you don't have the balls to answer the question of how far you would go on the orders of your government.

It's an absurd argument because it absolves the individual of responsibility for any atrocity, no matter how heinous, as long as they were told to do it by someone higher up the chain than them.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Romans 1 was Paul's views on lust, not the views of Jesus on homosexuality. (And indeed Paul was condemning shameful lusts, not homosexuality per se.) Jesus is fairly mum on the topic overall.

Of course he was. Look at the Apostles - all men. Do you think that's a coincidence? The Last Supper was a sausage fest.

[DiverMike 5]

I don't have a dog in this fight since I am not active duty nor am I gay, but it amuses me when people make the argument the military will have to somehow have to separate the male bathrooms. The argument is based on "I am such a handsome stud and the only reason some other guy isn't preasuring me to have sex with him is it is against the rules".

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[jakee 1,577]

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How do you figure that?

There would appear, in a 10 second google search, to be numerous openly gay men and women who can serve just fine.

If your talking some one flamboyant and flashy, I would venture a guess they would not be interested in serving in the Military.

Matt

How many times to I have to type "Flammer"

Oh, I don't know: how many more tries will it take for you to spell it right?

But if you're wondering how long it'll take before anyone except the biblically bigoted to agree with you, well, you'll be typing for a while yet. You're just wrong.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,090]

>No man fitting the code of miltary conduct could ever be mistaken for
>"openly" gay!

Then you don't know many openly gay people. They are as different as openly heterosexual people are.

[winsor 236]

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Homosexuality has previously been defined as an abomination in Scripture.

As have eating shrimp and lobster. That was my original point and you've just circled yourself right back to it.

Tell us again, please, what JC would say about eating these tasty little shellfish?

Bye.

He was observant, and shellfish are not kosher.

[Bolas 5]

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>He would say that homosexuality is an abomination and those
>who practice it shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Perhaps. But if that's the case, any soldier who serves during wartime is going to hell anyway. Jesus was far more clear on the evils of killing and violence than he was on homosexuality. (Matthew 5:38-40, Matthew 19:19, Matthew 5:9)

You guys always overlook Romans and the direction to follow the orders of your government.

And you don't have the balls to answer the question of how far you would go on the orders of your government.

It's an absurd argument because it absolves the individual of responsibility for any atrocity, no matter how heinous, as long as they were told to do it by someone higher up the chain than them.

And who's at the top of the chain? Dieties.
Hence "JC says not to do this, but he 'told me' to do it."

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[RonD1120 62]

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>He would say that homosexuality is an abomination and those
>who practice it shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Perhaps. But if that's the case, any soldier who serves during wartime is going to hell anyway. Jesus was far more clear on the evils of killing and violence than he was on homosexuality. (Matthew 5:38-40, Matthew 19:19, Matthew 5:9)

You guys always overlook Romans and the direction to follow the orders of your government.

And you don't have the balls to answer the question of how far you would go on the orders of your government.

It's an absurd argument because it absolves the individual of responsibility for any atrocity, no matter how heinous, as long as they were told to do it by someone higher up the chain than them.

What? I will follow any orders from my government. Right now I would like to change the leadership of my government so that I don't have to do anything distasteful, like pay more taxes to provide more welfare to illegal aliens and ghetto rats.

Killing a declared enemy, not a problem. I may have nightmares later but he's dead.

Is that clear enough for you jakee?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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I think your story makes the point that any individual, regardless of sexual orientation, can serve.

Matt

I agree. The career NCO's will make the appropriate assignments.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,577]

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Is that clear enough for you jakee?

No.

Would you pray to Mecca if the government ordered you to? Would you marry and then rape a political prisoner in order for her to no longer be a virgin and therefore eligible to be executed? Would you load a jew or a gypsy into an oven?

Is a person who executes a missionary for spreading the gospel illegally acting in accordance with Jesus' commands?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

I knew if I responded to your bait you would become absurd. You always do. Thanks for not disappointing me and remaining true to your character.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,577]

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I knew if I responded to your bait you would become absurd.

How am I being absurd? Every example I have used is based on a real world situation. These are all examples of orders that have been given. You can't just pretend they don't exist. Ah well, I told you that you didn't have the balls to face up to the actual implications of your argument.



Pop quiz: who was following Jesus' commands; Oskar Schindler or Amon Goeth?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,090]

>Ah well, I told you that you didn't have the balls to face up to the
>actual implications of your argument.

Enough with the personal comments.

[labrys 0]

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While I am in favor of universal conscription, and for service as a prerequisite for citizenship a la "Starship Troopers," I think that a form of DADT that protects gays from malicious outing is the best we can do for the moment.

I missed this when you first posted it, Winsor. It's very well stated and very thoughtful. The only thing I want to say is that I think that DADT was good for its time 15 years ago, but it's time to move on now.

Owned by Remi #?

[Amazon 7]

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While I am in favor of universal conscription, and for service as a prerequisite for citizenship a la "Starship Troopers," I think that a form of DADT that protects gays from malicious outing is the best we can do for the moment.

I missed this when you first posted it, Winsor. It's very well stated and very thoughtful. The only thing I want to say is that I think that DADT was good for its time 15 years ago, but it's time to move on now.

This thread has had some interesting twists.

A few people who I expected to raise their ugly heads have indeed not dissapointed. Others who I thought would be among their ranks have surprised me.

Perhaps the demise of DADT will finally issue in a change in more peoples attitudes and they will realize that the end of civilization is not at hand just because someone might be gay. The gay people who wish to serve their country are not getting "special rights" just to be able to live and risk their lives just like the rest of their countrymen and countrywomen.

[skycop 0]

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I think your story makes the point that any individual, regardless of sexual orientation, can serve.

Ok Matt,
I'll bite, let's address the 500lb elephant in the room.

What would two good looking openly serving (so to speak) lesbians do for unit morale? Me thinks much...
What would two pissed off butchy lesbians do for the unit mission? Me thinks much........

What does a flaming guy openly serving do for either? Me thinks not much......

There's my double standard..................
Now back to the serious discussion......

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"