Tell me again why alcohol should be legal and pot shouldn't be.

[beowulf 1]

Well the way I see it...

It would no longer be worth it for the cartels to smuggle drugs anymore, they would go out of business. Street dealers would be out of business, so no territories to protect and fight over. No one being arrested for possesion of illegal drugs, freeing up police to pursue other crimes.

The early crime reduction would be due to trading street dealers for clinics and putting the cartels out of business. Longer term I think we would see cheaper drugs and fewer addicts committing crimes to support their habits. Meanwhile it would make it easier to treat those interested in breaking their addicton. I really don't think we will see a rise in drug addictions due to legalization. This doesn't mean it would be legal to smoke crack or shoot up in public. We would still want laws to keep those things private. We don't want anyone under the influence of drugs opperating any machinery including driving cars.

[masterrig 1]

Interesting.


Chuck

[skipbelt 0]

in the open market what is cheaper , the cheapest liqueur or moonshine ?

[doughboyshred 0]

We actually may see abuse rates go down if we shifted all of the funds spent on the drug war towards education and rehabilitation.

I would like to see a program where anyone that wants to kick an addiction can check in to a full in patient treatment program at no charge.

Again, I think the question we should be asking is how do we lower the negative impact of drug and alcohol abuse. It's clear that our current system of demonizing drugs and incarcerating users, while glorifying alcohol and celebrating drunkeness are not successful.

[doughboyshred 0]

moonshine is more expensive than md 20/20 and night train. At least around here it is. And, I only know one person that can get moonshine. I know a lot of people that can get pretty much any drug you could want, and weed is about the easiest thing to get. Hell, it's easier than alcohol since most dealers deliver now.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I would like to see a program where anyone that wants to kick an addiction can check in to a full in patient treatment program at no charge.

Which drug addiction are you talking about? Hopefully not weed because that would be an awful waste of money setting up weed treatment programs. Weed is a mental addiction not a physical one. It is one of the easier addictions to rid yourself of. I know because I have gone from being a daily wake and bake smoker to someone who was clean and all I needed to do was to take myself away from the temptations. There was no withdrawal.

Now if you are referring to other drug addictions, well those are a completely different can of worms.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[skipbelt 0]

i think if you compare proof ( moonshine 80+ ) to equal proof (md 20/20 <20) you will find moonshine far less expensive. there's no taxes ! same would be true of nearly any drug !

[rhys 0]

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Would you really want to see meth and crack legalized?

Yes, becaue the crima associted with it would dissapear and the only people that would get hurt by ot would b those silly enough to get involved in it.

Do you think the crimes associated with meth and crack are due to the use of it, or the cost asssociated with obtaining it?

It is pople that dolt have crack that commit crimes, not people that have easy access to it without financial difficulty.

it is a harsh drug that destroys lives,but so is alcohol.

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Hemp, has much more benifits to our society and ecology than , cotton, crude, plastic etc...
________________________

How do you figure? Please, enlighten us!

you guys really do not now much about you own history do you?

a few historical benifits

some modern benifts.

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Food: Hemp seed provides nearly complete nutrition with all 10 essential amino acids, all 4 essential fatty acids (EFAs) in the ratio recommended by health experts, and over 30% protein in its most easily digestible forms, making hemp the ideal protein, and ideal food for human consumption.

Feed: Hemp meal provides all the essential protein that livestock require, yet doesn't require any antibiotics to digest. When cows eat corn they cannot digest it, needing antibiotics to keep from being sick, which makes the antibiotics less effective on the humans that consume the beef. Hemp is also an excellent animal bedding for horses.

Body Care: Because of hemp oils high EFA content, especially GLA, hemp helps cells to communicate to rebuild cell membranes, which keeps the skin from getting dry by enabling skin cells to hold onto moisture in their natural lipid layers.

Oil: Hemp oil can be made into non-toxic paints, varnishes, lubricants, and sealants. The paints last longer, and the sealants are better absorbed by wood.

Fuel: Hemp biomass can produce electricity from sulfur-free charcoal, as well as ethanol, yet these industries will be the last to develop due to the high value of hemp food. Hemp can easily be made into biodiesel fuel as well.

Cars: European plants are making auto panels from hemp based composites that are biodegradable, half the weight of, more durable, and safer than fiberglass counterparts.

Plastics: Hemp hurds and fiber have over 50% cellulose, the building blocks of plastics. Biodegradable hemp plastics could reduce landfill waste and display unique strength characteristics. Oil based plastics produce biproducts of sulfur and carbon monoxide and do not biodegrade.

Paper: Hemp pulp paper doesn't require toxic bleaching chemicals and lasts hundreds of years longer than paper made from trees. It is stronger, and can be recycled many more times than tree paper. An acre of hemp can produce as much pulp as an acre of trees over a 20 year growing cycle!

Homes: Hempcrete homes, a mixture of hemp and lime, are fire, water, and rodent proof, with excellent elasticity, strength and breathability, which cuts energy costs. Washington State Univ. found hemp board to be three times stronger than plywood.

Clothes: Hemp is among the longest, strongest, most elastic, and most durable fibers in nature. Hemp is stronger, more durable, softer, more UV protective, warmer, and won't mildew or rot like cotton fiber, which requires 25% of the worlds crop chemicals.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[doughboyshred 0]

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i think if you compare proof ( moonshine 80+ ) to equal proof (md 20/20 <20) you will find moonshine far less expensive. there's no taxes ! same would be true of nearly any drug !

Regardless, moonshine is extremely difficult to find while illegal drugs are easy to find.

[stayhigh 2]

why do they steal???
since they been up for four days and masturbating and not going to sleep, and have extremely irritable mood.
the employer will probably say that "dude, we can't have that shit going on here, you are fired."

now you are out of job but since you now have lot of meth friend who also is out of job for the same reason,
will come up with some plan to get more Meth.
and easiest way is to steal.
don't know the number exactly but over 50 percent of petty crime in portland area has something to do with Meth.

and I will say that chance of that meth smoking neighbor RAPING your mom or sister is very high as well.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[Andy9o8 2]

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i think if you compare proof ( moonshine 80+ ) to equal proof (md 20/20 <20) you will find moonshine far less expensive. there's no taxes ! same would be true of nearly any drug !

Regardless, moonshine is extremely difficult to find while illegal drugs are easy to find.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't looked it up); but, especially nowadays, doesn't moonshine occupy an ever-shrinking niche market (both generally and geographically) compared to other illegal drugs?

[Southern_Man 0]

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Regardless, moonshine is extremely difficult to find while illegal drugs are easy to find.

Not where I live.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Southern_Man 0]

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Rather than tax-payer money going to prisons, would it go for clinics to help addicts? Would the criminal element really be out of the equation?


Chuck

Lots and lots of tax payer money already goes to pay for clinics and treatment. You would just be subtracting the money that goes to prisons and police. Perhaps you would need to add a bit for more treatment but not nearly as much as you would subtract for prisons and police.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[davjohns 1]

I'll pop in on this one - I don't care what you want to put in your body. I don't want to finance my government telling you what to put in your body or trying to force you to do things the way the government wants regarding your body.

Here's the rub - you have to take responsibility for your decisions. You have to do your drugs in a manner that doesn't harm anyone else. You have to support yourself and anyone else you take responsibility for or create. You have to stay off public assistance, public medical care and all else to keep from costing me money for your decision.

People don't seem to realize that as long as we have welfare, social security, medicaid, HAP, etc. the government can direct our lives arbitrarily. If it provides our healthcare, it can surely require us to report for our mandatory exercise sessions run by them. It can tell us what to eat, how much to eat and what drugs we can take.

And it doesn't have to make much sense. We gave up the right to make decisions when we gave up the responsibility for the consequences.

Something to consider.

Dropping back out now.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[masterrig 1]

I have no idea. I haven't had a drink in 15-yrs.


Chuck

[Andy9o8 2]

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Regardless, moonshine is extremely difficult to find while illegal drugs are easy to find.

Not where I live.

As I just said: niche market.

[billvon 3,090]

>since they been up for four days and masturbating and not going to
>sleep, and have extremely irritable mood.
>the employer will probably say that "dude, we can't have that shit going
>on here, you are fired."

>now you are out of job but since you now have lot of meth friend who also
>is out of job for the same reason,
>will come up with some plan to get more Meth.

All that is possible, but even more likely with alcohol. No employer wants a drunk employee, but they will still need money to buy alcohol for them and their drunk friends.

And when it comes to risks to your friends, the odds of a drunk partyer raping (or killing) your sister are a lot higher than someone on meth doing the same.

[masterrig 1]

Have you ever been around someone on meth? I have and it can be real ugly.


Chuck

[billvon 3,090]

>Have you ever been around someone on meth? I have and it can be real ugly.

Yes, unfortunately, and I agree it can be ugly. But overall we had far more fights, assaults, arrests and injuries due to alcohol than to meth.

[masterrig 1]

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>Have you ever been around someone on meth? I have and it can be real ugly.

Yes, unfortunately, and I agree it can be ugly. But overall we had far more fights, assaults, arrests and injuries due to alcohol than to meth.

Where do you hang-out? Sounds like a rough crowd to me!


Chuck

[billvon 3,090]

>Where do you hang-out?

_Did_ - that was a long time ago back in college. What happened there was, I thought, pretty instructive.

When I started, the drinking age was 18. Rush parties had beer at them as a matter of course. People got drunk but it was rarely a problem. There were some heavy drinkers, and a few got sent to a substance-abuse expert we had at the school chapel.

Then in 1984 they raised the drinking age to 21 with a grandfather clause. I made it just under the limit. Since all freshmen were now not legal, alcohol at rush parties was banned, as was most alcohol at school events.

But this being college, people immediately started trying to get around the ban. Drinking moved from the dorms and frats to the rooms and bars. We had half a dozen people arrested for drunk driving because off-site parties became more common. We had a few people with serious drinking problems who would get really drunk in their rooms, then come out swinging. (For one guy in particular, more alcohol meant more violence, and he finally got arrested and kicked out of the housing system.)

Before the ban, our parties would occur thusly:

1) Beer and punch would be procured.
2) Party would start. Campus police would come by to scope things out.
3) Drinking would start.
4) Frat guys would show up and want lots of beer. We'd generally find ways to limit them to moderate amounts of beer, mainly by having one tap.
5) People would start getting drunk over a few hours (hard to get drunk fast on Bud Light.)
6) The first people would start heading back to rooms as other people showed up. A few of us would stay sober to keep an eye on things and talk to the campus police, who were always more cooperative when the person they were talking to wasn't drunk.

The parties we had after the ban would generally go like this:

1) "Fruit punch" with clever bags of grain alcohol hidden in the bottom would be created.
2) Party would start, campus police would come around, check "fruit punch" and whatnot.
3) Frat guys would drink heavily at their places and then get to the party; fights would sometimes ensue, since they'd arrive at peak drunkenness.
4) Around 10pm the bags would be punctured and people would start drinking a 50% alcohol mixture.
5) People would start getting sick after drinking way too much in a short time.

Overall we had way more trouble with alcohol after it was banned.

Only problem we ever had with meth was one guy who got sent to the hospital for experimenting with it. That's not really a fair comparison though because it had only been made illegal a few years previously, and this particular guy was a bit of a chemist and had gotten inspired by its illegality.

[wmw999 2,560]

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1) "Fruit punch" with clever bags of grain alcohol hidden in the bottom would be created.

Not a new idea. My mother told me about the famous MIT punch (she grew up in Boston)

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 2]

MIT nerds were always the roughest closet bad-asses. Sort of a Trojan Horse.... thing.

[masterrig 1]

I think, we went to different schools...together! In my 'day', it was beer and booze. The 60's were just getting going and a little pot and acid was showing-up. There was a lot of expiramenting with acid. During that time, a girl, very close to me but attending another school, honor student, took a hit of acid and wound-up taking a header out of a two story dorm room. I believe, it was that incident that really turned me against drugs. There were other incidences with friends and acquaintanences. My wife worked 25-yrs. as an investigator and worked withe DEA. She has told me stories that were not too pleasant. I just don't see any good in drugs.


Chuck

[kelpdiver 2]

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Do you think the crimes associated with meth and crack are due to the use of it, or the cost asssociated with obtaining it?

Crack is not particularly expensive. But abusers are incapable of generating any real income (crack whores being the pathetic exception).