daily TSA f#$k-up thread

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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OBTW, kelp, you're saying if I were of a certain occupation or reputation you'd listen to me as opposed to another? Which occupation or reputation would you listen to as opposed to not? Come on, that's just silly.

I'm implying that your choice of occupation has rendered you clueless about why others have issues with their naked image being in the public realm.

The white collar world is pretty uptight, and these things can be harmful. Merely having tattoos can be harmful.

[sarcasm]

OMG! I didn't know that!! Thanks so much! I am a white collar worker and I do have tattoos!! Its now so clear why things aren't going well for me at work!! Thanks so much! I'll warn all my co-workers TOMORROW that also have tattoos! I suppose I should have a conversation too with those others that have piercings and what about the few that have piercings, tattoos and are openly homosexual... I suppose I should just convince them to quit now and take up a career in reality TV, huh?

[/sarcasm]

* rolls eyes *


Anyway... okay, so if not metal detectors, body scanners and/or aggressive pat-downs, how would you stop folks from overtly or inadvertently getting through airport security with edged weapons, firearms or explosives?

I get it that you and others don't want a "nude" image of yourself in the public domain. I would agree that I wouldn't want one of me either... but I doubt anyone would find it more than humorous... but but what I don't get is your perception (extension ?) that a pseudo image of a person created using microwave Radar equates to a nude image created by taking a photo of someone naked using a film or digital camera?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Anyway... okay, so if not metal detectors, body scanners and/or aggressive pat-downs, how would you stop folks from overtly or inadvertently getting through airport security with edged weapons, firearms or explosives?

uh, my same posting covered this further, but apparently the same blind spot you've repeatedly demonstrated kicked in again.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Okay, got it, so now you're down to insulting me rather then trying to explain your point as I continue to not understand how it is you equate a millimeter radar wave generated image of you would offend you that someone else would look upon it?

Good job trying to get someone over to your side. (NOT)

Anything else that you know better for me that if I don't instantly agree with I'm ignorant?

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As to what I'm suggesting instead - no, you need to justify this one, since it wouldn't stop the xmas bomber nut, or anything at all. If it doesn't get the job done, we don't need to spend billions and our dignity to get it. And funny, the small estimated risk of getting cancer from it matches the small risk of being blown up in the sky.

We did the heavy lifting already - secure the pilot's cabin. Give them guns, along with marshalls. But nothing short of strip searches with cavity inspections would stop a bomber now. And even that won't, since people still can bring knives, razor blades (See Adam Savage), or guns in their carry on without even trying to hide them. I think there's a lot more gained to make sure someone doesn't bring their CCW sidearm into the "secure" area than feeling up your crotch.

OBTW... you're previous post DIDN'T... how would you SPECFICALLY stop folks from getting knives, razor blades or guns through security without moving to body scanners?

Okay, I stand corrected on one of your points, so I did go look see what Adam Savage had to say. So, TSA goofed, big time. Adam went through a body scanner and someone somewhere got to see his body scan image (which somehow you see as offensive as someone taking a shit on your grandma's grave... but anyway)... but they missed the razors he had in his kit. I've experienced similar, I'm just not a celebrity that can get on TV... good point, what the fuck TSA... BUT again, what would YOU do different?

I could hear you explode similarly if the requirement was for everyone to empty the contents of their luggage, carry-ons, pockets, etc. and have a TSA agent spend 10-20 minutes going through it in detail.

Ya know, there are a couple of other ways around this, but they're not very PC...

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Kinda makes you wonder...

(see attached image, SFW)

[mnealtx 0]

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Okay, got it, so now you're down to insulting me rather then trying to explain your point as I countinue to not understand how it is you equate a millimeter radar wave generated image of you would offend you that someone else would look upon it?

Good job trying to get someone over to your side. (NOT)

Anything else that you know better for me that if I don't instantly agree with I'm ignorant?

As opposed to your veiled assumptions that anyone that didn't accept the scan was paranoid?

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OBTW... you're previous post DIDN'T... how would you SPECFICALLY stop folks from getting knives, razor blades or guns through security without moving to body scannners? And don't tell me to go see Adam Savage... I could care what he pulled as a media stunt.

Ever hear of a magnetometer? You know, those things you've been walking through for years that beep when you don't take off your watch?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

I'm not being veiled about it at all.

I'm trying to get him to say what he would do SPECIFICALLY if not body scanners or pat-downs to keep someone from getting on an airplane either inadvertently or maliciously with a weapon?

Still haven't heard that, but have heard a lot TSA bashing (which I agree there's A LOT of room for) and I've been told I'm ignorant.

Yeah, I know, logic doesn't work on some. In fact, in and of itself, it offends many.


... and a magnatometer is going to find, what... METAL... what about other threats?

[mnealtx 0]

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... and a magnatometer is going to find, what... METAL... what about other threats?

You're the one that mentioned knives, guns and razors - all metal.

Can you explain how the scanner is going to see past some dude's nuts to where he's stuffed the explosives into the underwear?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[doughboyshred 0]

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I'm not being veiled about it at all.

I'm trying to get him to say what he would do SPECIFICALLY if not body scanners or pat-downs to keep someone from getting on an airplane either inadvertently or maliciously with a weapon?

Still haven't heard that, but have heard a lot TSA bashing (which I agree there's A LOT of room for) and I've been told I'm ignorant.

Yeah, I know, logic doesn't work on some. In fact, in and of itself, it offends many.


... and a magnatometer is going to find, what... METAL... what about other threats?

I already answered your question. Proper training so that current procedures are being followed properly.

Also enhanced training so that TSA agents can spot potential threats before they even make it to the security checkpoint.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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You're the one that mentioned knives, guns and razors - all metal.

No. They're not.

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Can you explain how the scanner is going to see past some dude's nuts to where he's stuffed the explosives into the underwear?

You're kidding me, right? You've read more about how they work then just on dropzone.com, right?

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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I already answered your question. Proper training so that current procedures are being followed properly.

Agreed, but as technology advances, why not use it?

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Also enhanced training so that TSA agents can spot potential threats before they even make it to the security checkpoint.

OMG! Your not suggesting profiling... are you!???!

[doughboyshred 0]

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I already answered your question. Proper training so that current procedures are being followed properly.

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Agreed, but as technology advances, why not use it?

Waste of money, accomplishes nothing more than what can already be accomplished, and invades our privacy. Are you intentionally ignoring previous responses? This has already been stated multiple times.

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Also enhanced training so that TSA agents can spot potential threats before they even make it to the security checkpoint.

OMG! Your not suggesting profiling... are you!???!

You've been trolling for a profiling response this entire time. I don't know about your past history of posting so I'm not going to go there.

What I am suggesting is that tsa agents should be specialized in knowing how to spot mannerisms that suggest suspicion. Someone that's a nervous wreck and sweating bullets should be pulled aside for additional screening as soon as they are spotted. Little old lady from Oklahoma shouldn't even be bothered.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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You've been trolling for a profiling response this entire time.

BINGO! And +1 to you for maning up and admiting that profiling is part of the answer here.

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I don't know about your past history of posting so I'm not going to go there.

A short history of my posting in the SC... mostly, I just sit back and enjoy the entertainment... sometimes I make the mistake of engaging and ultimately getting called ignorant or worse when I don't agree with the PC, left, touchy feely, we-know-whats-better-for-you, I'm offended therefore what I think is of substance, hippy crowd.

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What I am suggesting is that tsa agents should be specialized in knowing how to spot mannerisms that suggest suspicion. Someone that's a nervous wreck and sweating bullets should be pulled aside for additional screening as soon as they are spotted. Little old lady from Oklahoma shouldn't even be bothered.

Again... BINGO... but unfortunately, you can't think the word "profiling" without someone going off the deep end thinking you're talking about "race".

[mnealtx 0]

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You're the one that mentioned knives, guns and razors - all metal.

No. They're not.

I'm aware that knives can be made from ceramics - I also know that ceramic knives shatter pretty easily. So, outside of that, what ya got?

Besides the magic 'plastic gun' from Die Hard, that is.

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Can you explain how the scanner is going to see past some dude's nuts to where he's stuffed the explosives into the underwear?

You're kidding me, right? You've read more about how they work then just on dropzone.com, right?

Yes, I have - have YOU read where security experts have said that the scanner wouldn't have caught the eunuch bomber, or did you get your info from you'rejustparanoid.com?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[nigel99 572]

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... and the problem with just going through the body scanner is?

The issue boils down to security vs. privacy/liberty.

The issue boils down to the illusion of security and more budget/money for certain government agencies/private companies vs. privacy/liberty.

Terrorists willing to die for their cause should not care too much about working for a while as baggage people or airline janitors until they strike.

Terrorists planning to die for their cause should not care too much about smuggling explosives in body cavities or having them surgically implanted where they won't be picked up by the scanners.

Or they could just skip the whole plane thing and detonate their explosives in the security lines (which the Israelis don't allow to form for that reason).

I agree a terrorist hitting any major international airport prior to the security lines would cause as much disruption and attention as they would on a plane. They can even create a high density environment by having "innocent" accomplices going slowly through security and backing the lines up.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[LongWayToFall 0]

Profiling is bringing us down to the same level of scum that the fuckers who caused all this shit are.

The FACT is, that someone who was so inclined, could hide a fairly large object in their ass, or have it surgically implanted. Ceramic knives and guns, non metallic explosives complete with primaries and a trigger mechanism (all non metallic), a device which could burn and create a poisonous gas which could kill all on board. All of these things could fit in someone's ass.

THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO!!

I say stick with the old metal detector wands and light pat downs. It has worked for a long time. The 911 terrorists used what, some tiny ass knives to do what they did? The chances of 911 happening again are almost non existent. People today would go ballistic and stop at nothing to take the fuckers down, rather than think they just wanted some ransom.

How many balls do these poor TSA scanners have to look at to stop just one attack? I doubt they will ever stop one with the new machines.

Many balls divided by zero attacks stopped=Infinity balls looked at. Infinity Balls!!!!!!! Those sorry fuckers.

For this reason, when I get to the airport tomorrow I am going to refuse a body scanner if asked to do one.

[billvon 3,078]

>but what I'm not getting is what you think should be used or done as an
>alternative to body scanners and/or aggressive pat-downs . . .

Magnetometers and x-raying of bags, combined with education of security personnel. It would have caught the 9/11 hijackers if the person operating the x-ray had known what to look for.

Throwing technology at a problem is not a solution - especially if that technology would have done nothing to stop the one successful instance of terrorism we've seen in the past 10 years.

>How about some posts of alternatives to prevent another 9/11?

Education. We had all the technology and deterrence we needed to stop 9/11 on 9/11, we just didn't know how to use it.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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I'm aware that knives can be made from ceramics - I also know that ceramic knives shatter pretty easily. So, outside of that, what ya got?

What about plastics that can be used as weapons?

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Besides the magic 'plastic gun' from Die Hard, that is.

Quit being a twit and I will too.

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Yes, I have - have YOU read where security experts have said that the scanner wouldn't have caught the eunuch bomber, or did you get your info from you'rejustparanoid.com?

No, I haven't read that. Care to enligten me? What "security experts" and how do THEY propose having caught the shoe bomber or underwear bomber?

I'm paranoid... y'all are the ones afraid of pervert TSA agents groping your junk or feeling up grandma's boobies or streaming an image of you generated via backscatter x-ray scanner or millimeter wave Radar and I'm paranoid? If that's the case, we both are.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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>but what I'm not getting is what you think should be used or done as an
>alternative to body scanners and/or aggressive pat-downs . . .

Magnetometers and x-raying of bags, combined with education of security personnel. It would have caught the 9/11 hijackers if the person operating the x-ray had known what to look for.

Throwing technology at a problem is not a solution - especially if that technology would have done nothing to stop the one successful instance of terrorism we've seen in the past 10 years.

>How about some posts of alternatives to prevent another 9/11?

Education. We had all the technology and deterrence we needed to stop 9/11 on 9/11, we just didn't know how to use it.

Again, I hear your words, Bill, but I don't get your point?

Up thread, you lambaste and imply that the TSA is too ignorant to use this new technology correctly and apt to be wrought with corruption thus resulting in abuse of this new technology (i.e. leaking scanned images of people into the public domain), yet you suggest this same TSA will suddenly straighten up, grow a brain, institute some miracle education program that will solve everything without anyone ever having to fear having their junk touched or a pseudo nude image taken using a body scanner?

[aphid 0]

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I also suspect he was making rules up on the spot. Not like they'd do that or nuthin...

Truer words have never been spoken.

[rhaig 0]

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I already answered your question. Proper training so that current procedures are being followed properly.

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Agreed, but as technology advances, why not use it?

Waste of money, accomplishes nothing more than what can already be accomplished, and invades our privacy. Are you intentionally ignoring previous responses? This has already been stated multiple times.

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Also enhanced training so that TSA agents can spot potential threats before they even make it to the security checkpoint.

OMG! Your not suggesting profiling... are you!???!

You've been trolling for a profiling response this entire time. I don't know about your past history of posting so I'm not going to go there.

What I am suggesting is that tsa agents should be specialized in knowing how to spot mannerisms that suggest suspicion. Someone that's a nervous wreck and sweating bullets should be pulled aside for additional screening as soon as they are spotted. Little old lady from Oklahoma shouldn't even be bothered.

behavioral profiling and individual interviews. Who else does that?? El Al. That's who. The same airline who's security consultant said backscatter machines were a waste of money.

But Americans are too PC to accept behavioral profiling. it has the same word in it as Racial profiling. Political correctness started eroding our freedoms years ago. Now it's doing more of the same at the airport.

Try an experiment: Bring up "Behavioral profiling" in a group conversation. It won't be but a few sentences before it becomes just "profiling", and a few more sentences before someone mentions racism.

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

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I'm aware that knives can be made from ceramics - I also know that ceramic knives shatter pretty easily. So, outside of that, what ya got?

What about plastics that can be used as weapons?

http://www.coldsteel.com/nightshadeseries.html

not brittle, not a slicing edge, but a nice stabbing point. I know a police officer that used to travel with one on his person when he flew (perhaps not now) specifically because they do get through the metal detectors and one of his personal rules is to never go anywhere without a blade.

I myself accidentally carried one on a plane via carry-on several years ago.

--
Rob

[doughboyshred 0]

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Profiling is bringing us down to the same level of scum that the fuckers who caused all this shit are.

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I have read in a long time.

Now, if you added the word RACIAL to that I would agree. But to argue that randomly selecting people for intensive screening makes us safer than using profiling and behavioral science is ridiculous.

[Andy9o8 2]

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behavioral profiling and individual interviews. Who else does that?? El Al. That's who. The same airline who's security consultant said backscatter machines were a waste of money.

But Americans are too PC to accept behavioral profiling. it has the same word in it as Racial profiling. Political correctness started eroding our freedoms years ago. Now it's doing more of the same at the airport.

Try an experiment: Bring up "Behavioral profiling" in a group conversation. It won't be but a few sentences before it becomes just "profiling", and a few more sentences before someone mentions racism.

Agreed. On all points.

[rehmwa 2]

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behavioral profiling and individual interviews. Who else does that?? El Al. That's who. The same airline who's security consultant said backscatter machines were a waste of money.

But Americans are too PC to accept behavioral profiling. it has the same word in it as Racial profiling. Political correctness started eroding our freedoms years ago. Now it's doing more of the same at the airport.

Try an experiment: Bring up "Behavioral profiling" in a group conversation. It won't be but a few sentences before it becomes just "profiling", and a few more sentences before someone mentions racism.

Agreed. On all points.

absolutely

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rhaig 0]

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Many balls divided by zero attacks stopped=Infinity balls looked at. Infinity Balls!!!!!!! Those sorry fuckers.

For this reason, when I get to the airport tomorrow I am going to refuse a body scanner if asked to do one.

new angle. refuse the backscatter, and make them touch your balls. Mention "gee... I don't mind you touching my balls, but it must suck to have your job. Everyone is pissed at you and you're just doing what you're told: touching a lot of balls. I hear wal-mart is hiring..."

--
Rob