winsor 236 #1 November 20, 2010 This is an example of how carefully we pave the road to hell with our good intentions. Our purpose is, as usual, noble, but the people we task to accomplish our goals have no concept of economy and recoil at the idea of an elegant, efficient approach. As P.J. O'Rourke said, "If you think Healthcare is expensive now, just wait until it is free." BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 385 #2 November 20, 2010 Thanks for posting an interesting article. So what is the take-home message? Some will say that the government should stay out of medical care altogether. If you can't afford dialysis out of pocket, you die, too bad so sad. (Dialysis is not something you can get routinely by showing up at a hospital emergency room, so the "solution" some propose of waiting until people are critically ill, then having them show up at emergency, get treated, then leave without paying is not applicable to such a large patient population.) The article points out that the dialysis treatment field in the US is dominated by two hugely profitable companies that have used their financial/political clout to keep regulatory oversight to a minimum. Profits are maximized by using poorly trained technicians; rarely is a doctor or even a certified nurse available on site. Facilities are supposed to be inspected and recertified regularly, but in fact many years go by between inspections (in some cases no inspections in seven years!). I think a big part of the message is the danger of unregulated capitalism in the health care "marketplace". Combine lack of competition with lack of incentive to maintain quality control (no regulatory oversight, so no meaningful enforcement of already minimal safety standards), and add in pressure to maximize profits, and this is what you should expect to get. I think it's instructive that every other developed country manages to provide this care, at lower cost and with better outcomes. Despite the knee-jerk American reflex to automatically assume all things American are the best possible way of doing things, it would be instructive to look at how other countries manage to out-perform us in every measure except profit to private cororations. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #3 November 22, 2010 we don't HAVE a healthcare program in this country we have a SICK care program..... poor choices are made constantly by people who maybe unknowingly,,, eat All the wrong foods... over indulge, and do NOt excersize nearly enough.. The "fast food industry" while starting to come around, now,,, has helped to create the obesity crisis over the last 20 or 30 years.... People are waaay too easily influenced about what to eat, or drink, and quick and easy,,, is certainly NOT always the best for us... We've eliminated recess and High intensity Phys Ed programs, from our schools.... Kids' idea of Play.... no longer consists of running around outside but simply hunting under the sofa, for the remote control... who can we blame???? anyone who recognizes the seriousness of the situation, yet does little to make any changes. Individuals, Parents, Educators,, BIG Business... ADVERTISING agencies,,, and of course, the local , state, and federal Govts..... I fear it's gonna get worse.. before it gets better... and i wouldn't want to be working in the medical care field,, for all the money in the world.. Doctors, who start out with all the best intentions, and optimism, and energy, certainly have to be scratching their heads,, when they see, patient after patient who has put himself or herself, into bad physical shape... through poor choices...day after day... not sure what the answer is..... capiltalism coupled with our "freedoms"... leaves little room to make the needed common sense decisions and changes.... since absolutely NOBODY today,,, wants to be, "told what to do ".... jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,133 #4 November 22, 2010 >People are waaay too easily influenced about what to eat, or drink, and >quick and easy,,, is certainly NOT always the best for us... Yep. We currently have several government organizations, including the FDA, urging people to eat healthier - while at the same time the Agriculture Department urges people to eat more cheese. >who can we blame? Us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firemedic 7 #5 November 22, 2010 I agree, there are drugs available in both locations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #6 November 22, 2010 Quote Yep. We currently have several government organizations, including the FDA, urging people to eat healthier - while at the same time the Agriculture Department urges people to eat more cheese. You say that like eating cheese is bad for you. cheese has a part in a healthy diet. The problem isn't that people are told to eat the wrong things, it's that they are not taught what their body needs and how their body responds to excesses of certain types of nutrients or more importantly, how it responds to the lack of nutrients. I can't tell you how many people I've seen who think they can lose weight by consuming less than half the amount of calories their body needs. They lose weight for about 2 weeks then complain because they've "plateaued" and have no energy and are sleepy all the time.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,133 #7 November 22, 2010 >You say that like eating cheese is bad for you. It is, for most people. For example, a single slice of Domino's Pizza (referred to as 1/4 of a small pie on their nutrition charts) before the government got involved had 11.8 grams of saturated fat. Now a single slice of their more cheesy pizza has 16.5 grams of saturated fat. The US RDA limitation on saturated fat for an average 35 year old female is 16 grams. That means that one slice of the new, cheesier pizza puts her over the limit. And our government is helping to formulate and advertise that change. Seems like a poor use of federal funds to me. (Although surely a boon for Domino's and dairy farms.) >cheese has a part in a healthy diet. So is animal fat. But again, eating it in the amounts that we do is bad for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #8 November 22, 2010 Quote>You say that like eating cheese is bad for you. It is, for most people. For example, a single slice of Domino's Pizza (referred to as 1/4 of a small pie on their nutrition charts) before the government got involved had 11.8 grams of saturated fat. Now a single slice of their more cheesy pizza has 16.5 grams of saturated fat. The US RDA limitation on saturated fat for an average 35 year old female is 16 grams. That means that one slice of the new, cheesier pizza puts her over the limit. and if our bodies reacted immediately at the end of the day (daily allowance) you would have a point. My point is that one or 2 slices of pizza a week isn't going to adversely effect your health if you eat well the rest of the week. Quote >cheese has a part in a healthy diet. So is animal fat. But again, eating it in the amounts that we do is bad for you. yes, that is my point. I see that we are on the same side here. Moderation is key. People don't know what their bodies do when they eat an excess of certain kinds of fats on a daily basis. If they did, they wouldn't indulge daily. Once a week? twice? depends on what the rest of your dietary week looks like. So to clarify, eating cheese isn't bad for you. Eating an excess of cheese is bad for you. But then again, eating lean meat is bad for you if you eat too much of it. Drinking water is bad for you if you drink too much of it. I figured moderation was understood. Apparently not.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,133 #9 November 22, 2010 >My point is that one or 2 slices of pizza a week isn't going to adversely >effect your health if you eat well the rest of the week. Agreed. However, I don't see the benefit of the US government pushing cheese consumption via pizza. I mean, arsenic is an important trace nutrient, and arsenic deficiency causes health problems for some people. But if US water systems were making people sick because of too much arsenic, would it be a good idea for the US government to launch a million-dollar "Arsenic - it's what your body craves" campaign? >Moderation is key. Also agreed. Spending millions on trying to get people to eat higher fat foods does not contribute to that, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #10 November 23, 2010 Quote Also agreed. Spending millions on trying to get people to eat higher fat foods does not contribute to that, IMO. agreed. spending millions of dollars on educating people on how their bodies actually consume the food that they eat or what their bodies do when they starve themselves would be a much better use of the money.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
