Hidden Voter Preference Could Put Pot Initiative Over the Top in California Amid Mind-Boggling Racial Arrest Disparities

[Andy9o8 2]

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All you guys arguing black arrest proportions...give it a rest. You're suggesting that cops, on the whole, are saying, "Oh, he's white so we won't bust him for the pot. This other guy is black so we will bust him."

Actually, you're changing the meaning of the message, and then arguing against the re-phrased message.
I've spent my whole life studying and working in criminal justice. For the most part, if the cops find drugs (including pot) on people they stop, they bust them for it, generally regardless of race. They don't give more "free passes" to white guys they find carrying than non-white guys they find carrying.

That being said, the simple fact is that non-white/non-Asian people get initially stopped, and then searched, by the cops at a higher proportional rate than white or Asian people do. Sometimes it's for a good reason, and sometimes it's not, but it does happen that way. In any event - that, in turn, translates into higher rates of discovery of drugs, which translates into higher rates for drug arrests and convictions for blacks and Hispanics in the US.

[scruffy 0]

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All you guys arguing black arrest proportions...give it a rest. You're suggesting that cops, on the whole, are saying, "Oh, he's white so we won't bust him for the pot. This other guy is black so we will bust him."

I don't buy that.

It may not be selectively busting people, but if you take a look at that article I posted above you'll see the incidence of searches and frisks for minorities is absurdly higher than it is for whites. While the same amount of people may be carrying more drugs, if the police search one group disproportionately higher than the other, they will have a disproportional amount of arrests.

Draw your own conclusions about why rates of convictions are higher and sentences are longer. I'd hope it's simply that since blacks generally occupy a lower SES than whites they just can't afford to get anything but an overworked incompetent public defender and not the alternative that judges just enjoy filling prisons with blacks.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[Andy9o8 2]

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overworked incompetent public defender

Hold your horses there, pardner. Gotta interject here to correct this common misconception. I've practiced as a criminal prosecutor, as a criminal defense attorney and as court system staff in several jurisdictions. I've also written on and taught criminal justice; I'm well familiar with criminal justice as it is practiced throughout the US.

For the most part, public defenders, although overworked, are some of the most well-trained and highly-skilled criminal defense trial attorneys in the country. I have occasionally seen incompetent criminal defense attorneys in court over the past 35 years. I'd say that 98% of them were private attorneys who had never previously worked either as PDs or DAs. If you or someone you love ever gets charged with a serious crime, you better hope to God your attorney either is a public defender or has gained some seasoning as one.

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ETA: Having said this, the rest of your post is spot-on!

[wmw999 2,589]

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I have occasionally seen incompetent criminal defense attorneys in court

Come to Houston; we have 'em. No public defenders -- the court just assigns someone from a pool the pleasure of defending someone.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[scruffy 0]

Thanks for the criticism on that part of my statement, I think the issue of competency actually would be a fun topic to do some research of the literature on now. I should probably know better than to make blanket statements based on popular conceptions at this point.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[Andy9o8 2]

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I have occasionally seen incompetent criminal defense attorneys in court

Come to Houston; we have 'em. No public defenders -- the court just assigns someone from a pool the pleasure of defending someone.

Most of the incompetent ones I've seen are just that: "court-appointed private counsel" who might know how to draft a lease or administer an estate, but have absolutely zero training at all in criminal practice. It provides a facade of "represented by counsel", but not the reality of it. It's like trusting a dermatologist to single-handedly surgically repair someone's shattered knee. How would you expect that's likely to turn out?

It is absolutely inexcusable that in the 21st Century the fourth-largest city in the US has no professional public defender's office.

[turtlespeed 226]

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overworked incompetent public defender

Hold your horses there, pardner. Gotta interject here to correct this common misconception. I've practiced as a criminal prosecutor, as a criminal defense attorney and as court system staff in several jurisdictions. I've also written on and taught criminal justice; I'm well familiar with criminal justice as it is practiced throughout the US.

The above alone does not mean that you are competent though.

I mean, look at Dub-ya, he has been in politics most of his life. He has even been POTUS.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,589]

You're a baaaaaaaaaaaad turtle. You must be severely disciplined

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 226]

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You're a baaaaaaaaaaaad turtle. You must be severely disciplined

Wendy P.

Really?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[dgskydive 0]

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A new report was released from the Drug Policy Alliance and the California Conference of the NAACP on October 22, on the targeting of African Americans for low-level marijuana possession in California. The report reveals that an astonishing 850,000 arrests for possession of small amounts of marijuana have been made in California over the past 20 years. The people arrested were disproportionately African Americans and Latinos, mostly young men, and that from 2006 through 2008, "police in 25 of California's major cities have arrested blacks for low-level marijuana possession at four, five, six, seven and even twelve times the rate of whites."

New York Times columnist Charles Blow explains these shocking statistics are the product of a "callous political calculus."

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Thats because whites stay home and smoke. I bet if they broke those numbers down to "where" the person was busted. We would see that the majority that were arrested for weed, were arrested smoking outside in a public place, or had it in their car when pulled over.

Dom