daily TSA f#$k-up thread

[Andy9o8 2]

You know, the bleeding-heart in me feels some sympathy for TSA workers who are just trying to pay the damn rent and find themselves in the middle of a bulls-eye of hostility. The stress level must be up there.

[winsor 236]

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You know, the bleeding-heart in me feels some sympathy for TSA workers who are just trying to pay the damn rent and find themselves in the middle of a bulls-eye of hostility. The stress level must be up there.

If they weren't incompetent retards, they would have been disqualified early in the application process.

Zero sympathy.

[Andy9o8 2]

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You know, the bleeding-heart in me feels some sympathy for TSA workers who are just trying to pay the damn rent and find themselves in the middle of a bulls-eye of hostility. The stress level must be up there.

If they weren't incompetent retards, they would have been disqualified early in the application process. Zero sympathy.

I'm just too soft for you.

[ryoder 1,590]

Has anyone heard of a TSA droid demanding a traveler's wallet, and then rifling through it?
This actually happened to a personal friend recently.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 3,085]

>yet you suggest this same TSA will suddenly straighten up, grow a brain,
>institute some miracle education program that will solve everything
>without anyone ever having to fear having their junk touched or a pseudo
>nude image taken using a body scanner?

Most TSA employees are reasonably competent. A few are criminals, perverts etc. A system that relies on most people being competent, while being tolerant of a few that are criminals, works. A system where a single criminal can do tremendous damage to the cause of privacy - doesn't.

[aphid 0]

It's happened to me. I carry an electronic airport gate-pass (looks like an unmarked thick credit-card) for the my small hometown airport. Forgot the wallet in my back pocket. The thing set off the metal detector.

Showed the wallet to the TSA agent, put it in a tray and sent it through the scanner. Stepped back through the metal-detector a second time and came through clean.

The person looking at my wallet on his screen couldn't figure out the card in the wallet, so took it in hand and quite literally emptied the entire contents. Every card, license, and the cash. Visually studied the card for about 30 seconds, then called a supervisor. The supervisor couldn't figure it out either. Explained what it was (to now the third person). He said if it was for airport(s), (somewhat indignantly) where was my pilot-license?. (It's in the glove-box of my Cessna) Anyway, they finally let me go on to board my commercial flight.

Total extra time wasted on this little encounter - about 4 minutes. Not just for me, but for everybody in the line behind me.

But I'm pretty sure everybody felt a lot safer and greatly relieved.

That was about 3 years ago at Sky Harbor - KPHX.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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>yet you suggest this same TSA will suddenly straighten up, grow a brain,
>institute some miracle education program that will solve everything
>without anyone ever having to fear having their junk touched or a pseudo
>nude image taken using a body scanner?

Most TSA employees are reasonably competent. A few are criminals, perverts etc. A system that relies on most people being competent, while being tolerant of a few that are criminals, works. A system where a single criminal can do tremendous damage to the cause of privacy - doesn't.

*sigh*

Again, Bill, I hear your words, but don't get it.

What I hear is "that the potential for the damage done by one or a few acting nefariously is reason to demigod the new technology and other new measures/procedures the TSA is putting in place?"

Again, why not get outraged when individuals are caught abusing the technology and procedures rather then the technology or procedures?


What you and others suggest, I'm sorry my friend, remind me of the attached.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Aphid... okay... I'll bite... what would you rather have had them do?

Take your word for it?

Be an expert on every possible form of swipe card produced or recently produced that may still be in use?

Sorry, but you saying its a swipe card to get into an airport and the agent asking if you have your pilot's license is reasonable. You replied you didn't have it with you. That too is reasonable.

I'm sure what YOU wanted was that YOU not be inconvenienced, but I can hear your outrage now if a bad-guy had snuck a bomb or weapon past the same TSA guys and onto the airplane you were on when an examination of something the guy working the xray machine didn't understand appeared in their wallet and hindsight showed it didn't result in a search and some questions.

Be more careful whats in your pockets next time you go through airport security. If you goof, deal with it.



Yeah, similar has happened to me. I got to toss out an old pair of nail clippers with nail file once because I forgot it was in my shaving kit when going through airport security. So what.

[DanG 1]

Here's what I propose: let people with nail clippers, knitting needles, pocket knives, machetes, and guns get on the plane. What are they going to do? Post-911, they're going to get their ass beat to a pulp. They won't get access to the cockpit, those are reinforced. Personal weapons don't pose any more threat on an airplane than they do on the street.

Explosives are a different problem, but the scanners don't solve it. Explosive sniffers have been in use for years, and don't require naked pictures or fondling. Add in behavioral profiling and a better watch/no fly list, and you'll stop 99% of threats that make it to the airport.

The other 1%? Guess what, you'll never stop them no matter what you do.

- Dan G

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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Here's what I propose: let people with nail clippers, knitting needles, pocket knives, machetes, and guns get on the plane. What are they going to do? Post-911, they're going to get their ass beat to a pulp.

Agreed! ... but can we add to that people who get on planes with skate boards and guitar cases thinking such things will fit nicely in the overheads without taking up more then their fair share of space?

[winsor 236]

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Here's what I propose: let people with nail clippers, knitting needles, pocket knives, machetes, and guns get on the plane. What are they going to do? Post-911, they're going to get their ass beat to a pulp. They won't get access to the cockpit, those are reinforced. Personal weapons don't pose any more threat on an airplane than they do on the street.

Explosives are a different problem, but the scanners don't solve it. Explosive sniffers have been in use for years, and don't require naked pictures or fondling. Add in behavioral profiling and a better watch/no fly list, and you'll stop 99% of threats that make it to the airport.

The other 1%? Guess what, you'll never stop them no matter what you do.

Gosh, that's terrifying. It makes me very, very scared.

It think it is unfair that The Government cannot make us safe as in our mothers' arms, so that we can live forever.

[DanG 1]

No kidding.

Do you have a problem with letting personal weapons (or at least things that only MacGyver could turn into personal weapons) through security?

- Dan G

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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Do you have a problem with letting personal weapons (or at least things that only MacGyver could turn into personal weapons) through security?

Okay, MacGyver-ing a nuke out of a paper-clip and some radium dialed wristwatch aside... "letting personal weapons through security"... even as pro-personal-defense-and-the-right-to-bear-arms as I am... my first blush to that is that doesn't sound like a good idea.

There's a lot of otherwise decent folks that are way stressed out for what ever reason in airports... probably worried sick that their body scan image is being uploaded as they get a coffee while on their way to their gate... that I don't think them having a gun or knife or machete would be a "good" thing.

[nigel99 577]

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Aphid... okay... I'll bite... what would you rather have had them do?

Take your word for it?

Be an expert on every possible form of swipe card produced or recently produced that may still be in use?

Sorry, but you saying its a swipe card to get into an airport and the agent asking if you have your pilot's license is reasonable. You replied you didn't have it with you. That too is reasonable.

I'm sure what YOU wanted was that YOU not be inconvenienced, but I can hear your outrage now if a bad-guy had snuck a bomb or weapon past the same TSA guys and onto the airplane you were on when an examination of something the guy working the xray machine didn't understand appeared in their wallet and hindsight showed it didn't result in a search and some questions.

Be more careful whats in your pockets next time you go through airport security. If you goof, deal with it.



Yeah, similar has happened to me. I got to toss out an old pair of nail clippers with nail file once because I forgot it was in my shaving kit when going through airport security. So what.

? I thought he said that total inconvenience was about 4 minutes and everyone felt safer as a result? It didn't come across as a gripe to me.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[kelpdiver 2]

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A short history of my posting in the SC... mostly, I just sit back and enjoy the entertainment... sometimes I make the mistake of engaging and ultimately getting called ignorant or worse when I don't agree with the PC, left, touchy feely, we-know-whats-better-for-you, I'm offended therefore what I think is of substance, hippy crowd.

[swoons] what a hero! And with tattoos, no less!

In this thread, the people "ultimately calling you ignorant or worse" represent the full political spectrum. Tell Mike he's a leftist feel gooder - it will be news to him.

Believing in the Constitution has nothing to do with PC. Of course, use of the phrase "PC" already proves laziness on the part of the writer.

If you weren't even aware that these methods wouldn't have stopped last year's incident, maybe it time for some more reading, less ranting on your part?

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

... and maybe you could come back with some tangible suggestions on what the TSA could do to catch the next shoe or underwear bomber?

[DanG 1]

Stressed out people with weapons might be a bad thing, but that's not why the TSA prevents you from carrying on anything that could be used as a weapon. They do it to prevent hijacking. Other security measures, such as reinforced cockpit doors and air marshalls, already address that threat quite well. There is no legitimate national security interest in making travellers throw away their nail clippers.

But here we are anyway.

The fact of the matter is that current TSA rules do not enhance security. That includes scanning and "enhanced pat downs". Once you give an organization power and funding, wresting it away is almost impossible. If we keep budging just one more inch (with no tangible benefit) eventually we won't have any rights in an airport at all.

At that point we'll have lost what it is about America that's worth protecting.

- Dan G

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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At that point we'll have lost what it is about America that's worth protecting.

That happened awhile ago and it ain't because of body scanners and pat-downs, but that, as they say, is a different story.

[DanG 1]

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That happened awhile ago and it ain't because of body scanners and pat-downs, but that, as they say, is a different story.

I disagree, but if you think body scanners and pat downs are violations of our rights, why be in favor of them?

To me, liberty is more important than (a false sense of) security.

- Dan G

[Unstable 9]

A few weeks ago I was in Vegas helping my brother move to a house out by Lone Mountain. A friend of his showed up with a pickup and helped us the rest of the day, and come to find out this guy is a TSA supervisor in charge of one gate (about 6-8 agents) -

So as were were moving stuff, I started asking questions and picking his brain to see how much he knew or had experienced with people flying with their rigs. I was surprised. Not only did he form coherent sentences to answer my questions, he was actually a pretty smart guy. He told us that the agents can look at the seal, he knew about the TSA letter and the 'cypres card' and everything ~ I though "Wow, if everybody were like him, flying would be a breeze!"

Then on my way back, I had to stop the agent from cutting my cutaway cable.

Maybe people are just less of retards when you get them in their own environment...

=========Shaun ==========

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

To be honest with you Dan, I don't know if I do or don't feel that body scanners and pat-downs are or aren't violations of our rights.

I've been through an airport a couple of times now where they use the back scatter version. Didn't bother me and I didn't get my junk felt up either.

As far as liberty goes, agree with you, but I think theirs worse things going on with the direction the federal government is going in this country and the apathetic majority that's enabling it, but that's what we get now that nearly half of the population doesn't pay into the public till and a good percentage of them profit from it... but, again, that's a different story (thread).

I just don't get the whole fear that someone's image might get mis-used and the slight chance that some particular TSA agent doing a pat-down is getting a woody over it as a argument against the technology or new measure in and of itself.

I do understand that there's a faction that just wants to be pissed off and outraged about "something" and the TSA is a good target.

If you want to talk about wrestling authority from the federal bureaucracy, there's a lot of potential for that outside of the TSA, but it would also mean the elimination of entitlements, which would equally and oppositely piss off some of those all bent out of shape over body scanners and pat-downs. So this is a lose-lose discussion at this point, I think.

[DanG 1]

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As far as liberty goes, agree with you, but I think theirs worse things going on with the direction the federal government is going in this country and the apathetic majority that's enabling it...

No offense, but from my perspective, your views in this thread represent that same apathetic majority.

I get that you are on the line about whether or not TSA's methods violate our rights. I'd argue that if you're on the line, you should tend toward rights over security. You should also balance the potential infringement of rights against the benefit. I believe there is a negative benefit for security, since we're allocating money for useless scanning and pat downs that could be better spent elsewhere.

Thanks for the rational discussion.

- Dan G

[winsor 236]

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... and maybe you could come back with some tangible suggestions on what the TSA could do to catch the next shoe or underwear bomber?

Get a clue from El Al. And Mossad.

[firemedic 7]

I wonder if Sky Marshalls get screened.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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... and maybe you could come back with some tangible suggestions on what the TSA could do to catch the next shoe or underwear bomber?

Get a clue from El Al. And Mossad.

You want to see outrage over infringement upon rights and liberties!!??

I'd love to take those most bent over body scanners and agressive pat-downs and make them go through Israeli airport security a few times.

They'd be running to just go through a body scanner after that.