Tell me again why alcohol should be legal and pot shouldn't be.

[beowulf 1]

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Do you think the crimes associated with meth and crack are due to the use of it, or the cost asssociated with obtaining it?

Crack is not particularly expensive. But abusers are incapable of generating any real income (crack whores being the pathetic exception).

I have met people who used crack and were capable of working and generating income. Of course a lot of their money went to buying crack. But who am I to say anything. A big part of my income goes to support my skydiving habit!!

[beowulf 1]

I don't see any good in recreational drugs either. I don't use tobacco and only drink in moderation. But I don't see any progress in the way the illegal drug use is being dealt with. It seems obvious to me that there isn't any way to stop the use of these illegal drugs, especially the way they are being dealt with now. All we are doing is fueling the crimes and filling up our prisons by maintaining the illegal status of these drugs.

[pirana 0]

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>Have you ever been around someone on meth? I have and it can be real ugly.

Yes, unfortunately, and I agree it can be ugly. But overall we had far more fights, assaults, arrests and injuries due to alcohol than to meth.

Where do you hang-out? Sounds like a rough crowd to me!


Chuck

Waiting for another reference to the DZ ghetto.

That was jhilarious.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[masterrig 1]

Perhaps, your crystal ball is working better than mine. I guess, it just scares me to death to see dope legalised. I know, the arguement about booze and dope. The bottom line is just what you said... moderation. Like that's gonna happen. Maybe, the best thing to do is just legalise all of it and see how it all shakes-out. It just drives me nuts, to think that some self-centered dope users caused the mess we're in.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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>Have you ever been around someone on meth? I have and it can be real ugly.

Yes, unfortunately, and I agree it can be ugly. But overall we had far more fights, assaults, arrests and injuries due to alcohol than to meth.

Where do you hang-out? Sounds like a rough crowd to me!


Chuck

Waiting for another reference to the DZ ghetto.

That was jhilarious.

Chuckie

[Southern_Man 0]

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Perhaps, your crystal ball is working better than mine. I guess, it just scares me to death to see dope legalised. I know, the arguement about booze and dope. The bottom line is just what you said... moderation. Like that's gonna happen. Maybe, the best thing to do is just legalise all of it and see how it all shakes-out. It just drives me nuts, to think that some self-centered dope users caused the mess we're in.


Chuck

From what I can tell it is already practically legalized in California and some other states with medical Marijuana (Michigan). The sky doesn't seem to be falling there.

I personally am in favor of full legalization of everything but recognize that is so far from where we are that an incrementalist approach is most likely to work. I would also be willing to be convinced otherwise if societal effects were shown to be getting worse. I just can't see a downside to changing this law and seeing what happens.

Of course I live in a conservative state on the other side of the country so this practically effects me not at all at this point.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[beowulf 1]

I don't know that my crystal ball is any better then yours. I am just trying to look at the problem objectively. I think it's pretty safe to say what we are doing now is not working.
We are not slowing down the number of people using illegal drugs. We really aren't slowing down the smuggling of illegal drugs. Hell we can't even stop drugs from being smuggled into prisons!
We are spend an insane amount of money on banning these illegal drugs and failing miserably.

Option A: Spend more money and continue to fail miserably at reducing illegal drug use and the crimes that go with them.

Option B: Legalize the drugs and deal with and manage the root problem, recreational drug addiction.

I like Option B, why? It removes the black market that was created by banning the drugs. I think the black market is what is responsible for most of the crimes.

[masterrig 1]

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Perhaps, your crystal ball is working better than mine. I guess, it just scares me to death to see dope legalised. I know, the arguement about booze and dope. The bottom line is just what you said... moderation. Like that's gonna happen. Maybe, the best thing to do is just legalise all of it and see how it all shakes-out. It just drives me nuts, to think that some self-centered dope users caused the mess we're in.


Chuck

From what I can tell it is already practically legalized in California and some other states with medical Marijuana (Michigan). The sky doesn't seem to be falling there.

I personally am in favor of full legalization of everything but recognize that is so far from where we are that an incrementalist approach is most likely to work. I would also be willing to be convinced otherwise if societal effects were shown to be getting worse. I just can't see a downside to changing this law and seeing what happens.

Of course I live in a conservative state on the other side of the country so this practically effects me not at all at this point.

I just had a wild thought! Legalizing dope, could ligitimise the cartels. They are already set-up as producers. The gangs are big in distribution. Entrepreneurs could open shop, get with their local gang... bada-bing! The government taxes it like booze and tobacco. It's a win-win!


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

I thought, demand created the market?


Chuck

[Southern_Man 0]

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I just had a wild thought! Legalizing dope, could ligitimise the cartels. They are already set-up as producers. The gangs are big in distribution. Entrepreneurs could open shop, get with their local gang... bada-bing! The government taxes it like booze and tobacco. It's a win-win!


Chuck

Seems unlikely to me. They will be taken over by people with better business sense now that these people will not have to resort to illegality and violence to set up shop. It will be like the ABC store or the grocery store selling cigarettes. Sure, there are a few criminals involved in that but it is nothing like the current illegal drug trade.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[beowulf 1]

It did create the market. Demand always creates the market. If there is no demand for a product then there is no market. Figure out how to eliminate the demand for illegal drugs and the drug dealers and smugglers will go out of business.


Banning drugs turned it into a Black market and brought in all the violence and crime.

Either we manage the market or the outlaws manage the market. Either way it still remains.

[masterrig 1]

Like I said, it was a wild thought.


Chuck

[freethefly 6]

In 1970, Pittsburgh Pirate Dock Ellis pitched a no-hitter while tripping on LSD in San Diego. Performance enhancing drug?

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/06/11/forty-years-later-time-to-celebrate-dock-ellis-lsd-no-hitter/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[masterrig 1]

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In 1970, Pittsburgh Pirate Dock Ellis pitched a no-hitter while tripping on LSD in San Diego. Performance enhancing drug?

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/06/11/forty-years-later-time-to-celebrate-dock-ellis-lsd-no-hitter/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14

I wonder what that ball looked like him as it was headed toward the batter?
I wouldn't say that that is a very good recommendation for acid.


Chuck

[Andy9o8 2]

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I wouldn't say that that is a very good recommendation for acid.

Uh, he pitched a no-hitter. Sounds like an excellent recommendation.

[masterrig 1]

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I wouldn't say that that is a very good recommendation for acid.

Uh, he pitched a no-hitter. Sounds like an excellent recommendation.

That's what he says! I'm not believing it. For him to say that, really sends a bad message. It's like the ol' boy told the police officer when he was stopped for possible, 'drunk driving'; "I drive my best when I've had a 6-pack!"


Chuck

[Andy9o8 2]

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I wouldn't say that that is a very good recommendation for acid.

Uh, he pitched a no-hitter. Sounds like an excellent recommendation.

That's what he says! I'm not believing it. For him to say that, really sends a bad message. It's like the ol' boy told the police officer when he was stopped for possible, 'drunk driving'; "I drive my best when I've had a 6-pack!"

OK, I did a quick Google search for "doc ellis LSD no hitter". 407,000 hits. Sift through them for yourself.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&&sa=X&ei=NabQTM66I8Wblgfvp-iCBg&ved=0CBIQBSgA&q=dock+ellis+lsd+no+hitter&spell=1&fp=2304850557947867

[kelpdiver 2]

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I wouldn't say that that is a very good recommendation for acid.

Uh, he pitched a no-hitter. Sounds like an excellent recommendation.

his career record was 138-119, fairly plain. He threw the no hitter 2 years into his 11 years in the majors. Surely he tried to repeat the acid experiment.

[masterrig 1]

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I wouldn't say that that is a very good recommendation for acid.

Uh, he pitched a no-hitter. Sounds like an excellent recommendation.

That's what he says! I'm not believing it. For him to say that, really sends a bad message. It's like the ol' boy told the police officer when he was stopped for possible, 'drunk driving'; "I drive my best when I've had a 6-pack!"

OK, I did a quick Google search for "doc ellis LSD no hitter". 407,000 hits. Sift through them for yourself.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&&sa=X&ei=NabQTM66I8Wblgfvp-iCBg&ved=0CBIQBSgA&q=dock+ellis+lsd+no+hitter&spell=1&fp=2304850557947867

Just because it's on the internet...

Must've been som weak shit. I've been around people on acid and most of them couldn't find their ass with both hands.


Chuck

[freethefly 6]

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I've been around people on acid and most of them couldn't find their ass with both hands.

In 1975, I took 2nd place in the schools spelling bee. I dropped a hit of white blotter that morning, not realizing it was the day of the spelling bee. Had I won, I would had gone on to compete in the district spelling bee for Hazelwood Central High School. Only a few people knew I was tripping hard. I was extremely focused on what I was doing and completely in control.
Millions of people have used LSD at one time in their lives and they are no worst for doing so.
Francis Crick discovered the DNA Helix while tripping on LSD.
If you have never tried LSD, you cannot reasonably argue it's effect on a persons intelligence. Although, I have not done acid since the 70's, I can argue that having done so has never had any negative effect on my intelligence. Straight "A" student in high school. Recently graduated from a community college Phi Theta Kappa.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[masterrig 1]

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I've been around people on acid and most of them couldn't find their ass with both hands.

In 1975, I took 2nd place in the schools spelling bee. I dropped a hit of white blotter that morning, not realizing it was the day of the spelling bee. Had I won, I would had gone on to compete in the district spelling bee for Hazelwood Central High School. Only a few people knew I was tripping hard. I was extremely focused on what I was doing and completely in control.
Millions of people have used LSD at one time in their lives and they are no worst for doing so.
Francis Crick discovered the DNA Helix while tripping on LSD.
If you have never tried LSD, you cannot reasonably argue it's effect on a persons intelligence. Although, I have not done acid since the 70's, I can argue that having done so has never had any negative effect on my intelligence. Straight "A" student in high school. Recently graduated from a community college Phi Theta Kappa.

I never said one word about the intelligence of anyone taking acid. In one post, I did mention a girl friend of mine, an honor student at the time, took a header out a second floor dorm window, after taking acid.


Chuck