California's Proposition 19. Legal Weed!! What's everyone think?

[Amazon 7]

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What is this flashback thing you're referring to? Sadly I am an expert in the long term effects of a bunch of illegal drugs when I was younger and I can say I'm still waiting for a flashback. Never had one.

And, I don't think we're talking about legalizing purple microdot here.

Oh shush.... I mean he saw Reefer Madness once... and obviously knows all there is to know about all drug induced effects from that fine documentary.

Uh huh.

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Uh huh

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YUP that is one of your best responses yet.. its obvious from the rest of your responses on this thread that you need to spend a hell of a lot of money and buy a clue, because none of them are even close to any semblance of reality on the issue.

[turtlespeed 226]

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What is this flashback thing you're referring to? Sadly I am an expert in the long term effects of a bunch of illegal drugs when I was younger and I can say I'm still waiting for a flashback. Never had one.

And, I don't think we're talking about legalizing purple microdot here.

Oh shush.... I mean he saw Reefer Madness once... and obviously knows all there is to know about all drug induced effects from that fine documentary.

Uh huh.

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Uh huh

.

YUP that is one of your best responses yet.. its obvious from the rest of your responses on this thread that you need to spend a hell of a lot of money and buy a clue, because none of them are even close to any semblance of reality on the issue.

So you are saying that you are an expert on LSD, and other hallucanagenic drugs?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

Obviously a WHOLE lot more knowledge about it than your propoganda induced hallucinations about them...

DUDE... I was in HS in the 1960's I knew a HELL of a lot of people who were using psychedelics as well as many other psychoactive drugs.. and even some chem majors in college who were making it. ( in the Early 70's at the school I was at they were either making drugs or bombs)

ALL of the bullshit propaganda you keep spouting.... is just that.

Please quit making yourself look so..... so.... well you know

[freethefly 6]

A large number of people had experimented with LSD over the years, since Albert Hofmann first tripped on April 16,1943. I tried it on a number of occasions in the 70's and have never experienced a flashback. In fact, I always felt great and ready to go the next day. To my knowledge, LSD flashbacks are more myth than anything else as LSD completely leaves the body in a short period of time.

From Albert Hofmann, LSD, My Problem Child;

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Another surprising aspect of LSD was its ability to produce such a far-reaching, powerful state of inebriation without leaving a hangover. Quite the contrary, on the day after the LSD experiment I felt myself to be, as already described, in excellent physical and mental condition.

http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/hofmann_albert/hofmann_albert.shtml

http://www.psychedelic-library.org/child1.htm

Interesting that Hofmann used LSD up until his death at age 102 with no apparent ill effects to his mind or body. He was a brilliant scientist, if not a genius.

Bringing LSD into a discussion on whether marijuana should be legal is a bit far reaching of a thin limb to hold onto as they are two completely different drugs.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[pirana 0]

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One the one hand, people in general, have difficulty accepting all of life on life's terms and therefore seek some form of mood altering substance as an insulator.

Or they find some good oogie-boogie version of bizarre beliefs to make themselves comfortable with the real world.

Sometimes there are oogie-boogies in the real world.

2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

Provide an example of real world oogie-boogie; that is, some observed event for which there is evidence that it actually happened, preferably repeatable, and for which the explanation requires a belief in magic or mysticism.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RonD1120 62]

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One the one hand, people in general, have difficulty accepting all of life on life's terms and therefore seek some form of mood altering substance as an insulator.

Or they find some good oogie-boogie version of bizarre beliefs to make themselves comfortable with the real world.

Sometimes there are oogie-boogies in the real world.

2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

Provide an example of real world oogie-boogie; that is, some observed event for which there is evidence that it actually happened, preferably repeatable, and for which the explanation requires a belief in magic or mysticism.

Hmm! I see you do not understand what an oogie-boogie is. I suggest readings from the works of Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Fritz Perls or the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Consider the Id, Ego and the Superego or the Emotions, the Mind, or the Will. Then ask yourself, why are mood altering substances required?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[pirana 0]

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like saying since there is lots of Budweiser and Mogen David around nobody will ever buy Heineken or a a fine Bordeaux.

Heineken is the equivalent of ditch weed. Hell, they make it smell like rotten beer - on purpose. Any better example?

I should not have used a brand name; it obscurred my point.

Different people like all kinds of different varieties of all kinds of different things. You, and probably lots of other people, don't like Heineken. I, and probably lots of other people, don't like Budwieser. But somehow they both remain on the market.

As long as there is demand (purchasing power) for variety, there will be variety supplied. It doesn't matter how many people don't like any specific variety; what matters is that enough people like something enough that suppliers are incented to bring them to market.

Even when a product is illegal, this holds true. The experience of past prohibition bears this out. Even when alcoholic beverages were illegal, there was demand for bathtub gin and fine Cognac. In fact, with legalization, bathtub gin pretty much disappeared because the price of much better booze came way down. So the statement by someone earlier that legalization will result in all available pot being ditchweed is absurd.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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Hmm! I see you do not understand what an oogie-boogie is. I suggest readings from the works of Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Fritz Perls or the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Consider the Id, Ego and the Superego or the Emotions, the Mind, or the Will. Then ask yourself, why are mood altering substances required?

Oogie-boogie is intentionally fabricated bullshit that someone creates because they are either afraid to say they do not know, or because the evidence that is available contradicts their predetermined agenda.

Maybe our definitions of oogie-boogie don't match. To me it is when people invoke imaginary friends, astrology, supernatural powers, ghosts & goblins, planetary allignments, virgin births, flying reindeer, etc, etc as an explanation for something.

So, give me an example of an event for which the cause is oogie-boogie.

BTW, I've never said the substances are required. Experimental/recreational is the standard beginning; with some, for one reason or another, falling into addiction. Not all users are addicts.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RonD1120 62]

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Hmm! I see you do not understand what an oogie-boogie is. I suggest readings from the works of Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Fritz Perls or the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Consider the Id, Ego and the Superego or the Emotions, the Mind, or the Will. Then ask yourself, why are mood altering substances required?

Oogie-boogie is intentionally fabricated bullshit that someone creates because they are either afraid to say they do not know, or because the evidence that is available contradicts their predetermined agenda.

Maybe our definitions of oogie-boogie don't match. To me it is when people invoke imaginary friends, astrology, supernatural powers, ghosts & goblins, planetary allignments, virgin births, flying reindeer, etc, etc as an explanation for something.

So, give me an example of an event for which the cause is oogie-boogie.

BTW, I've never said the substances are required. Experimental/recreational is the standard beginning; with some, for one reason or another, falling into addiction. Not all users are addicts.

We are on the same page. One exception, in the first sentence change intentionally to unintentionally. Furthermore, to the person perceiving the oogie-boogie it is not bullshit. It is real.

Maya - the illusion of reality. Everybody has their own. We attempt communication with those whom we share like aspects of our Maya.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Butters 0]

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The first thing the Lord showed me was in reference to marijuana. Namely, it is a corruption of the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Than why did God create it after his kind?

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"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good." Genesis 1:11-12

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[turtlespeed 226]

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Oogie-boogie is intentionally fabricated bullshit that someone creates because they are either afraid to say they do not know, or because the evidence that is available contradicts their predetermined agenda.

Actually he is the main Bad Guy in The Nightmare Before Christmas.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RonD1120 62]

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The first thing the Lord showed me was in reference to marijuana. Namely, it is a corruption of the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Than why did God create it after his kind?

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"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good." Genesis 1:11-12

He told me, Apr 83, it was a corruption of my Holy Temple and He took away all desire for mood altering substances. That was good enough for me.

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Nightingale 0]

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Than why did God create it after his kind?

Just because it's here doesn't mean you should smoke it. Digitalis is here, but that doesn't mean eating it is a good plan. Both have their uses, though.

[happythoughts 0]

I think we should accept that it is so widely consumed and that legal prohibition is as counter-productive as it was for alcohol. The religious concerns need to be disregarded and common sense needs to be applied. We need to move to the form of regulation applied to alcohol.

[Butters 0]

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Than why did God create it after his kind?

Just because it's here doesn't mean you should smoke it. Digitalis is here, but that doesn't mean eating it is a good plan. Both have their uses, though.

My point is that one shouldn't use the Bible to condemn it ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[normiss 898]

Testing puffing and driving

[Nightingale 0]

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My point is that one shouldn't use the Bible to condemn it ...

My point is that it shouldn't matter whether or not the Bible condemns it. The law should permit one choose whether or not to use it as long as one isn't endangering a third party, just like we permit one to choose whether or not to use alcohol even though some religions prohibit it. If you think it's wrong, don't do it, and feel free to say why, but allow others the right to make their own choices on the matter.

[rehmwa 2]

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If you think it's wrong, don't do it, and feel free to say why, but allow others the right to make their own choices on the matter.

good philosophy in general

You got my vote. I'll build a few yard signs for you.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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If you think it's wrong, don't do it, and feel free to say why, but allow others the right to make their own choices on the matter.

good philosophy in general

You got my vote. I'll build a few yard signs for you.

Screw the Governator's job, Nightingale for Prez in 2012!!!

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[doughboyshred 0]

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The law should permit one choose whether or not to use it as long as one isn't endangering a third party,

I support legalization of all drugs, but that argument just doesn't fly.

Use of any drug potentially endangers a third party, especially alcohol. If not endangering a third party was the requirement then all drug use would need to be illegal.

[billvon 3,120]

>Use of any drug potentially endangers a third party, especially alcohol.

?? How does use of alcohol endanger anyone else?

(Now, of course, if you try to drive drunk, then you are endangering other people. But that's because you were stupid enough to get behind the wheel after drinking, not because alcohol forces you to endanger other people.)

[Nightingale 0]

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The law should permit one choose whether or not to use it as long as one isn't endangering a third party,

I support legalization of all drugs, but that argument just doesn't fly.

Use of any drug potentially endangers a third party, especially alcohol. If not endangering a third party was the requirement then all drug use would need to be illegal.

Yes, this is why driving under the influence of a mind-altering substance is illegal. You can't drive under the influence of alcohol. You can't drive under the influence of many prescription drugs. Driving under the influence of marijuana will also be illegal.

[turtlespeed 226]

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The law should permit one choose whether or not to use it as long as one isn't endangering a third party,

I support legalization of all drugs, but that argument just doesn't fly.

Use of any drug potentially endangers a third party, especially alcohol. If not endangering a third party was the requirement then all drug use would need to be illegal.

Yes, this is why driving under the influence of a mind-altering substance is illegal. You can't drive under the influence of alcohol. You can't drive under the influence of many prescription drugs. Driving under the influence of marijuana will also be illegal.

Is there a way to immediately test for the substance to see if you are under the influence, if you pull someone over or after the driver runs over and kills someones kid?

They have that for Alcohol.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[doughboyshred 0]

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>Use of any drug potentially endangers a third party, especially alcohol.

?? How does use of alcohol endanger anyone else?

(Now, of course, if you try to drive drunk, then you are endangering other people. But that's because you were stupid enough to get behind the wheel after drinking, not because alcohol forces you to endanger other people.)

People that regularly use alcohol and other drugs cost society on many levels, therefore endangering our financial well being. That's just one example.

Alcohol and other drugs contribute greatly to physical and sexual assaults.

Alcohol and other drugs contribute greatly to the spreading of std's through risky sexual behavior.

The list goes on. Any drug and alcohol use can be damaging to society. That is why education should be the focus in regards to reducing that usage.

[billvon 3,120]

>People that regularly use alcohol and other drugs cost society on many
>levels, therefore endangering our financial well being. That's just one
>example.

That's true, depending on how you measure 'cost.' If it's loss of productivity, loss of employment, police involvement etc then there's a strong correlation between alcohol (over)use and that sort of cost. Of course, lack of education incurs those sorts of costs as well, but it wouldn't quite be accurate to say that lack of schooling endangers third parties.

>Alcohol and other drugs contribute greatly to physical and sexual assaults.

If you changed that to "the use of alcohol greatly increases your chances of being involved in a physical or sexual assault" then I'd agree.